[Josh Tarble]

The thing with my cell phone is that it actually allows me to play more frequently...

If I can get out for 4 hours on weekday morning, I am able to answers emails or urgent calls.  I try as hard as I can to not use it, but by allowing me to be a bit more mobile I can get more rounds in.

The weekend is a totally different story.  I completely turn off all electronics and leave it in the car most of the time.  The best rounds are when you can totally focus on the course and nothing else.  But during the week it allows me to play more...and that's never a bad thing in my opinion.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Josh, et. al,

Has the receipt or placing of any phone calls improved your play on the golf course ?

[Martin Toal]

RJ,

Well put.  Now that you mention it, it's not the cell phones that bother me ... it's the people who imagine they are so important that they have to have them!

Tom,

I think you are missing the point.  It has nothing to do with self-importance--at least in my case.  It has everything to do with my responsibilities being more important than a leisure activity.  Only a self-important tool would consider his need to get away from the rat-race more important than someone's duty to others.  

With respect, that is a load of sanctimonious claptrap.

Duty to others? When you step on a golf course, your responsibility is to your playing partners and others using the course.

If your "duty" is more important than playing golf, go do your duty. Don't spoil my precious leisure activity because you need to be able to tell someone to try turning it off and back on again, or pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

I have a job which attracts out of hours calls, and a family too. Neither of these is uncommon in this day and age. I presume the same dutiful people are happy to answer a call in church on Sunday too. After all, duty is more important. If not, please explain the hypocrisy.

[David_Elvins]

What if I use my phone as my scorecard? Does that bother the beard pulling crowd here?

That's almost as bad a faux pas as using a brush tee.

[David_Elvins]

I can't be arsed to read threads the threads with effectively no title, but looked when I noticed Sean Arble posted whose threads I always read even if I dont always agree with him. I did not read all 4 pages but the first 2 had virtually no support for the phone used on the course.

At what point did you think that your opinion on mobile phone use was just so so important that it couldn't go in the thread that already existed on mobile phone use? twhat the hell made you think that this discussion board needed another off topic thread on mobile phone use?  

It shows a degree of self importance and disregard for the group that makes it unlikely you have any clue how much your phone use affects other golfers.  

[Martin Toal]

What if I use my phone as my scorecard? Does that bother the beard pulling crowd here?

That's almost as bad a faux pas as using a brush tee.

Not a problem. Airline Mode.

[Dan Herrmann]

Martin - regarding post 52.   If you don't have a job, you can't play golf.    I don't know what kind of job you have, but mine requires me to be in contact via e-mail and telephone.  Fortunately, 95% of my golf has zero interruptions, but there are 2 or 3 rounds per year that have something come up.

Again, I hate these things on the golf course as much as you do.  But, I work in information technology, and almost everybody I know in this business has similar requirements - to be available.   

[Martin Toal]

Martin - regarding post 52.   If you don't have a job, you can't play golf.    I don't know what kind of job you have, but mine requires me to be in contact via e-mail and telephone.  Fortunately, 95% of my golf has zero interruptions, but there are 2 or 3 rounds per year that have something come up.

Again, I hate these things on the golf course as much as you do.  But, I work in information technology, and almost everybody I know in this business has similar requirements - to be available.   

I am the physician responsible for drug safety and other catastrophic issues for global clinical trials run in my company, in which serious stuff can sometimes happen quickly, but I can switch my phone off for a game of golf, and if anything was going down where there was a decent chance of being called, I wouldn't be at the golf course in the first place.

My club has quite a few members from Microsoft, Oracle and other IT firms in the locality, as well as people who are IT consultants or run their own IT companies. None has ever taken a call during a round with me and I would be astonished if any of them ever did. 

Lots of people think that their job is really important and the world will stop turning if they can't be reached. That is invariably untrue (on both counts). Just because your job expects to be able to reach you doesn't mean that it is actually really important you are reachable. How did the world survive in the pre-mobile era?

[Rich Goodale]

I almost always carry a mobile/cell phone (switched to vibrate/silent) when playing golf, for two reasons:

1.  I am responsible for 2 teenage daughters and need to be available should they be in trouble and need to speak to me.
2.  If anything serious should happen to any of my playing partners, or me, I want to be able to get help ASAP.

That's it.

What are not good reasons are:

1.  To answer calls regarding mundane business, unless you are Armenian and deal with perishable crops such as arugula or edamame beans...
2.  To check your e-mail
3.  To surf the internet
4.  To play video games
5.  To post pictures of me on Facebook

As for off the course, by all means do all of the above, but find a dark sound-proof hole to do it in.  If you want to do it in my presence on the 19th hole be prepared to have one less playing partner to share a beer or three with you....

