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Brian Colbert

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Discuss.

Obviously there are a number of factors in play here, including the altitude (I hit a 2-iron on that par 3 which would have been 30 yards over the green had it not been stopped by the rough) and orientation of the holes.

Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »
RE: LPGA, are you talking about #17 playing 217 yards? That is a very small 2 tier green, with water fronting it as well. Even with the tees up and the hole cut in the front, you've got about at 9 yard circle you would have to land it in. You might be able to run it in with a fade played short but it is a very narrow entrance.  Pumpkins other 200+ par 3s have greens that are much much larger in size.

What I didn't like was playing #9 as a par 5. I'm no bigger hitter but that hole is a Driver 4 iron on my worst days.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Josh Tarble

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 02:39:14 PM »
I think this is one of those cases where par is irrelevant. 

Especially what I saw of the AM - 3 was a good score that could possibly win the hole and 4 wasn't awful.  I'm assuming that was the case with the LPGA 2 was a really good score and 3 probably wasn't losing or gaining much on the rest of the field.  Whether that was par birdie or eagle probably didn't make much difference.


I guess my question more so would be to you...as a high-level competitive golfer do you go into holes such as those with a different mindset?  Are you looking to post a number or post vs par?
 

Brian Colbert

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »
Josh,

I try and make the lowest possible score I can on every hole, regardless of par. However, it's hard to accept making double on a par 3 when you just birdied the par 5 before it. Of course I think that's a problem for everyone, not just the high level players  ;D

Josh Tarble

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 03:33:00 PM »
Brian,
I think I worded my question poorly...I assumed that was the case, but I guess I was wondering if you made a 3 on both holes would it matter if one was a birdie and one was par?  Does par even matter to you at that point?

Brian Colbert

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 03:44:43 PM »
It depends. When I make a par on a hole that I think many of the players are going to birdie, you better believe that's going to piss me off. And when I make a par on a hole which I think there are going to be a lot of bogeys, well yeah, sometimes I'm as happy about that as I am about a birdie on other holes.

But who doesn't like making birdies?

That said, back to the original topic, I'm pretty sure even for the LPGA ladies that hole could be played with a pitching wedge off the tee and a sand wedge to the green. I have a tough time calling that a par 4 no matter what is going on with the green.

Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 04:46:42 PM »
The Thursday coverage of the LPGA said 17 was playing as the hardest hole of the day, Tees back, pin back. That hole used to rock my world until I figured out how to play it for my game and I've not taken more than par on it in 20+ rounds since. Cut 3 wood up the left hand side, LW to green, 2 putts.  Driving the green is an option as well when you feel brave.

You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Garland Bayley

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 07:11:38 PM »
Par is of no consequence other than a psychological device to get you to feel good or bad about yourself.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kirk

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2012, 12:58:10 PM »
The Thursday coverage of the LPGA said 17 was playing as the hardest hole of the day, Tees back, pin back. That hole used to rock my world until I figured out how to play it for my game and I've not taken more than par on it in 20+ rounds since. Cut 3 wood up the left hand side, LW to green, 2 putts.  Driving the green is an option as well when you feel brave.



OK Emile, but from the back tees the carry over the creek to the left side is about 250-255 from the back tee.  That's a helluva 3-wood.  Playing from the blues, I usually try to drive over the creek, but sometimes lay up if the pin is in the front.  If the pin is back, I always try to carry the creek, but don't use lob wedge from 50-75 yards.  I always take a less lofted club and try to land it on the front tier and run it to the back.  I believe that is the safe way to play for the back tier.  When the green is firm like it is for the LPGA tournament, you have to hit a crisp spinning shot to land it and keep it on the back tier.

I'm a medium length hitter, maybe carry my driver 235 on good days.  You must be stronger than me.

I don't think the LPGA does a very good job of setting up the hole for the tournament.  The first two days they played it all the way back, 330 and the pin in the back.  The women all play it the same way, laying up and then trying to fly it to the back, and it just killed them.  They averaged about 4.6 with that setup.

The last day they move the tee up to the 224 box and set the pin up front.  Everybody tries to fade a long iron, and almost everybody ends up short to pin high, and left.  Many players then have a short, slightly downhill pitch that has to be played short of the green to get close the hole.  It's a two tier green, with a nice slope between tiers that could be used to redirect the ball down to the hole, but virtually no one (except for Ryu) used it.  Everybody played the tricky second shot directly at the hole.

If I were allowed to set the course up, I would have had the players play from the blue tee (301) the first day or two, which allows the player to drive over the creek if desired and play the bump and run to the back pin, though the player's lack of creativity was noteworthy last weekend.  They probably would still all lay up with 4- and 5- irons.  The last day, the tees should be set at a true driving distance.  The white box is about 275; maybe you play from the front of that box, 265 - 7 = 258.  Make them fade a driver or 3-wood to get close.

I was disappointed with the setup and the lack of player creativity as I watched this hole for several hours.  The players had trouble reading the various rough lies presented, and also made strange decisions when they had to take a penalty drop.  Few players (10-20% ?) who went long got up and down.

It's a very good golf hole for member play, but somehow it doesn't fit LPGA play well.

Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2012, 01:31:11 PM »
John you make great points, that would have made it more enjoyable for all. I rarely play from the tips anyways at PR, and no I don't have a 250+  3 wood.

This is my final thought on that hole....The first round I played wearing a pair of True Linkswear shoes, I hit an iron that went long and right and was just on the bank in front of the pond. Trying to grab my ball to take a drop & and not remembering I was wearing spikeless shoes, I slipped and fell in the pond ended up waist deep in water...so safe to say that hole and #4 have been my enemies for many years.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

David Bartman

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 06:22:48 PM »
Par is of no consequence other than a psychological device to get you to feel good or bad about yourself.


In professional golf, it is also a way for the fan to easily measure how players are playing in relation to one another on different parts of the course. 
Still need to play Pine Valley!!

Garland Bayley

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 06:55:43 PM »
Par is of no consequence other than a psychological device to get you to feel good or bad about yourself.


In professional golf, it is also a way for the fan to easily measure how players are playing in relation to one another on different parts of the course. 

Roughly only.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Carl Johnson

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 06:29:42 PM »
Par is of no consequence other than a psychological device to get you to feel good or bad about yourself.


In professional golf, it is also a way for the fan to easily measure how players are playing in relation to one another on different parts of the course. 

Roughly only.


Also useful when you have one of your "trash" bets for birdies.  ;D

Jordan Caron

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Re: LPGA Safeway Classic: 217 Yard Par 4. US Amateur: 274 Yard Par 3
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 01:24:40 AM »
Par is irrelevant