Golf Mag Joe Passov's Best 18 Holes Around the World

[Josh Tarble]

This is ridiculous.

Joe Passov sees around 120 new courses per year.  Are you reading that?  Can you comprehend doing that?

The only thing crazier than this unfortunate list is the stuff you are spouting about Joe Passov.

Bart

That makes it more frustrating that his list(s) (other than this one too) have the standard fare included.  If you're seeing 120 courses a year, surely there is something new there.

[George Pazin]

This is ridiculous.

Joe Passov sees around 120 new courses per year.  Are you reading that?  Can you comprehend doing that?

The only thing crazier than this unfortunate list is the stuff you are spouting about Joe Passov.

Bart

That makes it more frustrating that his list(s) (other than this one too) have the standard fare included.  If you're seeing 120 courses a year, surely there is something new there.

Why?

The best are the best for a reason, no? Do you expect them to change frequently? Is there a reason you think newer offerings are better?

[Josh Tarble]

This is ridiculous.

Joe Passov sees around 120 new courses per year.  Are you reading that?  Can you comprehend doing that?

The only thing crazier than this unfortunate list is the stuff you are spouting about Joe Passov.

Bart

That makes it more frustrating that his list(s) (other than this one too) have the standard fare included.  If you're seeing 120 courses a year, surely there is something new there.

Why?

The best are the best for a reason, no? Do you expect them to change frequently? Is there a reason you think newer offerings are better?

I do agree that some of these holes are the very, very good...but if they aren't changing, why even put out a list.  Why not highlight something else?  I guess that's more my point.

But really, would you consider 18 at Shadow Creek or 17 at Sawgrass the best of the best? And I like 18 at Pebble, but might not even say its the best hole on the course.

[George Pazin]

But really, would you consider 18 at Shadow Creek or 17 at Sawgrass the best of the best? And I like 18 at Pebble, but might not even say its the best hole on the course.

I can't say, haven't had the pleasure. As a matter of fact, I think I go o-fer for the list, sadly. I've walked the 18th at Pebble, haven't played it. I have invites for a few others , haven't been able to take advantage.

I love your first point - why put out a list list this? I'd love to see something more along the lines of "18 new and interesting holes for 2012", but I'm guessing we're not the target audience for a list like this.

[Josh Tarble]

But really, would you consider 18 at Shadow Creek or 17 at Sawgrass the best of the best? And I like 18 at Pebble, but might not even say its the best hole on the course.

I can't say, haven't had the pleasure. As a matter of fact, I think I go o-fer for the list, sadly. I've walked the 18th at Pebble, haven't played it. I have invites for a few others , haven't been able to take advantage.

I love your first point - why put out a list list this? I'd love to see something more along the lines of "18 new and interesting holes for 2012", but I'm guessing we're not the target audience for a list like this.

I've only played a couple as well, but when I think of great holes Shadow Creek doesn't immediately pop up.  I could be wrong though.

I would think something totally out of the ordinary might even turn more heads at this point.

[Terry Lavin]

You gotta give Travellin' Joe credit for having the stones to include a hole from Ventana Canyon on a best in the world list.

[Greg Ohlendorf]

I've watched Joe rate a golf course. The guy takes copious note, looks at all the angles, and sees more courses in a year than most guys see in a decade. Whether this is the top 18 or not, doesn't matter. I've seen 14 and they are pretty darn good.

And by the way, Joe is a really good guy, so questioning his reason for picking this list based on who he works for is way off base. It's his opinion, and I think he has the basis for picking what he did.

Greg

[cary lichtenstein]

I played all but one, the Stoneforest which looks amazing!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason Thurman]

I don't think 18 at Pebble is the best hole on the course either, but if that walk doesn't stir you a bit, then you're just not playing the same game as I am. Sometimes there's more to a hole than just its architecture (and the architecture on 18 is pretty damn good. It might be the 4th or 5th best hole on its own course, but it'd be the best on almost any other course in the world).

Does anyone really forget their experience playing 17 at Sawgrass, 16 at Cypress, or 17 at The Old Course? Is it possible that the reason we always talk about 10 at Riviera on this site is because it's genuinely great? And isn't the 18th at Harbour Town one of the all time great holes in the context of its routing?

Did you really expect this list to be a definitive Top 18? If I had played every hole on this list, I'd be a pretty happy golfer.

[Steve Lapper]

I think that Joe guy is a crock of crap. He looks kind of like Stump the Schwab but I think to get most of his recommendations he goes and googles. I don't think he knows any out of the way under the radar type of places. Everything he puts in Golf Magazine looks like something from the Convention and Visitors Bureau of wherever he's writing about.

#1.....I have it from a most reliable source that this list was submitted to GOLF.com as "The 18 MUST PLAY Holes for a Traveling Golfer"...NOT Joe's BEST 18 in the world!...sloppy or incompetent editing turned into something it was NEVER intended to be and had the unfortunate effect of twisting an otherwise informational pictorial into a proverbial dart board.