Essential?  NOT!!!!

[Mike Sweeney]

How did the world survive in the pre-mobile era?

Martin,

Like most post on GCA, I agree with much of what you stated. However, in the past 9 months, I have had two episodes with my Autistic son where I was brought in to the scene despite the efforts of police and emergency workers in NYC.

The first episode I was pulled from the gymnasium in my building in NYC by a NYC policeman who drove me to my son's school bus as I did not see or feel the vibrate of the phone. I was on a stairmaster, my wife was traveling, and my son's caregiver was over in Queens. By the time I got there, his episode had ended and it was a low stress situation for me.

In the second episode, I was summoned by cell phone to The Bronx to take care of my son on the school bus again. It was 95 degrees and humid and when I got to the bus, it was stifling hot. It was an incredibly stressful situation negotiating between the emergency worker who had my son in a "hold" and the police officers that were communicating with their precinct trying to understand what "Special Needs Kids" are. Finally when I said to the policeman in charge, who had to defer to the emergency worker since my son was not being arrested, "Please arrest my son so that we can get him off the bus, turn on the AC and get the rest of these kids home," did he understand that I was putting the best interest of everyone else first.

In both situations, the NYC workers were not prepared to deal with an Autistic kid. In the pre-mobile and pre-medication world, kids like my son were probably put in homes.

I have only had one of these calls once on a golf course in 14 years, and my wife was able to cover but I always carry my cell phone. It doesn't happen that often, but when it does, it is a lightning rod type of event. I hired a driver out of my own pocket to drive him home from school during this summers heat to smooth things over.

As The Open Championship winner is an Autism dad, I am not alone in carrying a cell phone on the golf course.

http://www.ernieels.com/els_for_autism/index.html

Now it may be selfish, but I want my son to live with us and I want to continue to play golf occasionally. I really need a cell phone during the school week when he is away from us to do this.

[Richard Choi]

What if I use my phone as my scorecard? Does that bother the beard pulling crowd here?

That's almost as bad a faux pas as using a brush tee.

You can take my brush tee from my cold dead hand...

[Adrian_Stiff]

I can't be arsed to read threads the threads with effectively no title, but looked when I noticed Sean Arble posted whose threads I always read even if I dont always agree with him. I did not read all 4 pages but the first 2 had virtually no support for the phone used on the course.

At what point did you think that your opinion on mobile phone use was just so so important that it couldn't go in the thread that already existed on mobile phone use? twhat the hell made you think that this discussion board needed another off topic thread on mobile phone use?  

It shows a degree of self importance and disregard for the group that makes it unlikely you have any clue how much your phone use affects other golfers.

The clue is in the first few words. I have disregard only for a few on this board and you are one of them.

[Ben Sims]

RJ,

Well put.  Now that you mention it, it's not the cell phones that bother me ... it's the people who imagine they are so important that they have to have them!

Tom,

I think you are missing the point.  It has nothing to do with self-importance--at least in my case.  It has everything to do with my responsibilities being more important than a leisure activity.  Only a self-important tool would consider his need to get away from the rat-race more important than someone's duty to others.  

With respect, that is a load of sanctimonious claptrap.

Duty to others? When you step on a golf course, your responsibility is to your playing partners and others using the course.

If your "duty" is more important than playing golf, go do your duty. Don't spoil my precious leisure activity because you need to be able to tell someone to try turning it off and back on again, or pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

I have a job which attracts out of hours calls, and a family too. Neither of these is uncommon in this day and age. I presume the same dutiful people are happy to answer a call in church on Sunday too. After all, duty is more important. If not, please explain the hypocrisy.

Martin,

I have said elsewhere and will say again, it's not sanctimonious.  It's just reality.  Unless I am on leave, I cannot be unaccountable to those under or over me.  And I'm sorry, but I refuse to play golf only when I take leave.  And by the way when you say this, "Duty to others? When you step on a golf course, your responsibility is to your playing partners and others using the course," you're being woefully out of touch.  Are you saying that when you step on the first tee, your wife, kids, family members, and/or those you've been charged with their leadership become less important?

It is very frightening to me how many here think that their golf game--GAME!!--is more important than the life events off the golf course.

I wholly agree with others that common calls, texts about what's for dinner, etc. are unwarranted.  But being accountable to others doesn't stop at the first tee.  The straw man that is being set up by some by referring to what happened before cell phones is ridiculous.  Just because there was a way to notify people of emergencies before devices doesn't mean that it is the best way.  It's called progress.  And the golf world--and many members of this website in particular--is dreadfully behind. 

