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Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
the future of the PGA Championship???
« on: August 16, 2012, 09:57:37 AM »
of course I do not know, but...

With the rise of global world golf, I speculate, that there will be not just a clamoring but the force fed creation of a new "major" located in the Pacific Rim.  That might relegate the US PGA Championship to a similar status of the Canadian Open or the Western Open.

I, for one, was a little underwhelmed at Kiawah .... thinking at one point it, in the past, was worth a trip and the $$$ it takes to tee it up there.  I would have to play the course at 6100 yards or so just to have a chance of playing short clubs into those elevated greens and actually holding them.

I would like to play Bandon like courses without the Bandon like weather.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 10:14:29 AM »
Match Play.  That is if they ever want to be anything other than the black sheep of the family...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 10:15:54 AM »


I would like to play Bandon like courses without the Bandon like weather.

Isn't that an Oxymoron?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2012, 10:20:22 AM »
With globalization, I agree that only two of four majors should be in the US.  Not sure what tourney in Asia would be designated as the other major, but feel it will head that way. 

Probably the Japan or China national open, with perhaps them putting up the first billion dollar purse to attract the best field, and if a big name won, it would lend some credence.  That said, there would have to be something done to avoid the image of the LPGA saying "Voila, you're a major because we need one on the schedule" mentality.

It would be somewhat funny to think of the PGA as a "former major" along with the Western Open, but over time, things just change.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2012, 10:21:58 AM »
To me, the interesting thing is what happens to the PGA in 2016.

This year's event was overshadowed by the Olympics by many in the general public.

Four years from now, the Rio Olympics are scheduled to run Aug. 5-21. That year's PGA -- scheduled for Baltusrol -- is currently scheduled to be held in that window. The PGA has been quoted as saying they would at least consider a move to late July.

It's going to be a very crowded golf calendar from July-September of 2016.

You have the Open Championship in mid-July
You have a WGC event at Firestone that top players don't skip because of the no-cut format
You have the PGA Championship at some point in the late-July or in August.
You have the return of golf to the Olympics in August -- an event that may conflict with the PGA.
I assume there will still be the FedEx Cup playoffs.
And then you have the Ryder Cup in September at Hazeltine, an event that can't realistically get pushed back any further because of weather.

If you are an elite golfer from the US or Europe, that becomes a really crowded schedule.




BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2012, 10:36:30 AM »
Personally, I think that if any of the four majors no longer deserves to be a major, then it's the Masters.  It has the smallest and weakest field, its played on the same course each year, and it has the least history behind it by virtue of being the youngest major.  Obviously, that opinion is by far in the minority.  But I found this year's PGA to be much more compelling than the Masters (maybe because I think Bubba Watson is a bit of a d-bag, but that's another story).

I wouldn't be opposed to another major, especially one in Australia.

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 10:46:58 AM »
If it's relevant - and it probably isn't to Americans - but the rest of the world has a great interest in, and emotional attachment to, both The Masters and the US Open.
They have nothing of the sort when it comes to the PGA.
It makes little sense to me to make a new major. Why not stick with the PGA and either move it around the world every few years or every four years and make it the Olympic event?
The Olympic event automatically becomes one of the most significant events in golf and we get away from the scenario of having three out of four majors plus the WGC's all being in America.

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 10:57:00 AM »
Mike C: WINNER, WINNER!!!

Make the Olympics the 4th major in Olympic years and have a rotation to move the PGA to other parts of the globe the other 3, perhaps with North America taking one of the spots evry 4th year.

Pretty simple; IF the PGA of America will go along.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 10:59:21 AM »

I would like to play Bandon like courses without the Bandon like weather.


Sounds like a future tagline for Streamsong.

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 10:59:45 AM »
I am not so sure the Olympics will be that big for golf, it may end up more along the lines of Olympic tennis.  




Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2012, 11:02:12 AM »
I'd be willing to bet heavily that the IOC wouldn't agree to that.

Howard and Carl,

Bandon without the weather is like Pamela Anderson without breasts.  
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2012, 11:12:13 AM »
There's nothing wrong with the PGA, in my opinion. They go to interesting courses (both Modern and Classic), don't goof up the course with stupid amounts of rough, and it has the "strongest field in golf" (hard to argue). It struggles in the minds of some because it doesn't have an "identity" like the other 3 majors...but you know what...it usually produces far more interesting finishes than either of the Opens. Just in the last ~12 years you had Tiger at Valhalla 2000, Rich Beam beating out Tiger at Hazeltine (2002), Vijay in a playoff in Kohler in 2004, Harrington at Oakland Hills in 2008, YE Yang in 2009 at Hazeltine beating Tiger, Kaymer in an exciting finish at Kohler in 2010, and this past year with Rory playing great on a cool oceanfront Pete Dye design.

