Erin Hills

[Nigel Islam]

I just played Erin Hills Saturday afternoon, and I thought it was great. I know it is a rather polarizing course on this site, but I have not been able to find a lot of info on the archives. I just wanted to get some other opinions. I do think the walk is a little on the challenging side, and the price is probably too high. I thought the fairways, greens, and bunkers were in great shape. There were a number of interesting holes. I was particularly intrigued by #2 as I thought it might have some Sahara characteristics to it (Drive over big mound on left to get view of green.) I also loved the 12th, 14th, and 15th holes. I had a great time and played with the same ball I started with.

[Jason Thurman]

I love the course too. I found it very tough, but also playable, and I would rank the par 4s there among the best I've ever played for variety and challenge.

I wonder sometimes if a lot of the criticism of the course comes from those who haven't played it in its more recent incarnation. Obviously a lot of work has been done and the course's history is a debacle, but what they have on the ground today is an excellent course and really a great experience.

It might be too tough for some, but I played it with my then 51 year old mother who's about a 28 handicap and hits her best ball on a firm and fast course no more than 200 yards, and we both really liked it.

[Ryan Heiman]

I really like Erin Hills too.  I think the course as it is now is so much better than it was when it first opened.

It is a tough walk, but some great holes.  My favorite has to be the 9th hole.  It used to be the betting/by hole, but it is great and getting rid of the "dell" hole was a good move too (even though I always had good success on that hole).

Now that there is money at Erin Hills, it seems to be headed in the right direction.

[John Kavanaugh]

There was a time that it wasn't cool to like Erin Hills. That is past now that they broke the original owner and Whitten has stepped away. I love the place, always have.

[Joe Bausch]

I very much enjoyed my one and only visit there back in May, 2010.

The photo tour is here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48480

My photo album of Erin Hills is here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/erinhills/

[Phil McDade]

And this one from 2010:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45966.0.html with links to several other earlier threads about the course.

EH might be one of the most thoroughly examined courses in the history of this website.

[John Kavanaugh]

Strange fact. I am the cart baller poster child for this site and found Erin Hills to be a friendly walk.

[Joe Bausch]

Strange fact. I am the cart baller poster child for this site and found Erin Hills to be a friendly walk.

Have you played EH in its various iterations JaKa?  If so, do you like it most in its current form?

I miss not being able to play the Biarritz.  It sounded pretty neat.  And the Dell too.

[John Kavanaugh]

I played Erin Hills the first year it opened. I not only played The Dell and Biarritz, I was lucky enough to play the original tiny 2nd green. I have not been back.

[Brad Klein]

Joe Bausch, you would have missed the Biarritz if you had played it -- an uphill, fall away green on the far end of an inaccessible (in 3) 600-yard hole that sat on the side of a hill. Getting rid of it was one of many important steps that needed to be taken.

[Nigel Islam]

I loved number 9 too. Great hole. Is Ron Whitten no longer involved?

[Phil McDade]

I loved number 9 too. Great hole. Is Ron Whitten no longer involved?

He is said to be disenchanted with the recent (post-2008 or so) changes to the course. My sense is that Whitten wanted an ultra-minimalist course, and in particular viewed the addition of the extensive bunkering you now find there anathema to the original design intent.

[C. Squier]

Joe Bausch, you would have missed the Biarritz if you had played it -- an uphill, fall away green on the far end of an inaccessible (in 3) 600-yard hole that sat on the side of a hill. Getting rid of it was one of many important steps that needed to be taken.

Don't forget the chain link fence right behind the green ready to void any shot long at a moment's notice.

[Nigel Islam]

[/quote]

Don't forget the chain link fence right behind the green ready to void any shot long at a moment's notice.
[/quote]

There was nothing about the course that I felt was unfair. Some severe green contours, but it was all doable. It will be a US Open unlike any we have seen recently,  although Chambers may have a similar look.

[Mike McGuire]

Played it last night -  literally as we could not find our second shots on 18 in the dark.

One of the great changes from the original version is the fescue established between the holes.  It is mostly grown in and yesterday a perfect brown to contrast the fairways. Looks amazing and plays well as we found a lot of balls off mowed areas. This was rare, or non existant in the original version.

The original course had a nasty mix of invasives, mostly reed canary grass, and weeds which made the place unplayable.  They spend an incredible amount of time and money dealing with the out of play areas and it makes all the difference in the world.

[Mike McGuire]

I loved number 9 too. Great hole. Is Ron Whitten no longer involved?

Fortunate to have played EH with John Kavenaugh on his only visit.

He birdied the 9th but it didn't count because we elected to play the Dell course.  Can anyone translate that?