I'm starting to believe that the old fuddy duddy mentality is the largest detractor to golf from the economically important Gen Y.

[RJ_Daley]

I am curious and not being frivolous or trying to one-up your positions on this matter, Ben.  I wonder if there is any way to find out if in recent years of the cell phone era, a time where where he was likely still playing golf regularly, did Neil Armstrong play golf with and utilize a cell phone?

Yes Ben, I understand your commitment to your duty responsibility, although I think you are tending to make more of it than the reality of how often your duty requires you to actually engage on the cell phone during golf.  I am not such an old foggy that I am absolute and dead set against cell phones at all on the golf course.  My heart goes out to Mike S. and his situation.  These are the completely understandable and no questions asked or usage objectionable cases.

I do think that there are far too many folks, not Mike- not you, who are making way too much of their attachment to mundane work that they do not need to constantly keep checking the device, silent vibrate or not, and go walking off slightly- but not out of earshot and talking while others are playing away, out of turn, and detached from the fact that these people originally agreed to play a round of golf together.  

My issue is the question of what is this mentality really doing to our social interaction and basic manners and courtesy process.  Not to mention the stimulation to an Attention Deficit Disorder epidemic.  It isn't just the golf course, it is near everywhere in life and social or public situations. The internet is full of videos of these texting follies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx2L9g0reNo&feature=related

Feel free to ignore the right wing lead in ad to this ABC News segment.  At the end you see they are actually padding the street signs in London due to this epidemic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl0JojWH1rQ&feature=related

I believe there are already documented cases of injuries and I think a death of a person at (Wolf Creek?) resultant of people texting while driving the golf cart.

  

[George Pazin]

And people wonder why golf has a reputation of only being for the elites.

[archie_struthers]

 

I've got mixed feelings on this one. As a player I'm against it. As a course operator at a club with an active membership that works , many players can sneak a couple of extra rounds in a week thanks to the cell phone. Multiply that  by 30 and you get some serious revenue. Most players who are good to play with find ways to hide the usage , and can finish a text or call very quickly.

In sales the first responder often gets the order, so I understand the need to have your phone.  It's a mixed bag for sure.

[Tim_Cronin]

Why one thread on mobile phones doesn't suffice is beyond me, but then, I read every page. (Ran, can you merge them?)

This is from the guest information sheet of a leading Chicago area club:

Cellular Telephones – The use of cell phones (Smartphones, iPhones, Blackberrys, iPads, Notebooks or other electronic device that can be used as a phone can send or receive text or e-mail messages, be used as a calendar, etc) is not permitted. The only place where a cell phone (as definted) may be used is in a car or in the phone booth in the Clubhouse. When not in use, cell phones are to be turned off and out of sight. Exceptions:
• Members of the Club staff, including teaching professionals, may use electronic devices when performing their duties as Club employees.
• Practicing physicians may use electronic devices for the sole purpose of addressing a patient's needs.

----
This club has 29 new members this year.

[Patrick_Mucci]

And people wonder why golf has a reputation of only being for the elites.

George,

Since when is common courtesy and proper etiquette as described in the first chapter of the USGA rule book solely for the elites ?

[Dan Herrmann]

Martin - companies like Microsoft and Oracle are a lot different than what I call "IT".  try working in financial services ar healthcare IT and you will see what I mean.

[Jason Thurman]

Dan, I've worked in healthcare IT for five years and I've never taken a work-related call on the golf course. In the companies that I've worked for, there is occassionally a technical services representative designated to be "on call" during non-business hours. Outside of that though, I don't know why anyone would ever need me for an IT question when I'm not at work that can't wait until I return.

As a 28 year old who has also worked in the wireless industry, I'm acutely aware of how easy it is to start feeling like I need to be connected at all times. It's something I'm actively opposed to and I'm committed to maintaining my ability to disconnect. Golf is a big part of that. I'm sure my job is as important to me as yours is to you, but it's not reason for me to never put down the phone or computer and go about living my own life.

Carry your phone if you want to (I really don't care as long as I don't get interrupted or held up by it), but don't pretend it's necessary for you to be available to be contacted 24/7.

[Eric_Terhorst]

Unless I am on leave, I cannot be unaccountable to those under or over me....  But being accountable to others doesn't stop at the first tee.  The straw man that is being set up by some by referring to what happened before cell phones is ridiculous.  Just because there was a way to notify people of emergencies before devices doesn't mean that it is the best way.  It's called progress.  And the golf world--and many members of this website in particular--is dreadfully behind.  

