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Ben Sims

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Best Golf on TV
« on: August 19, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »
The final 18--and closing 6 holes in particular--of the US Amateur at Cherry Hills CC was the best TV golf I've watched since Sunday at The Masters this year. 

Fox's play over the final holes was nothing short of textbook match play save for his tee shot on 18.  It'll sure make me want to put the driver away more often, work on my putting and short game and long irons a bit more.  I'm really at a loss for how well he played both the course and his opponent.  Special stuff.

Please discuss, I'm pumped up right now.  Hopefully our local reporter Jim Urbina was there.

Jud_T

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 06:48:06 PM »
No question this is the most exciting golf I've seen in quite a while.  You just kind of felt it coming.  He was so within himself the whole time.  Shows you that a hot putter can make up for a lot of sins.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 06:52:13 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Howard Riefs

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 06:57:46 PM »
No question this is the most exciting golf I've seen in quite a while.  You just kind of felt it coming.

Same goes with Weaver's drive on the first extra hole. He was noticeably shaken by the 3-putt on 18. For good reason.

Felt bad for him --  until the putter slam to the bag. Losing sucks. Do it gracefully.

Golfweek article on the final for those who didn't see it:  http://t.co/Mlk2Nr5l
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:00:43 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mark Pearce

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 07:12:54 PM »
Just watched the last 7 holes with my 16 year old son.  Lots of drama and very exciting.  However,  How infuriating that neither player seemed capable of reading a putt whilst waiting for his opponent to play.  It seemed like on every green you'd wait for player A to read his putt from every angle, then putt.  Then watch whilst player B repeated the exercise.  On some holes the reading exercise then got repeated.  I didn't, overall, think the pace of play tee to green was bad but on the greens, just get on with it.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 07:27:31 PM »
Weaver's second putt on 18 was perfectly struck----but it didn't go in.  It is a dramatic and heart wrenching example of the rub of the green.  One little bump and it spins out.  Good theater.  It will be a long night for the Weaver family.  The young man Fox had no quit in him.  Pretty impressive for two guys that were not supposed to make it to the finals.
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Tim_Cronin

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 07:29:54 PM »
Just watched the last 7 holes with my 16 year old son.  Lots of drama and very exciting.  However,  How infuriating that neither player seemed capable of reading a putt whilst waiting for his opponent to play.  It seemed like on every green you'd wait for player A to read his putt from every angle, then putt.  Then watch whilst player B repeated the exercise.  On some holes the reading exercise then got repeated.  I didn't, overall, think the pace of play tee to green was bad but on the greens, just get on with it.

Thrilling stuff and a dramatic turn of events at the finish, but yes, keep pace, lads.
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Ross Harmon

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 08:03:15 PM »
I walked all 37 out there today with a few guys from GCA, it was a great match.

I would have said it was a "good" match, until the last 6 holes when it got GREAT! Awesome golf played by both guys, Fox made some huge putts down the stretch after making very few all day and won with a great birdie. Wow was that fun!

Great crowd, great host in Cherry Hills and a great course!

Mac Plumart

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 08:41:21 PM »
FYI...

they are replaying it at 9 pm EST on The Golf Channel (or at least after the LPGA event).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 09:38:22 PM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Penny

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 09:36:46 PM »
It was great to watch both in person and on TV.  Truly rub of the green, can't complain about traffic causing the blemish that knocked the putt off line.  A chance (50%) it was a footprint from either Weaver or his caddie, from earlier in the day.

They didn't change pins for the 2nd 18, correct?  Don't they usually change the pins?


JLahrman

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2012, 09:54:58 PM »
A chance (50%) it was a footprint from either Weaver or his caddie, from earlier in the day.

I don't believe that a footprint impression lasts that long. Could be wrong though.

Dave Falkner

Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »
Did anyone else find Weaver's old man annoying?  My take was he was out stevie williamsing stevie williiams. Your kid is the story not you guy, so cut the histrionics.

Richard Choi

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2012, 10:57:37 PM »
Friggin' NBC, my DVR stopped recording after the 16th hole. I missed all the good parts.