[John Kavanaugh]

Played it last night -  literally as we could not find our second shots on 18 in the dark.

One of the great changes from the original version is the fescue established between the holes.  It is mostly grown in and yesterday a perfect brown to contrast the fairways. Looks amazing and plays well as we found a lot of balls off mowed areas. This was rare, or non existant in the original version.

The original course had a nasty mix of invasives, mostly reed canary grass, and weeds which made the place unplayable.  They spend an incredible amount of time and money dealing with the out of play areas and it makes all the difference in the world.

Wow, Mike, didn't we play Erin together? Me for free off your coupon nonetheless?  How many times have you played there and is it really better now than then?

Btw:  I counted that 2 on 9.  It was the only way I could break 80.

[Jason Thurman]

I did think 9 was the best of the par 3s at my visit. I'm confused as to why it was left out of the original routing unless it was just in the interest of making the transitions between holes easier or something like that.

I do think the par 3s are a weakness for the course overall and what will keep it from really becoming regarded as elite. I loved 9 and like the visual of 16. I liked that I almost aced 13, but otherwise I found them underwhelming.

The 5s and 4s, on the other hand, were fantastic. Big and brawny with plenty of strategic shots and a lot of interest around the greens, and a ton of variety. Erin Hills is one of the only rounds I've ever played where I think I hit every club in my bag.

And I agree about the look and playability of the long fescue.

[Mike McGuire]

I did think 9 was the best of the par 3s at my visit. I'm confused as to why it was left out of the original routing unless it was just in the interest of making the transitions between holes easier or something like that.

The original routing had the current 8th as the 18th ( and the current 18th as the 9th). The current 9th was designed as a 19th or "bye hole" to get you back to the clubhouse. Add to the confusion the dell hole was the original 7th ?  So the course had 19 holes.

The current 8th (original 18th) and 18th tees are right next to each other so when they switched them ( to end on a par 5) the 9th hole ended out in the middle of no where with a "bye hole" to get you to the 10th - actually a halfway house 100 yards from the 10th tee, 'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

At one point you decided before the round if you wanted to play the " dell " course (#7 as the last par 3 on the front) or the " bye"  course  (#9  as the last par 3 on the front.)  You just walked right bye the dell hole if you were playing the bye course. Or you played it for practice?

This confused a couple guys so at some point they deleted the dell taco bell hole and forced everyone to play the "bye course" as its played today.

Im sure this is not a clear explanation, I wish Brad Klein would have written  this.


Edit "a"-  'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

[Nigel Islam]

Wow now I see why the course was not as well received in its initial years. My head spun at that last post (because of the course not the way it was written) I knew it had 19 holes, but just thought it was an extra hole.

[Ryan Heiman]

I did think 9 was the best of the par 3s at my visit. I'm confused as to why it was left out of the original routing unless it was just in the interest of making the transitions between holes easier or something like that.

The original routing had the current 8th as the 18th ( and the current 18th as the 9th). The current 9th was designed as a 19th or "bye hole" to get you back to the clubhouse. Add to the confusion the dell hole was the original 7th ?  So the course had 19 holes.

The current 8th (original 18th) and 18th tees are right next to each other so when they switched them ( to end on a par 5) the 9th hole ended out in the middle of no where with a "bye hole" to get you to the 10th - actually a halfway house 100 yards from the 10th tee, 'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

At one point you decided before the round if you wanted to play the " dell " course (#7 as the last par 3 on the front) or the " bye"  course  (#9  as the last par 3 on the front.)  You just walked right bye the dell hole if you were playing the bye course. Or you played it for practice?

This confused a couple guys so at some point they deleted the dell taco bell hole and forced everyone to play the "bye course" as its played today.

Im sure this is not a clear explanation, I wish Brad Klein would have written  this.


Edit "a"-  'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

Is this a routing they had before it opened to the public?

I played Erin Hills the first year it opened and the 18th hole has never changed.  The bye and the dell hole were the real movers.

The bye hole was there to break ties, so you'd play it mid round, and use the score only if needed at the end.  That was the information I was given on my visit that first year.

[PCCraig]

I played the course about two years ago and enjoyed it. Candidly, I wasn't expecting to like it after a lot of the negative reviews posted here and elsewhere...but in the end I thought it was really good. It's not without its faults though...from what I remember I thought some of the second shots on the par-4's and the par-5's became repetitive.  I thought #2 and #15 where awesome holes.

[Mike McGuire]

I did think 9 was the best of the par 3s at my visit. I'm confused as to why it was left out of the original routing unless it was just in the interest of making the transitions between holes easier or something like that.