I'm starting to believe that the old fuddy duddy mentality is the largest detractor to golf from the economically important Gen Y.

Ben, I appreciate what you do as a serviceman--please take that as a sincere thank you, not as Internet sarcasm.  What I find concerning about your comments is that they suggest that your entire command, above and below, are helpless without you.  Surely there is someone in your charge who could act for you, or a senior officer who would step in on your behalf if you were unavailable for whatever reason--whether it be playing golf or taking a shower?  Wouldn't you do the same for them in the spirit of unit camaraderie?  Your comments just go against my sincere view of the U.S. military as a functional organization.  

Are you saying that when you step on the first tee, your wife, kids, family members, and/or those you've been charged with their leadership become less important?

Yes, I for one am willing to admit that playing golf on a quiet course with the cell phone nowhere to be found is a choice and a selfish act.  Someone may in fact need to get me and they may find they are disappointed in me.  That's life.

When I hear a guy who claims to be a golfer say "I like golf but just don't have the time..." I find no use arguing with him--I simply remind myself that I'm perfectly happy I choose to be a golfer.  Those who instead choose to spend what might be "golf time" with their kids or with their employer may also be perfectly happy.  I hope they are.

[Ben Sims]

Unless I am on leave, I cannot be unaccountable to those under or over me....  But being accountable to others doesn't stop at the first tee.  The straw man that is being set up by some by referring to what happened before cell phones is ridiculous.  Just because there was a way to notify people of emergencies before devices doesn't mean that it is the best way.  It's called progress.  And the golf world--and many members of this website in particular--is dreadfully behind.  

I'm starting to believe that the old fuddy duddy mentality is the largest detractor to golf from the economically important Gen Y.

Ben, I appreciate what you do as a serviceman--please take that as a sincere thank you, not as Internet sarcasm.  What I find concerning about your comments is that they suggest that your entire command, above and below, are helpless without you.  Surely there is someone in your charge who could act for you, or a senior officer who would step in on your behalf if you were unavailable for whatever reason--whether it be playing golf or taking a shower?  Wouldn't you do the same for them in the spirit of unit camaraderie?  Your comments just go against my sincere view of the U.S. military as a functional organization.  

Eric,

I am not suggesting any such thing.  And that is the clear delineation between leave and pass that I have tried to explain.  In my former position, I had 130+ in my flight.  My office was primarily staffed by 2-4 young officers that were pilot training eliminees that were awaiting reclassification to another job field.  These are young officers with 2 months to 1 year experience, tops.  They can and would pass information in my stead.  However, in a serious situation, there is no way that they can regurgitate and execute the protocols that certain situations demand with the brevity and accuracy that I can.  Not only that, its not like I give the boss my schedule for the weekend every Friday afternoon.  He has no idea if I am on a golf course, or bass fishing, or watering the lawn; he just expects me to be accountable for emergencies.  You must understand that in our world--and many others have mentioned this premise--there is nothing more important than our accountability to those under and over us.  For 98% of us, our families aren't near where we our stationed.  We are each others family, on and off duty. 

As an aside, if my posts degraded a bit of your faith in the military, think about what you're implying.  I'm trying to understand how being 100% committed to mission at all times--when I'm not on leave-- is a bad thing.  I think most organizations in our country would be better with a mentality like that. 

[B. Mogg]

I thought the whole point of the mobile phone was that you can be playing golf when you should be working. Take your phone with you and your boss doesnt know you are not at the office? I mean this is a big advantage of the smart phone isn't it?

And you guys would not survive golf in Asia - everyone here has his phone on...and not on silent. I know a few Asian guys who only swing well when a phone is ringing!

[Brett_Morrissy]

When I read the first post on the first thread - I wanted to post - why is this not titled OT - it has nothing to do with golf course architecture.

Unfortunately I have read every post...I did listen to the David Foster Wallace speech, which was good and a reminder of the benefits of staying in the moment, and being aware of those around us, of ourselves in our enviroment.

This brings me to my personal approach to phones and golf courses - actually, not golf courses, but playing golf, usually in club competition - and members and guests use and particpation.

