Encouraging walking

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are also clinically obese too. Unless you weigh less than 250 lbs...which I highly doubt.

http://www.jodohonline.com/dietpills/obesity_chart.htm

I'm obviously obese, but the question one must ask themselves personally is...do I want to deprive myself of golf just because I have a hard time being on my feet for 4 hours straight combined with a 5 mile walk??

P.S.  I played a round just last weekend in 2:15...no way in hell I come even close to that if I was walking.

Single? What took you so long?
2 hours for 18 walking is no sweat. With the right partner, it is also doable as a twosome.

As far as being obese is concerned, I have already pointed out that it is part of my act to shame young fit guys into getting out of their carts.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Carts can be much faster than feet.
...

Yep, and walking can be much faster than carts.

Speed of play is primarily dependent on the habits, sensitivities, and interests of the players. Not the course. Not the transportation methodology. Not the B & I.

People!

I'm just speaking mechanically. No one can play golf faster afoot than they can in a cart.

Sorry Jim that's just not true. Have you not heard of speed golf? I met a member of my club that would shot in the 70s in just over an hour. Better take the governors off those carts if you want to keep up.

[Kalen Braley]

Speed golf Garland?  Really?

You're talking about an almost completely different sport.  Speed golf is based on score and finish time....and I don't know if I've met anyone on this site who could play a requlation course in a hour, with the exception of John Moore.

I'm wondering why golf can't just be enjoyable.  4 guys playing at a decent pace, enjoying a nice summer day.  If you hate golf so much that you want to be over and done in 2 hours, then why play it?

[Garland Bayley]

Speed golf Garland?  Really?

You're talking about an almost completely different sport.  Speed golf is based on score and finish time....and I don't know if I've met anyone on this site who could play a requlation course in a hour, with the exception of John Moore.

I'm wondering why golf can't just be enjoyable.  4 guys playing at a decent pace, enjoying a nice summer day.  If you hate golf so much that you want to be over and done in 2 hours, then why play it?

If you are so disinterested in golf that you enjoy playing at over a 4 hour pace, why do you bother. You can enjoy a nice summer day without hindering golfers from playing their game on a golf course.

I played in a group on Monday with some other non time wasters. We constantly waited on tees and often on approaches. We finished in four hours, and I thought that was abysmally slow. Two of us were playing a match play tournament round. Still faster than the "casual" golfer.

[Ed Oden]

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating taking away carts or forcing people to walk.  But I do think there is some potential merit to promoting the benefits of walking.  What is the downside to riders if walking is encouraged?  There is a big difference between promotion and a mandate.  The Tee it Forward initiative is designed to show golfers that playing from a set of tees commensurate to their skill level can enhance their enjoyment of the game.  The PGA and USGA don't require golfers to tee it forward, they just expose them to it.  Why couldn't similar initiatives work with walking?

[Matthew Sander]

Ed,

Shepherd's Crook Golf Course in Zion, IL is the rare public (municipal) course that provides carts, but actually promotes walking. Their website states that walking is not only permitted, but encouraged.

Now, I have no idea what effect (if any) this approach has on their ride/walk ratio. I've only played the course once, so I don't have a feel for their typical customer. Sven Nilsen has quite a few rounds up there, so maybe he can weigh in regarding what he has seen from the other golfers at SC.

[PCCraig]

Seriously. How "clinically obese" do you have to be in order to be physically unable to walk a golf course? I've seen plenty of big men (and women) get around 18 holes walking.

[Garland Bayley]

Seriously. How "clinically obese" do you have to be in order to be physically unable to walk a golf course? I've seen plenty of big men (and women) get around 18 holes walking.

Kalen hits the severely obese mark on his chart and he has walked and played a grudge match against me at Wine Valley and at Chambers Bay. The difference is that once my clinical obese a** beat his severely obese a** at Chambers Bay, I walked and played a second 18 with Mark Saltzman. So clinically obese does not even keep you from doing 36 hole days.

[John Kavanaugh]

Lame comment deleted.

[mike_beene]

Push carts have been the best thing we ever did.Shop gets 10 a round which is a lot more profit than they get out of carts,I am sure.It has greatly upped the number of walkers from my viewpoint.

