[Adrian_Stiff]

I can't be arsed to read threads the threads with effectively no title, but looked when I noticed Sean Arble posted whose threads I always read even if I dont always agree with him. I did not read all 4 pages but the first 2 had virtually no support for the phone used on the course.

Let me just say this, to some people it is 100% essential that they have their phone with them full stop. If you do not allow them those people cant play. Modern people (under 40) take them everywhere its just the way it is, Modern clubs allow them the Backward clubs do not. If the club has enough members and no cash problems then let them do what they want, but if you want visitors or new young members you absolutely must allow them.

I 100% agree that the phones should be on a silent mode or extremely low volume and no silly ring tones. Everyone has choice and the annoyance should only be with your own group, so if it offends you dont play with those people, phones are rarely distractive to other players unless that player chooses to take calls and delay play which is obviously not acceptable.

[Dan Herrmann]

Yep - I'm with you big time.

I hate them, but you really can't hold a job today without one.

[Brad Isaacs]

I am on the wrong side of your age comment. I hate the distraction of cell phones. It takes away part of the refuge against humanity.

Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to be out there nearly as often if I didn't have my cell phone, but never on a vacation.

[Ronald Montesano]

I'd hate to be the guy who has an emergency on the course and, because some dick in his group said "no cell phones because I have rabbit ears and need to be the center of attention for everything," dies.

Stay on the other side of the dividie, fogies. Hope that no one has that emergency.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I play with a friend regularly.  When we play as a twosome both of us leave our phones on and take calls that seem to be important.  Normally the phone never rings.  When it does we don't play, just walk until we can end the call.  It is not unusual for me to have a distraught person with whom I need to speak.  When I am paired with someone else I put the phone on silent and check it periodically.  If I feel I need to call someone I make myself scarce.  I don't check email because most of them are not time sensitive.  If I get a text I will check it and determine whether or not to answer it.  Generally texts are more time sensitive.
 
I understand both sides of this issue.  There are some guys with whom I play that hate the phone and I will leave it in the locker room.  The whole time I am out there I am wondering, "Is everything and everyone ok?"  Before cell phones someone from the shop would come with emergencies.  It rarely happened mostly because folks didn't know how to get me.  I wish I didn't feel so tied to the phone but I am and it gives me some peace of mind.  Most of my parishioners have my cell and I like to be available 24/7. I want them to be able to get me on days off and even on vacation.  I like being available to them and don't feel it is an imposition anytime I get a call.

[Brent Hutto]

I had rather play with someone txt-ing his friends than with the guy who bangs on all day long about some talk-radio politico-cultural hot button topic he thinks is worthy of a 4-hour rehash. Or the college football blowhards, give me a guy with his nose stuck to a touch screen any day.

[Tom_Doak]

I'd hate to be the guy who has an emergency on the course and, because some dick in his group said "no cell phones because I have rabbit ears and need to be the center of attention for everything," dies.

Stay on the other side of the dividie, fogies. Hope that no one has that emergency.

Adrian's logic is 100% correct, and I am moved to agree with him on this issue.

So, don't spoil it by offering the "ticking time bomb" example that delivered us the Patriot Act.  I would just dig my cell phone out of my golf bag and turn it on, to save your life ... unless you're going to keep making arguments like that one.  

Sincerely, an old fogey.

P.S.  I find it amazing that there is anyone here who can waste so much time on Golf Club Atlas, but can't hold down a job unless they are available by cell 24/7.  It's an addiction, not a need.  I just spent a week in Montana without a cell phone and it was awesome ... but my kids had to be connected to text their friends like they were at home on the couch.

[Mark Steffey]

so do people take calls (after the phone vibrates) while sitting at the opera?

nobody, nobody, is that important that they need to be available every minute of the day.  even ronald reagan had al haig!  if you feel otherwise, you need to work on training your underlings.  what happens if you die or fall into a coma? 

if you are playing in your usual foursome and everyone is cool with you texting.  that's fine.    i've played with folks who offer to text the cart girl to bring us beer.  i've encouraged this. 
again - if you are in a group that is ok with it, no problem.

however......
if you and i have a club match going and i am not.  don't pull out your silent vibrating phone and disturb our match.  i would expect you to hang up and look at me as i wait and say, "sorry.  your hole."

when i am out, i put on my out of office, "unavailable, contact XXX XXXX at xxx-xxxx.  otherwise i'll get back to you whenever."   i have protocols that have been created to replace me if needed.  we are all 'at will' workers, no?

--more important on Pat's original post was the fact that those who are distracted seem to play at a level that is not their best.  i am going to institute a 'no phone' rule on my partner going forward - as i have seen this firsthand.

i also practice this.  when my father passed i was contacted by the pro shop who drove out to get me as my phone was in my locker.

