Phoenix Munis in decline...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Big deficit, outsourcing or course closings/reduced summer play possible:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/20120904phoenix-golfs-decline-proving-costly.html

[Jason Topp]

Hard to imagine.  I wonder how many rounds Papago did when I was going to ASU in the 80's.  I played many 3 hour nines with about 6 groups waiting at the first par three.  I wound up playing more at Ken McDonald because of pace of play.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jason,

These numbers are exclusive of Papago. That's an entirely different case of government malfeasance.

[Phil McDade]

Steve:

The story you referenced included Papago.

Curious -- where's the malfeasance?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Phil,

The Papago story has been discussed here over the years. Here's a good summary:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46999.0.html

[Phil McDade]

Steve:

Thanks for the link.

Is Papago "managed" differently than the rest of the PHX muni's? I ask only because I once played Encanto, and like you have heard good things about Aguila, and may be spending some time in Phoenix soon.

The muni situation there strikes me as similar to what's probably occuring with lots of other muni's around the country, although probably exacerbated in the Phoenix area given the number of course options available there.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Phil,

Papago is a sad story. The AZ Golf Ass'n and their grandiose plans for a CCFAD have ruined the reputation of the course. The economy didn't help either. The course was renovated and it's a cleaner looking course now but the cost was very high. The demolition of the old clubhouse also didn't help . It's now just another discounted course on golf now.

Aguila was recently renovated too. It's a fine course but I haven't played there since the work was done.

[Pete_Pittock]

$14 million dollars in debt for Phoenix. $10 million of that is for the Papago CCFAD project that didn't work out. If they could sell Papago that seems to be the way out of their dilemma. And fire or vote out the people who cause the problem.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pete

I doubt that the course would bring anything close to 10M. There was talk that ASU would take over management of the course as they may develop their Karsten course but that's pure speculation.

[Matt Ingraham]

I remember a few of the city courses being dumps when we would play them in junior golf tournaments 16, 17 years ago.  Maryvale was always the worst.  Papago was always the best muni we played.  It is too bad reading about how Papago has fallen on hard times.



 

[Matthew Petersen]

There have been similar stories of the munis in Tucson really struggling.

In both instances, it's the sort of inevitable result of the growth of privately-owned, public accessible courses and the way prices to play them have come down. The munis in both Tucson and Phoenix basically run the gamut from miserable to maybe pretty good at best. But there are so many other public golf options that are either the same cost as the munis or just slightly more expensive, and most such courses are more interesting and in better condition. So the problem spirals.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It took awhile but tv news just did this story:

http://www.kpho.com/story/19568251/phoenix-considering-eliminating-or-selling-city-golf-courses

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Public Hearings are now scheduled:

http://whatcounts.com/dm?id=308F06D79B1E348279680926A8C7859189E7104DC34D57F4