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Joe_Tucholski

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I did not see any ____ out there.
« on: September 04, 2012, 02:32:08 AM »
I'm reading Reminiscences of the Links and after reading the section on Shawnee did a search on the course.  The statement I did not see any Tilly out there was in a thread or two.  I've also seen the statement with other courses and other architects like MacDonald, Raynor, Flynn, Thomas and others.

Clearly I don't have enough experience on courses from these architects to just notice there isn't much ____ left.  That being said what is it people are looking at when theses statements are made.  Is it compared to old aerials, is it bunkering styles, is it particular features, is it a general feel or what?

Adam Clayman

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Re: I did not see any ____ out there.
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 10:56:57 AM »
My sense it's a combo of feeling and what's actually on the ground.

I will cite Wakonda Club in Des Moines Ia. as a glaring example of removing any semblance of the original architect. The bold features signature of Langford and Moreau are either shrouded in rough and/or trees, or been obliterated by a modern architect.

All done with the best of intentions, but with no regard in what made the place so special to begin with.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

SL_Solow

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Re: I did not see any ____ out there.
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 11:13:20 AM »
Several years ago there was a thread which announced the "discovery" that Green Acres in Northbrook Il. was a Tillinghast and pronounced it a h"hidden gem".  If Tillinghast ever was there (questionable) I defy anyone to find anything that is left.  As for gem status, that is in the eye of the beholder.  Perhaps i have something in my eye.

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re: I did not see any ____ out there.
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 01:15:16 PM »
Same with Philmont North.  I think it was presented here that it was Willie Park, Jr, despite the club claiming it's Flynn.  

I didn't see any Flynn out there at all.  

Look at Joe's thread and pictures again.  

I think, when we look at the pictures as compared to design characteristics, you see a different use of bunkering at Philmont than you do at Flynn courses.  The greens sit slightly differently on the land.  You see some blind tee shots at Philmont, I am aware of only a limited few from Flynn.  There is a different look to the way the fairways sit on the land, and if one was to look at other Park courses such as Woodway, one sees a lot more similarity with Philmont than if one were to look at Huntingdon Valley and compare it to Philmont.  

From a 2-d aerial on google maps, the holes look one way, but when seen through on-the-ground pictures, the holes just look completely different than anything Flynn ever did.  Look at the album for yourself; there's little to no resemblance to anything Flynn ever did at Philmont. 

And, my understanding is there's NO hard evidence Flynn did design work, it's just "oral history", which, we all know, can run the gamut of being accurate to being speculative at best.  
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 01:19:51 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

David Cronheim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I did not see any ____ out there.
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 01:31:40 PM »
Several years ago there was a thread which announced the "discovery" that Green Acres in Northbrook Il. was a Tillinghast and pronounced it a h"hidden gem".  If Tillinghast ever was there (questionable) I defy anyone to find anything that is left.  As for gem status, that is in the eye of the beholder.  Perhaps i have something in my eye.

I played GA this summer and agree. There wasn't much that struck me as Tillinghast. Of course, I'm willing to concede that so much can change over time that a course can become unrecognizable. We've seen that on half the courses profiled by GCA on the main site and on this board.
Check out my golf law blog - Tee, Esq.

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