And no, I do not have The Golf Channel, so I will have to take Ben's words...

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2012, 11:08:39 PM »
I caught the last 9 holes including the sudden death.

Weaver seemed very intense... too intense? Fox played within himself.

Could the caddies have made a difference? Dad on Weaver's bag egging him on vs Fox's Asst. Couch from UTC who replaced his dad on the last 18 urging restraint?

It was a great finish to the match with Fox coming back from dormie with two to play to halve on 18 and win on the first sudden death hole. I was glad to see Fox hole the put for birdie rather than Weaver having to lose to par if he were to miss his putt.

Match play is fun to watch! Having attended a USGA Amateur at Merion years ago I can attest that it is one of the best events to spectate as the crowds are small and you can really follow the action.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2012, 11:31:45 PM »
17 at Cherry Hills looks like a beast of epic proportion.  A par 5 with 2 two series of cross bunkers into an island green.   :o

Talk about setting up drama on the closing stretch of holes.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 12:05:10 AM »
I can not believe that putt on 18 didn't drop for Weaver.  Even though I knew it wouldn't (since I'm watching the replay), it looked like it was on its way down.  Stunning!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ben Sims

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2012, 09:54:47 AM »
Weaver's decision to hit driver on the playoff hole was shocking.  I was screaming at the television.  For three reasons.  1) He had just 3-jacked to go to playoff, on a putt that 99 times out of 100 drops when struck that well.  No way he isn't all tensed up from that.  2) His opponent had just teed off to dead center fairway.  He needed to respond in kind and not take a foolish chance and leave himself with an iffy short shot where unless you drive the firm green, you have no control on the lie of your next shot.  3) The last driver he hit--on 17--was offline to the right.  The last wood he had hit--3w on 18--had gone well left of where he intended with a hooking ballflight. 

In the end, it was Weaver's decisions that left Fox with a no-pressure putt for 3 to win.  Much easier to make that putt when you know you can miss it, IMHO.

I was/am excited to see a relatively short hitter win by playing within himself and letting a big hitter make mistakes.

Jud_T

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 10:01:40 AM »
Also the highest seed (63) to win since they started seedings in 1985.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Phil McDade

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 10:09:05 AM »
Ben:

Well, I'd be hesitant to criticize Weaver without really knowing what he'd done his previous six (or seven?) times playing that hole. In one of his matches (quarter-finals?), in a playoff he played driver, hit it into the fronting bunker, and made a solid up-and-down birdie to win (to a much tougher pin, according to the announcers). I'm not sure driver there is the wrong choice for Weaver; he just hit a really poor shot. And he clearly had shown -- to me -- that he wasn't the short-iron player from the fairway that Cox was -- Weaver hit an OK but not great wedge to the 17th green, and hit a really poor 8-iron to 18. So maybe he's thinking -- I'm not going to wedge it any closer than Cox from the fairway, so why not go for it and scramble my way to a birdie (as he'd done previously)? Also -- Weaver still had a par putt on the final hole of the match. So Cox wasn't in three-putt territory; he still had to get down in two from a very slippery spot. Of course, Cox's downhill putting the entire week was beyond exceptional, so it wasn't a huge surprise that it went it, and Weaver had to have known that (I was a little surprised Weaver didn't insist on playing first when both players were on the green; he knows if he misses the match is likely over; why not have a run at it for a par and put a bit more pressure on Cox? Weaver was the one who seemed to ask the meet official who was farther out.)

Nonetheless, I was rooting for Cox since the round of 16 (because he plays golf at a college with a hyphen ;D), and his last 9 holes ought to be taped and shown to every young aspiring golfer out there about how to manage your game and play to your strengths. Can David Love named his putter to the Ryder Cup team? ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 10:24:19 AM by Phil McDade »