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't this just yet another example of how important common courtesy is, and frequently it's ignored in our modern society of instant gratification?   

There are ways to do things that don't offend.  Using a cell phone on the course is one. 

[Eric Smith]

I'm one who admitedly has my phone with me all the time, though set for pulse when not in the office. One of my great joys is the occasional trip out to Dismal where the cell phone is rendered virtually useless. Like Tom Doak mentions re: his recent trip to Montana, it really is a treat to be disconnected.

[RJ_Daley]

While I have the luxury of being retired, and don't have to cope in this so-called modern era of cell phone, slave to your masters demands, I still question the overall trend and seduction of kidding ourselves we are so important that we are able to go play golf and yet do our jobs and meet work responsibilities while engaging in an idle pass time.  

Yes, as I mentioned on the other thread, having the cell phone for true emergency notifications and communications is fine.  How many true emergencies and urgent communications do you have that you can not pick a 5-6 hour slot to have a full game of golf and some social time afterwards?  Or, a few hours to go bat it around for 9 holes or less after work as so many do.   If you are doing this during you work hours, and are taking calls of mundane business decisions (buy-sell, directing a subordinate to say this or that in a meeting, letting the para-legal know where you left the Acme-Apple merger papers laying about, whose the best man in Asia to engage in that R.E. due diligence to site that new Taco Johns, or tell the bosses wife he was with you when he is really banging the secretary.... well maybe you should be in your office - place of work, and not on the golf course in the first place.  Frankly, I'd question the soundness of a choice to do business with a dude that has to get his golf Jones on during work time, and thinks he can substitute being at the work place fully engaged, rather than make comments and decisions walking from green to tee, or while eating a hot dog at the turn.  For those that say doing business at golf is a long time accepted practice, entertaining clients and the like, maybe - just maybe that is one of the aspects that are wrong about our business environment, where decision makers are deciding on a golf green rather than at the facility where work is actually done by those that do that work.  Maybe that is why decision makers in business are so clueless about work challenges of those that do work, because they are making a right to left breaking put rather than seeing that the group assembling the widgets are having difficulties that only being there and doing and seeing it will allow understanding of that problem.

And for those that are truly on call for medical emergency calls, SWAT team (yes I have played with a few of them over the years) no problem.  If you can't go places without a car trunk full of arms, well you are 'special' - I guess   How many times do we play with an M.D. anyway.  If the M.D. is your regular and this goes on during regular work days rather than occasional weekend games, well maybe same thing applies that that M.D. isn't fully engaged if he is playing on M-W-F and maybe you wouldn't want him to be performing your brain surgery.  

I frankly think there is something of an element of narcissism that permeates our society like this whole 'Twitter' phenomenon in this whole thing of contemplating you are so important that you can not detach yourself from the constant electronic dog leash to the world and give your input to the rest of us 24/7.  You are not a "master of the universe" and I think it is an insidious process that is making us collectively emotionally dependent, narcissistic, and perhaps delusional about our place in the world.  

So, if your regular golf group are on electronic dog leashes, and you are all doing business, twittering, texting, solving your other life crisis while you go on playing your game of golf and can't extricate yourself, well as an old foggie, I do feel sorry for you.

[Tom_Doak]

RJ,

Well put.  Now that you mention it, it's not the cell phones that bother me ... it's the people who imagine they are so important that they have to have them!

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think people need their phones for more than just emergency. For quite a lot of the under 40s that play golf, perhaps even under 50s you have a situation wherby those people may head business's or be one man bands, in the UK tht may be a plasterer or a tradesman who needs work, but in times when he has no work he may well want to play golf, an important call could be missed if he cant have his phone.

That might apall some of you but it is important to many people. There is no way I could play a round of golf without my phone, it is with me 24/7. So by not allowing it you will drive more golfers away from the game. Its just a fact these days that little box of tricks is so important to us these days and it actually allows more people time to play golf because they can play and still be contactable, it is not practical for quite a lot of people to be away from their phones for 6 hours.

Phones are part of todays life, if they really offend you, you might need to seek out a new planet, cuz they aint going away.

[RJ_Daley]

Adrian, some of us were on the planet, first!!! 

Some of us have a perspective that you are kidding yourself as to your willingness to give up your privacy and personal time for 'business and trade considerations; and in doing so, people that are rude and distracting in social interactive situations (checking their toy's messages and tweets and weather and the market) while we are trying to engage them in a dinner conversation, or some other activity that WE mutually agreed to engage in, now being disrupted for a nervous habit and self delusional concept that checking back with the office every 10 minutes is important.... If a guy is doing this at dinner that we agreed to have, I think the next time I'm going to excuse myself to go to the bathroom, and actually leave him there, with the dinner bill! 