[Jim_Kennedy]

2 hours for 18 walking is no sweat. With the right partner, it is also doable as a twosome.

I think you're delusional, probably from walking too fast.  


Ed,
Not a new idea, but I know a place that has something called "The Health League" that consists of 9 holes, all walking, on a weekday evening. They all head in for a bit of socializing and a light supper afterwards.

There used to be a group of guys at my course in the late '50s/early '60s that had a vehicle (something like a doodlebug) which they used to carry everyone's clubs around the course. There might be up to 10 of them playing on some evenings, with one guy driving the 'cart' around.

Today that same idea could be modified into a golf cart with/a  4-bag attachment driven around by one of the inexperienced caddies. So for something like $15 or $20 per man a 4-some could have the benefits of walking without carrying and the club would see some revenue from the cart rental, along with some bucks for the 'cabbie'.      
 
 

[Sean_A]

I don't have a problem with carts.  I could care less if a folks want to ride.  What bugs me are the cart paths.  To encourage walking I would do two things.  First, tear up cart paths and make carts weather dependent.  This would also have the secondary benefit of members perhaps wanting their courses watered less so they can ride more.  Second, have a fleet of three wheel push trolleys for hire. 

Ciao

[Wayne_Kozun]

We have three wheel push trolleys at my club and some members use the battery powered Lectronic Kaddys as well.  Unfortunately ridership continues to increase.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Ed,
     I wonder if this club in the Charlotte area still charges a trail fee to walk? (Discouraging walking, IMO)

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42256.0.html

     I don't remember naming names but this was a club off 74 going to Monroe and was mentioned in Ron Green Jr's blog, 2009?
I don't remember the club's name now since it was that long ago.
      I can only think of clubs discouraging walking. All about the money. Cart paths only is the biggest encouragemnet I can think of.
      (I walk 95% of the time.)

[Jason Thurman]

I just don't think it's a private club's job to encourage walking for the sake of members' health. Putting in a fitness room or adding healthier options to the menu are much more efficient initiatives. If members prefer to ride, they're the ones paying the bills.

On the other hand, the only justification for government-subsidized municipal golf I can think of is recreation and its effect on public health. I'd love to see more municipal courses offer preferred tee times for walking or something like that. Many already offer very favorable walking rates that help build a strong walking culture. Municipal courses are the only places I've ever seen more walkers than riders on any consistent basis. If private clubs want to build the same, I'd think they should take a look at the models followed by municipal courses that are loaded with walkers on any given morning.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Municipal courses are the only places I've ever seen more walkers than riders on any consistent basis. If private clubs want to build the same, I'd think they should take a look at the models followed by municipal courses that are loaded with walkers on any given morning.

This depends on the culture of the specific club but I would say that this is definitely not the case at private clubs in the Toronto area.  Very few of our clubs really have caddie programs but at most of the old-school private clubs the majority of golfers walk, often with push/pull carts.  Toronto GC by default puts your bag on a push cart.  I would say that there is a strong correlation between the age of the club and the percentage of walkers - the clubs that are from the golden era (or earlier) have far more walkers then newer clubs.  Clubs that are less than 30 years old seem to have far more walkers, despite having a younger membership.

[mike_beene]

Weather is a huge factor in my part of the world.A Saturday morning in the fall,winter or spring has half the people walking.In the summer only a few.98 degrees is fine but when you get over body temperature I am afraid to walk.Most seem to agree.

[Andy Stamm]

Push carts have been the best thing we ever did.Shop gets 10 a round which is a lot more profit than they get out of carts,I am sure.It has greatly upped the number of walkers from my viewpoint.

What's the cost of a push cart vs. a cart?

[archie_struthers]

 :-[O :'(O

It's not easy to make a go of the business without the cart revenue, sorry to say.  In our area  Jersey Shore mwe have to mandate carts for prime time  or face some real $$$$$ issues.

It's sad , but only private , private clubs that can charge big dollar numbers or are member owned can afford to allow walking at all times, and I am sorry it is the real truth ,!

