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Ben Sims

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2012, 11:37:22 AM »
Phil,

In battle, there is no difference between strategy and execution from a results perspective.  Something either is or isn't.  And what you meant to do means nothing if the execution isn't there.  I would think high stakes match play isn't very different.

Weaver just didn't have the short range scrambling ability he needed to have under pressure.  The driver put him in a position where had to hit a 10% shot to put pressure on his opponent.  Whereas a less risky shot--a 3 or 4-iron in play past Fox--would've been pressure enough. 

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2012, 11:39:35 AM »
I don't fault him for hitting Driver there.  That was his game plan all along and his one advantage over Fox was distance.  Hell, the announcers almost had a hernia yelling at Fox to go for it.  The greenside bunkers would have been an easy up and down to that pin.  The problem IMO was that he didn't close the match out when he had the chance and he let it get to him.  Here's the problem with your argument Ben.  Sure if he'd had the right mindset, or a real caddie, to take a step back and just layup there it might have given him a bit more confidence and the ability to push the hole.  The problem with that line of reasoning is that if he had the presence of mind to do that he never would have gotten himself in that position in the first place and wouldn't have been yanking everything left down the stretch.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2012, 12:07:44 PM »
Did anyone else find Weaver's old man annoying?  My take was he was out stevie williamsing stevie williiams. Your kid is the story not you guy, so cut the histrionics.

+1

We were rooting for Fox in our house for that reason.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2012, 01:13:44 PM »
Did anyone else find Weaver's old man annoying?  My take was he was out stevie williamsing stevie williiams. Your kid is the story not you guy, so cut the histrionics.

+1

We were rooting for Fox in our house for that reason.

Caddie Dads are certainly irritating, but I would cut the guy from slack. I doubt he's used to being on national television, and if I were caddying for my kid I would probably be excited too.

The bigger question is if it would have been better to have someone else on the bag. Easy to say that Weaver needed more advice and less cheerleading, but we don't know what was said between the two, and the pairing got them to within one putt of the championship.

Dave Falkner

Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2012, 01:37:16 PM »
"the pairing got them to within one putt of the championship"

sorry  the pairing didnt get "them" anywhere!  It got the kid to within one putt  and i think that was part of the problem with the dad,  he was acting like he was part of the show 

to me it was sport parenting at its worst  over involvement, too much vicariously living through ones kid, too much emotion.   

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »
to me it was sport parenting at its worst over involvement, too much vicariously living through ones kid, too much emotion.   

Everyone is quick to criticize overparenting, and it's something I'm trying to avoid with my own daughter, but concluding that Weaver's father is a prime example of this based on a few fist pumps isn't a jump I'm willing to make.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2012, 04:52:17 PM »
Earlier in the week  (I think, it might have been on Sunday) they'd done a bit about Weaver talking about how he grew up playing an absolute go for it all the time and make a ton of birdies sort of game. That worked for him as a junior, but it got him in a lot of trouble once he arrived at Cal. They mentioned in one tournament at the ASU Karsten course he racked up 10 penalty shots. His coach sat him down after that and bluntly told him those penalties cost him being an All American.

Now, as they told this story they were trying to make the point that Weaver had taken that lesson to heart and had become a much better player because he had learned to control those instincts. Maybe he has. It's a little too simplistic probably to point at two instances of him hitting driver when he might otherwise have laid back as evidence that he hasn't changed. He did seem to have a good idea of when it was best to play to the center of the green vs. going right at a pin, for example.

Anyway, I had no problem with him going with driver on #37. I almost wonder if maybe he shouldn't have hit 3 wood (but still in the context of trying to drive the green), though I obviously have no idea if he could hit that club that far. I watched most of the week and every time I saw him on that hole he hit driver. You have to go with them what brung ya, after all.

On #17/#35 he'd also hit driver, which the announcing team hated, but I didn't totally think was a bad decision either. First, the announcing team was embarrassingly wrong about a lot of what they were saying. They openly questioned if he could even carry the first set of corss bunkers, but even I as a viewer could remember that when he reached 17 on Thursday (and he was the one who was 2 down at that time), he hit driver over the cross bunkers, hit iron into the green , and made a birdie that started his own three-hole run like Fox had yesterday. Again, if that was his strategy for the hole, I see no reason to go against it. If he hit it in the fairway he could have knocked it on in two and then the screws would have really been on Fox. If he missed the fairway he could lay up, just as he did.

All that said, both kids played their hearts out. Fox's ability to keep making big putts when he had to have them was remarkable. Both of them played golf they can be very proud of down the stretch. I certainly hope that after a bit of time, Weaver will be able to see that.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2012, 08:43:52 PM »
17 at Cherry Hills looks like a beast of epic proportion.  A par 5 with 2 two series of cross bunkers into an island green.   :o

Talk about setting up drama on the closing stretch of holes.

That hole cost Hogan his chance at a fifth Open.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Best Golf on TV New
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2012, 08:57:02 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:58:57 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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