If you are a plasterer and afraid you'll loose that call for an instant engagement of your services, maybe you should have an answering service. 

I mean if one calls you for plastering, one probably wants 'you' to the extent they aren't just going down the list in the now almost extinct phone book.  And, if they are, you need a name of AAberstein plastering.  And if you are Xenophon Zbignewskii plumbing, you ain't getting the job anyway. 

"hello, this is Stiff plumbing - I'm sorry I am unavailable for a short time, please leave your name and number and I'll call you back shortly..." 

[Jon Wiggett]

Adrian,

whilst I would prefer to have no mobiles on the course I have to reluctantly agree that most should be allowed to have them. It must be on silent mode (all mobiles have this so no low ring tones) and if people need to use them then a low voice should be used. I do however believe that the PGA tour players should not be allowed to use them.

Jon

[Martin Toal]

If you are a transplant surgeon or an international covert agent who is on call 24/7/365, then fine, keep your mobile in your pocket on vibrate. If not, switch it off. Otherwise, check it at the halfway hut if you must, but at other times keep it off.

There are few things more irritating that trying to size up or play a shot with one of your playing partners standing in the woods quietly but not imperceptibly saying " Yeah, dear ..... home soon ..... on the 16th ..... yeah, playing OK......nice birdie on the 10th .......love you ......... no, love YOU more ......". On the other hand, the phone comes in useful when he needs to call an ambulance to transport him to hospital for emergency removal of my sand wedge.

[Adrian_Stiff]

RJ - Firstly I think you lose half the calls with an answerphone service, a strong reason why mobiles are sucessfull.

I don't disagree that todays 'toys' are invasive. I rarely go 4 hours while I am awake without checking on GCA or Ebay or Facebook or my emails.........some people are like that and some dont find the need to. Younger people do take their phones into resturants (lower to midprice), resturants want the business, if they say no lots wont eat there. It is just the way it is, people used to smoke between courses at dinner some found that rude at the time, what would we think today? Times change and whats in vogue at one time will not be in another period. So I think we just have got to learn to live with phones on a golf course, if a course choses to ban them then I will go on record as saying it will go bust if it continues that policy, in 10 years time, perhaps even 5 only the crazy clubs (snobotoriums) will have a NO PHONE policy, but in 15-20 years the average age of their members if they have any by then will just demand it.

As long as phones are on low or silent its no big deal, calls can/should be answered in a manner that does not slow play. It does not worry me if someone takes a call at all, worries me if they delay in playing their shot.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think people need their phones for more than just emergency.

You're right, they need them for their own self-indulgent, inconsiderate purposes.

For quite a lot of the under 40s that play golf, perhaps even under 50s you have a situation wherby those people may head business's or be one man bands, in the UK tht may be a plasterer or a tradesman who needs work, but in times when he has no work he may well want to play golf, an important call could be missed if he cant have his phone.

Why do you and others always context "ALL" calls as important when we know that 99 % of them aren't vitally important ?

I play with everyone, including doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, business owners small and large, executives at private and public companies, including COO's, CEO's, CFO's, Wall Street guys, and there're a few things that come to mind.

Most decisions don't have to be made at the moment the call is made.
Most matters are not life altering matters or really important matters.
Most matters can be handled by those whose job it is, not the fellow on the golf course
Most calls are update or status calls, meant to inform the party on the golf course.

I'm involved in a service oriented business and rarely does an issue require my spontaneous and immediate involvement.
If I'm in the midst of an important project or issue, then I don't play golf.
But, if I'm playing golf, other than an unexpected and very rare emergency, I can't see why I would need to answer a cell phone, or worse, make a cell phone call.
In all of these cases, the matters at hand can wait to be addressed after the round is over.

Those advocating cellphone use tend to be self-indulgent, thinking that they and their affairs are far more important than anyone else and their use of a cell phone take precedence over anyone else playing golf with them.

RJ,

We completely agree on this subject.


That might apall some of you but it is important to many people. There is no way I could play a round of golf without my phone, it is with me 24/7.

So, when you play a course with a "no-cell phone" policy, you deliberately ignore it ?
What's your profession ?  What requires you to have it glued to your side 24/7 ?

 So by not allowing it you will drive more golfers away from the game.

That'll be good for the game.
As You'll be improving the quality of the pool of those who remain

Its just a fact these days that little box of tricks is so important to us these days and it actually allows more people time to play golf because they can play and still be contactable, it is not practical for quite a lot of people to be away from their phones for 6 hours.

6 hours ?

Now I get it !