[Bill_McBride]

Today that same idea could be modified into a golf cart with/a  4-bag attachment driven around by one of the inexperienced caddies. So for something like $15 or $20 per man a 4-some could have the benefits of walking without carrying and the club would see some revenue from the cart rental, along with some bucks for the 'cabbie'.      
 
 

The Robert Trent Jones International club outside DC (site of first two President's Cups) has those 4-bagger carts, driven by a caddy who takes care of the foursome.  Pretty good option.

[Bill Seitz]

The best way to encourage walking I can think of would be to get rid of carts. No carts = no riding. You could keep a few on hand for people that are medically unable to walk a golf course, but otherwise just get rid of them all together. If they are leased (usually a percentage of new carts are rented every year) let the leases run out over time, slowly waning the membership off using carts ("sorry sir, we're all out of carts.") If carts are needed for a Monday outing, rent them and push the cost onto the group outing.

Sure, you'll loose members. But you'll gain a bunch too. Plus, the golf course would be in significantly better shape.

Really, Pat?  I definitely agree that if a club changes to walking only, it will lose members.  I honestly don't believe it will gain any, and certainly not "a bunch".  I can see a portion of the membership at a place like, for example, Ballyneal enjoying the fact that the club is walking only, but is that really a deciding factor for people that choose to join?  Is the presence of carts at a club a deal breaker for a lot of people?  I just don't see it.

I just spent Labor Day weekend walking 36 holes a day at a club that allows carts.  For all but one of my rounds, everyone in our group(s) walked.  The other people on the course who chose to ride did not affect my enjoyment of the weekend in the slightest.  I just don't see how being walking only is something that would drive a great deal of membership.  And for the record, the course was in just about perfect condition.  Other than some visible cart track lines, I don't believe the carts had much if any impact on the course conditions. 

[Carl Johnson]

I just don't think it's a private club's job to encourage walking for the sake of members' health. Putting in a fitness room or adding healthier options to the menu are much more efficient initiatives. If members prefer to ride, they're the ones paying the bills. . . .

I come close to this position.  I like to walk (now at age 70 using a motor caddy) and only rarely do not.  Example can help.  Today three of us older members played, two using motor caddies and one riding a cart.  (Played leisurely, 3 hrs., 20 min., with no one in front or behind us.)  On hole thirteen the rider began to ask us about how we got our motor caddies, and what they cost.  He also asked to try mine for a while.  He's said he's now thinking of getting one.  I think it's a better game, walking.  The tempo is right.  I would be unhappy with my club if they put in a trail fee or surcharge for walking (but there's no chance they will).  But, there are certain members of our club who because of age or infirmity could not play at all if they had to walk.  They are accomodated, as they should be.

On the other hand, while walking must certainly be healthier than riding, the amount of cardiovascular fitness you get walking is minimal compared with running, swimming, or hard cycling (if you have the time for it) for your health.

[Sven Nilsen]

Ed,

Shepherd's Crook Golf Course in Zion, IL is the rare public (municipal) course that provides carts, but actually promotes walking. Their website states that walking is not only permitted, but encouraged.

Now, I have no idea what effect (if any) this approach has on their ride/walk ratio. I've only played the course once, so I don't have a feel for their typical customer. Sven Nilsen has quite a few rounds up there, so maybe he can weigh in regarding what he has seen from the other golfers at SC.

Matt:

Probably not the guy to ask right now about SC.  I walked off the course after 11 holes last time I played after the group in front of me (a) didn't wave me through and (b) were driving their carts past the cart line and up to and around the greens.

My bet is the majority of folks take carts, but keep in mind that we're talking about a course that borders the cheese curd state.  The fact they get anyone walking at all is amazing.

Sven

[Matthew Sander]

Matt:

Probably not the guy to ask right now about SC.  I walked off the course after 11 holes last time I played after the group in front of me (a) didn't wave me through and (b) were driving their carts past the cart line and up to and around the greens.


Sven

Good thing I mentioned SC!

[mike_beene]

Andy,I think you spend 20 dollars for half a cart and a push cart is 10. There is very little cost in the cart upkeep.It is irritating that I have a push cart at home I can't use. However,that was the compromise it took to get the push carts.