Jud_T

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 10:18:14 AM »
I'm guessing UTC's recruiting just got a serious shot in the arm from this.  I think the decision to switch to the assistant coach to caddie for the second 18 may have been the difference, dad's blisters aside.  They seemed to have a really good, relaxed rapport and some very good strategy discussions.  Compare that to Weaver and his dad, both of whom looked as if they might spontaneously combust under the pressure at any moment and you have to think the mental game won this one.  Have you ever seen anyone as cool and collected under such intense pressure as Fox was on the last 6 or 7 holes?  It looked like he was playing a 2 dollar nassau with his buddies instead of being on the verge of being closed out in the biggest match of his life.  Very impressive stuff.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ben Sims

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 10:41:00 AM »
Phil,

I disagree.  Weaver lost because he didn't put himself in the moment.  No way anyone should be hitting driver after missng that putt with your opponent in the fairway.  On the playoff hole at Cherry, we aren't talking irons into the green anyway.  Fox had some 70-80 left after hitting iron off the tee.  Weaver is easily 10-20yds closer to the hole with the same club selection as his opponent, and with a much larger margin of error than going for the green.  He subsequently showed on the 3rd shot why being near the green was no guarantee birdie.  he hit a below average chip.  From the fairway, he has a 50-80 yd wedge from a fairway lie with a slight backstop behind the hole.  For those dudes, that is happy hunting.  

I thought it was a terrible decisions, and proof positive why past experience means little once pressure and variables change.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 10:42:38 AM by Ben Sims »

Phil McDade

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2012, 11:00:56 AM »
Ben:

Not to belabor, but...... ;)

Isn't one of the cardinal rules of sports that, under pressure, you go with what's familiar, and tried-and-true? For Cox, who had all the momentum in the world, that meant the same old-same-old on #1 tee: iron to a wide fairway, wedge to green, and trust my white-hot putter. For Weaver -- under pressure from having lipped out a clinching putt, and not having sealed a dormie-2 win -- can't one make the argument that his tried-and-true shot there is the driver? It had worked before, to clinch a win under similar (albiet not final-match) circumstances.

Ben Sims

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2012, 11:10:17 AM »
Phil,

I agree with your assessment...if you agree with mine!  :)

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but there is absolutely nothing I would want to do more than knock a no-nonsense 4-iron down there after missing a match winner and seeing my calm opponent lazily shoot one down there in play.  Look at it this way, forget the horrid tee shot and pretend he hits his drive into the same spot that he hit his second shot.  He still has to make the putt to tie.  Fox won the hole--Weaver didn't lose it.  I'm not implying that he didn't.  But the margin for error was miniscule with the driver. 

John McCarthy

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2012, 11:15:02 AM »
It is a truism in boxing and every other sport that having a father as a coach is not a good thing at the highest levels.  I would not be able to control my emotions if my son was playing for something important.  At times a caddie must loosen a player up which would be hard for a father to do for a son. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Carl Nichols

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2012, 11:17:14 AM »
Weaver seemed very intense... too intense? Fox played within himself.

Could the caddies have made a difference? Dad on Weaver's bag egging him on vs Fox's Asst. Couch from UTC who replaced his dad on the last 18 urging restraint?


Shoulder-bumping your caddy-father after winning a hole struck me as just a bit over-intense.

Phil McDade

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Re: Best Golf on TV
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2012, 11:26:03 AM »
Ben:

Put yourself in Weaver's shoes. He's watched Cox hit a ton of putts, and a bunch of terrific sub-120 yd approach shots, all day long. Cox is sitting in the middle of the fairway (having played first), with a wedge in his hand, and almost likely to be hitting a birdie putt of under 15 feet. Weaver's probably thinking -- odds are pretty good, perhaps better than 50-50, that I have to make birdie here just to stay in the match. I think from his perspective, there's a rationale argument to be aggressive and go with driver in those circumstances. That it didn't work out doesn't negate the strategic choice, in my mind. (Cox, for instance, could've made the choice on 18 tee to go with something less than driver to assure himself a second shot from the fairway. Instead, he hit driver and ended up in a really poor spot, with a lousy lie. That he hit an all-world approach, under tremendous pressure, doesn't necessarily mean he made the right choice on the tee, does it? My assumption, when Cox pulled driver on the tee on 18, was that was how he'd played the hole previously, and with much success. I'd argue the same thing with Weaver; to me there's a difference between bad strategy vs. bad execution.)

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