#2 AND SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY.....you, Sam Morrow, found it necessary to take the very low road of an ad hominem attack on Joe Passov, a person you don't know, have likely never met, and haven't the vaguest clue about. You purposely elected to attack a golfing journalist who has graciously taken the time to be interviewed on this site and whose passion is not an iota less than those who've posted and perused here for years .  

For the record, I know Joe reasonably well (as do many others here who used to make regular contributions to this site before they witnessed the slide of the DG into a cesspool of personal and vindictive denigrations). Joe is no politician or ladder-climber. Instead, he's a classy guy who respects everyone around him and wants nothing more than to further the highest interests of golf architecture.

He runs GM's Top 100 panelist ballot with a fair and even hand and is wise enough to avoid appointing petty-ante Johnny two-bit raters who think having played a # of top 50's buys them any credibility. He keeps it a non-profit center and gives every panelist wide latitude to craft their own ballot.

Joe has seen and played more courses, and spent more time with meaningful contributors to GC architecture, than most. My guess is that his morning constitutional flushes and forgets more about the subject than someone like yourself will ever have learned.

You, and the others who so handily take a swipe at Joe, owe him a public apology, as you've so casually diluted this place with your venom and incompetence.

[Michael George]

Sam - your attack on Joe Passov is completely baseless, as you don't know him, don't have a clue what his job entails and don't have a clue what his gca knowledge is.   I enjoy people that have the guts to criticize things on the site, but you have to know something about what you are criticizing before you do it.

Re: the list, I find it hard to believe that no course at Bandon Dunes has one of the top 18.  Bandon Dunes #16, Pacific Dunes #4 or #13, Old MacDonald #7 or #16.  Plus, no Long Island course - no NGLA, Shinny, Friars Head, Sebonack, etc.....  Surely some of these holes are better than those listed.

[Michael Goldstein]

Steve, whilst I stand by my original comment that this is not Joe's best work, when you say that it was intended to be a list of the top 18 MUST PLAY holes - that makes far more sense to me.

Joe obviously has a vast amount of knowledge about GCA and that is very very cool. Maybe he should just play closer attention to his editors!!

[Terry Lavin]

World-class slap from the Slapper!

[Martin Toal]

Seems like 'the travelling golfer' doesn't get outside the US as much as he should.

[Jud_T]

I apologize to Joe.  I didn't realize he worked for a magazine that was so utterly incompetent.

[Adam Clayman]

There's a shift in the label on the list and the printed justification.

It  goes from 18 holes you should see to being labelled the best.

Label it "18 holes you should see before you die" and the list works.

George, I can't speak for Bart but I think he meant 120 new to him courses. Not new courses.

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm glad Merion East #11 is shown.  Other holes there sometimes get the glory, but to me, #11 is the standout.  Strategy, amazing design, beauty, and history.  A truly great golf hole.

[Sam Morrow]

I think that Joe guy is a crock of crap. He looks kind of like Stump the Schwab but I think to get most of his recommendations he goes and googles. I don't think he knows any out of the way under the radar type of places. Everything he puts in Golf Magazine looks like something from the Convention and Visitors Bureau of wherever he's writing about.

#1.....I have it from a most reliable source that this list was submitted to GOLF.com as "The 18 MUST PLAY Holes for a Traveling Golfer"...NOT Joe's BEST 18 in the world!...sloppy or incompetent editing turned into something it was NEVER intended to be and had the unfortunate effect of twisting an otherwise informational pictorial into a proverbial dart board.

#2 AND SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY.....you, Sam Morrow, found it necessary to take the very low road of an ad hominem attack on Joe Passov, a person you don't know, have likely never met, and haven't the vaguest clue about. You purposely elected to attack a golfing journalist who has graciously taken the time to be interviewed on this site and whose passion is not an iota less than those who've posted and perused here for years .  

For the record, I know Joe reasonably well (as do many others here who used to make regular contributions to this site before they witnessed the slide of the DG into a cesspool of personal and vindictive denigrations). Joe is no politician or ladder-climber. Instead, he's a classy guy who respects everyone around him and wants nothing more than to further the highest interests of golf architecture.

He runs GM's Top 100 panelist ballot with a fair and even hand and is wise enough to avoid appointing petty-ante Johnny two-bit raters who think having played a # of top 50's buys them any credibility. He keeps it a non-profit center and gives every panelist wide latitude to craft their own ballot.

Joe has seen and played more courses, and spent more time with meaningful contributors to GC architecture, than most. My guess is that his morning constitutional flushes and forgets more about the subject than someone like yourself will ever have learned.

You, and the others who so handily take a swipe at Joe, owe him a public apology, as you've so casually diluted this place with your venom and incompetence.

Steve,

I don't like his stuff, he might be a nice guy, heck he might be the nicest guy in the world but I still don't like his stuff. As for his morning poops I can't comment on those but I will give you credit you don't like person attacks yet the last word of your post is incompetence.

[Joel_Stewart]

Let's try and keep it civil.

The ratings and rankings are subjective and everyone has their thoughts. 

Although I question Shadow Creek and Sawgrass as well, those courses have had a profound impact on golf and golf architecture especially in the modern era.