Phones are part of todays life, if they really offend you, you might need to seek out a new planet, cuz they aint going away.
So, you would use them at a funeral service ?
In church ?
During open heart surgery ?
While engaging in sex with your girlfriend/wife ?
While your boss was giving a speech ?
While your wife was accepting an award ?
During your child's part in a school play ?

NO ?
Why not ?

[Adrian_Stiff]

There are few things more irritating that trying to size up or play a shot with one of your playing partners standing in the woods quietly but not imperceptibly saying " Yeah, dear ..... home soon ..... on the 16th ..... yeah, playing OK......nice birdie on the 10th .......love you ......... no, love YOU more ......". On the other hand, the phone comes in useful when he needs to call an ambulance to transport him to hospital for emergency removal of my sand wedge.
[/quote] Martin if there are really only a few things that you find more irritating that this then so be it. None of that is any real big deal in my world.

[Cory Lewis]

but if you want visitors or new young members you absolutely must allow them.

This is a key point when thinking about growing the game.  We hear it all the time in PGA meetings about trying to bring in new players to the game. The new generation takes their phones everywhere.  If you want them to start playing golf, you need to realize that their cell phones are going to be with them.  I would dare to say that the survival of the game involves our ability to adapt to cell phones on the golf course.

[Dan_Callahan]

If its not against the rules of the course, why are people so concerned with dictating how other people live their lives? If you don't like playing with a guy who checks his email once in a while, don't play with him.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I agree that people should be able to use smartphones on the course.  In most instances taking a call or responding to an email is not absolutely necessary, but it is very nice to have.  I almost never use the phone part of my Blackberry on the course but I do use the email functionality at times.  There are instances when I do have to get back to people and I have to approve things - being able to do this from the course is very useful and not being able to do this can cost you money.  Like it or not in this day and age people are expected to be contactable all day long and not being in touch with your emails can be detrimental to your career. 

I am far more likely to use my Blackberry when I am in a cart and the pace of play is somewhat slow.  When I am walking and playing a very fast paced game then there isn't nearly as much time to spend on my phone.

And the difference between golf and many other activities is the amount of time it takes.  Even if you can play a round in under four hours the actual time that golf keeps you out of the office can be very significant when you take into account the drive to the course, changing, warming up, etc.  Not many people spend 6 hours in church on a regular basis several times per week.

But the smartphone also has applications in golf.  I am thinking about getting an iPhone and using Golfshot as a GPS and to track my stats.  I would like to be able to keep track of whether I am usually over or underclubbing, hitting the ball left or right, etc.

[Ronald Montesano]

Politically, I'm a fence-sitter. I always find it interesting how liberals (more often than conservatives) are open to other ideas. Conservatives strive to convince the liberals, at all costs, that their ideas were born wrong and never had a chance to develop (here me out, this gets better.) Again, this is not 100% or even 0% of the time, but is the case with most politically-inclined people that I've met. People on the fringes of either tendency do not count.

Same applies to new technology. If someone were to ask me if devices should be allowed on the course during recreational (non-tournament) play, I'd say "whatever floats your boat." The battle between the "whatever" guys like me and the ideologues (Old Tom had the sense to keep his Android in his bag!!) is what sets in motion this kind of debate.

Come to think of it, that's not news. "Whatever" guys are always easier to get along with...these "Beta" males could care less if you whipped out your IPhone or not, as long as no one is disturbed. Every chap I've played with, that is tied to his device, has always been extraordinarily considerate.

Ring tones, on the other hand, are pathetic in all walks of life. Why these even exist, is beyond me. It's your favorite song? Great. Your child's giggle? Awesome. Give me pulse/vibrate...I'm not that into me.

[Patrick_Mucci]

If you are a transplant surgeon or an international covert agent who is on call 24/7/365, then fine, keep your mobile in your pocket on vibrate. If not, switch it off. Otherwise, check it at the halfway hut if you must, but at other times keep it off.

There are few things more irritating that trying to size up or play a shot with one of your playing partners standing in the woods quietly but not imperceptibly saying " Yeah, dear ..... home soon ..... on the 16th ..... yeah, playing OK......nice birdie on the 10th .......love you ......... no, love YOU more ......". On the other hand, the phone comes in useful when he needs to call an ambulance to transport him to hospital for emergency removal of my sand wedge.

Martin,

Ain't it the truth !

Man, you hit the nail on the head

[Patrick_Mucci]

If its not against the rules of the course, why are people so concerned with dictating how other people live their lives?

For the simple reason that their actions interfere with the enjoyment others seek.

A club I'm familiar with, founded and run by a dictator, had no rules but one.

Do whatever you please as long as it doesn't infringe on the other members.


 If you don't like playing with a guy who checks his email once in a while, don't play with him.

But, You don't know that until after you've teed off on the first hole

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