The original routing had the current 8th as the 18th ( and the current 18th as the 9th). The current 9th was designed as a 19th or "bye hole" to get you back to the clubhouse. Add to the confusion the dell hole was the original 7th ?  So the course had 19 holes.

The current 8th (original 18th) and 18th tees are right next to each other so when they switched them ( to end on a par 5) the 9th hole ended out in the middle of no where with a "bye hole" to get you to the 10th - actually a halfway house 100 yards from the 10th tee, 'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

At one point you decided before the round if you wanted to play the " dell " course (#7 as the last par 3 on the front) or the " bye"  course  (#9  as the last par 3 on the front.)  You just walked right bye the dell hole if you were playing the bye course. Or you played it for practice?

This confused a couple guys so at some point they deleted the dell taco bell hole and forced everyone to play the "bye course" as its played today.

Im sure this is not a clear explanation, I wish Brad Klein would have written  this.


Edit "a"-  'and 300 yards from the clubhouse'

Is this a routing they had before it opened to the public?

I played Erin Hills the first year it opened and the 18th hole has never changed.  The bye and the dell hole were the real movers.

The bye hole was there to break ties, so you'd play it mid round, and use the score only if needed at the end.  That was the information I was given on my visit that first year.

Ryan -

The original DESIGN had the the current #18 as #9. Before it opened they switched, ending on the par 5. That left the bye hole in the middle.

The "breaking ties" hole is a creative story to explain an extra par three in the middle of the round.  Who would design such a thing?

[Howard Riefs]

In January 2010, before Erin Hills was awarded the 2017 US Open, Matt Ginella wrote a great account of the course's 'journey.' http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2010-01/golf_erin_hills_ginella_0125

It sheds light on a few of the issues raised here.

I loved number 9 too. Great hole. Is Ron Whitten no longer involved?

After the USGA chimed in, Lang also saw an opportunity to make changes of his own. The owner's insistence on input at this juncture led to a falling out between Lang and Whitten. Lang started to believe he knew what was best for his business and what would improve his chances of landing an Open. And he also knew he was running out of money. There was only a little time to get all the changes done before the bank stopped supporting him. The last thing Lang needed was Whitten to get in his way.

"I've known Ron since the '70s, and he is a hard-headed guy," says Hurdzan. "And, on top of that, he has the perfect mentality to be a barrister [Whitten is a former prosecutor] because he can argue and argue and argue. And Bob, on the other hand, couldn't support his arguments. Ron would say, 'Bob, what you're telling me [about course changes] has no logic or support.' Dana and I were really in the middle. We were saying, 'Hey Ron, it is Bob's golf course, he can do what he wants. We can disagree with him, but we can't stop him from doing it. He's paying the bills.' "

Whitten didn't want to be a part of something that was getting so far away from the original plan, and he wasn't interested in being a human speed bump. "Even if you leave me out of the equation, Mike and Dana represent seven decades of experience," Whitten says. "What Bob was suggesting was amateurish."

After Whitten left the project, the Hurdzan/Fry strategy was simple: appease Lang and continue working with Davis to get the course where it needed to be to host an Amateur and perhaps an Open.   


On some course changes, including the Dell Hole.


According to Davis, the USGA made five suggested changes in 2008: enlarge the second green by 50 or 60 percent; move the green on No. 3 closer to the bunkers; lower the landing area on the fifth; lower the 10th green; and cut back the fescue around the 17th green.

But Lang did much more. By Hurdzan's count Lang added roughly 50 bunkers. ... He didn't like the location of the fourth green, which was a punchbowl, so he moved it back 40 yards, creating an elevated approach shot ("It's the way I want it now"). Lang wanted another par 5 on the front nine, so he altered the seventh hole, a Dell Hole with a blind approach to the green that was one of Whitten's favorites, converting the par 4 into a par 5, resulting in a par of 73. "I was timid at first," says Lang. "Then I just did things sometimes, with and without blessings." Lang raised tee boxes because he wanted better views of the course, and he got rid of more blind shots throughout the round.

[Nigel Islam]

Thanks Howard. It is interesting that it was not the USGA that wanted to get rid of the blind shots in particular the Dell hole. I think the USGA suggestions seemed fairly reasonable. The second green is a small target for a shot that is mostly blind. I was somehwat lamenting the fact that I missed the Dell & Biarritz holes, but it sounds as if the Biarittz was a little of a nightmare. I think there are a lot of bunkers there that really do not affect play, but not nearly as many as say Whistling Straits or Arcadia Bluffs. I certainly got a bit of minimalistic feel to the course (with the exception of the hikes up the tees).