What I think gives phone use a bad rap:
1. a playing partner answering a phone call on or approaching a green, and then continuing to have a conversation while the group putts out, all the while gesturing to us to keep playing, or "I'll just be a sec".
2. Standing on the tee of a Par 3, waiting for the group on the green (the group ahead of them have already teed off the next), and one of the group is on the phone.
3. my fellow golfers, who I have chosen to play with, and they have chosen to play with me, choose to send emails, thumb type text messages, as we walk down fairways, or to or from tees - instead of engaging in conversation, or being aware of what they are actually doing - they are there to play golf - right?
4. Those that take or make a call - using a load voice (this is not exclusive to a golf course!  
5. 19th hole - looking at the screen - again instead of engaging with playing partners over a social end of game beverage.

I have good friends, who are sometimes susceptible to some of the above, I try to help them see their actions from those around them's POV.

My personal approach to phone use: (apart from getting very attached to it sometimes)
1. Always turn off or silent(same thing) my phone while playing golf (my wife was able to contact me when my daughter slashed her arm open via golf ops) - exceptions - our group may want a football score that is happening while we are playing, check severe weather pattern, or to call golf ops to raise their attention to a slow group.
2. never answer a call in a meeting with another person - one on one.
3. Never answer a call or check anything in an important formal meeting - Board meeting, etc
4. Never answer a call or check anything while meeting with professional - lawyer, accountant, doctor, etc
5. Turn my phone off while at the movies
6. Turn my phone off while attending my children's school functions, plays, assembly, etc
7. Out to dinner with my wife - don't answer the phone.

I am sure there are another 3 to get a top ten, but you get the idea - I am trying to be aware and in the moment with the thing I am doing at the time - the phone call will always wait, and I can cop some flack for not answering the phone, but at the end of the day, they can usually wait, I will call them back, and when I do, they will usually have my undivided attention.

Just turn it off, and enjoy your game, give it your best attention, and sort our the other stuff when you can. life is too short.

consideration for others on the golf course should be paramount.

[Martin Toal]

RJ,

Well put.  Now that you mention it, it's not the cell phones that bother me ... it's the people who imagine they are so important that they have to have them!

Tom,

I think you are missing the point.  It has nothing to do with self-importance--at least in my case.  It has everything to do with my responsibilities being more important than a leisure activity.  Only a self-important tool would consider his need to get away from the rat-race more important than someone's duty to others.  

With respect, that is a load of sanctimonious claptrap.

Duty to others? When you step on a golf course, your responsibility is to your playing partners and others using the course.

If your "duty" is more important than playing golf, go do your duty. Don't spoil my precious leisure activity because you need to be able to tell someone to try turning it off and back on again, or pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

I have a job which attracts out of hours calls, and a family too. Neither of these is uncommon in this day and age. I presume the same dutiful people are happy to answer a call in church on Sunday too. After all, duty is more important. If not, please explain the hypocrisy.

Martin,

I have said elsewhere and will say again, it's not sanctimonious.  It's just reality.  Unless I am on leave, I cannot be unaccountable to those under or over me.  And I'm sorry, but I refuse to play golf only when I take leave.  And by the way when you say this, "Duty to others? When you step on a golf course, your responsibility is to your playing partners and others using the course," you're being woefully out of touch.  Are you saying that when you step on the first tee, your wife, kids, family members, and/or those you've been charged with their leadership become less important?

It is very frightening to me how many here think that their golf game--GAME!!--is more important than the life events off the golf course.

I wholly agree with others that common calls, texts about what's for dinner, etc. are unwarranted.  But being accountable to others doesn't stop at the first tee.  The straw man that is being set up by some by referring to what happened before cell phones is ridiculous.  Just because there was a way to notify people of emergencies before devices doesn't mean that it is the best way.  It's called progress.  And the golf world--and many members of this website in particular--is dreadfully behind. 

I'm starting to believe that the old fuddy duddy mentality is the largest detractor to golf from the economically important Gen Y.

Fuddy duddy mentality, Gen Y - more strawmen, I think.

I have no idea what you do, but you are not the only one that has a busy and important job, family and the possibility that one of them may have an accident or illness while you are playing golf. Nor the only one involved in economic generation for Gen Y, not to mention X and Z, but I apologise if my attitude to mobiles on the course is bringing down the economy.

Funny nobody has yet said that they DO keep their phone on in church.

Overall it is a balance of rights. Is your right for a phone to ring on the course and interrupt my golf greater than my right to come to the golf course for a few hours of golf and peace and golf. Seems like you think it is. I disagree, just as I disagree that my right to be contacted trumps that of you or my playing partners.

If your job really is mission critical, you can leave your name at the club and direct messages there, and have someone come out or contact you via the cart messaging if there is a scramble.

It is also good for the soul to break that 24/7 contact with the office now and again. Teaches you that you are not indispensable and the world keeps moving.

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