What exactly is the PGA doing wrong?
H.P.S.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 11:14:13 AM »
There's nothing wrong with the PGA, in my opinion. They go to interesting courses (both Modern and Classic), don't goof up the course with stupid amounts of rough, and it has the "strongest field in golf" (hard to argue). It struggles in the minds of some because it doesn't have an "identity" like the other 3 majors...but you know what...it usually produces far more interesting finishes than either of the Opens. Just in the last ~12 years you had Tiger at Valhalla 2000, Rich Beam beating out Tiger at Hazeltine (2002), Vijay in a playoff in Kohler in 2004, Harrington at Oakland Hills in 2008, YE Yang in 2009 at Hazeltine beating Tiger, Kaymer in an exciting finish at Kohler in 2010, and this past year with Rory playing great on a cool oceanfront Pete Dye design.

What exactly is the PGA doing wrong?

You answered your own question...there is NOTHING wrong with the PGA.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 11:18:39 AM »
It makes little sense to me to make a new major. Why not stick with the PGA and either move it around the world every few years or every four years and make it the Olympic event?

You will never get the American Club Pros to travel !

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 11:20:21 AM »
I'd be willing to bet heavily that the IOC wouldn't agree to that.


Agree to what?  To having their event seen as a major championship in golf?

First of all, the IOC really doesn't have much to say about golf, only on whether it's part of the Olympics or not.  

The international governing body -- the IGF -- are the ones responsible for determining the rules for qualification and the format of the event.  Perhaps the IGF would make a run at running a major each year, moved around the world.  The PGA of America is certainly not going to do that, and they aren't going to give up their "major" status easily.  But, the PGA of America is not as powerful as they used to be, and if Olympic golf takes off, the IGF will be that much more powerful.


Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 11:39:26 AM »
Interesting comments, Tom. I'm having trouble visualizing how Olympic golf will take off - given that it's a one every 4 years event. Are you suggesting qualifying tournaments and the like added to help fuel the Olympic golf game?

My observation is that the Olympic influence can be very strong for sports like (my beloved) Curling, but a lot less influential on established revenue generators like Soccer and Basketball.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »

But, the PGA of America is not as powerful as they used to be, and if Olympic golf takes off, the IGF will be that much more powerful.



I understand what you're saying,but so long as they've got the Ryder Cup,the PGA will get a seat at the table--too much money involved for that not to happen.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 11:43:00 AM »
...and it has the "strongest field in golf" (hard to argue).

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I do with this point. The Players routinely has virtually the entire top 150 ranked golfers (save the occasional Asian Tour or Chubby Chandler client holdout...). And how many ams qualify for either of the two Opens, versus the 25 club pros exempted in the PGA? I think PGA past champs are also exempt till they are 55 or 60 or something like that.

The majors are the majors because they are the measuring stick, the ones that the most pros want to win, therefore they are the most competitive. The oft repeated claim that the Masters has the weakest field is weak itself... Small doesn't mean weak.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 11:47:58 AM »
What exactly is the PGA doing wrong?

Well it obviously struggles being the last of 4 majors as well as a lack of identity as you mentioned.  However I think the big thing (for me) is that the courses are typically underwhelming, this year being an exception.

Future PGA sites:

Oak Hill
Valhalla
Whistling Straights
Baltusrol
Quail Hollow
Bellerive

Hard to get too excited about any of those, except maybe WS...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2012, 11:52:02 AM »
I'd be willing to bet heavily that the IOC wouldn't agree to that.


Agree to what?  To having their event seen as a major championship in golf?

First of all, the IOC really doesn't have much to say about golf, only on whether it's part of the Olympics or not.  

The international governing body -- the IGF -- are the ones responsible for determining the rules for qualification and the format of the event.  Perhaps the IGF would make a run at running a major each year, moved around the world.  The PGA of America is certainly not going to do that, and they aren't going to give up their "major" status easily.  But, the PGA of America is not as powerful as they used to be, and if Olympic golf takes off, the IGF will be that much more powerful.



Details!  OK, let's just say it ain't gonna happen, at least not as the PGA Championship.  I could see the Olympics taking on Ryder Cup-like importance however. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 11:55:07 AM »
I think the big thing (for me) is that the courses are typically underwhelming, this year being an exception.

Future PGA sites:

Oak Hill
Valhalla
Whistling Straights
Baltusrol
Quail Hollow
Bellerive



1/2 of these have also hosted the US Open.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 11:56:28 AM »
Why can't the Olympics just be the Olympics.....

...isn't playing for the Golf Medal enough?  Did anyone watch the Olympics this year and see how genuinely excited the NBA boys were to win a gold medal...they were like little kids.  It didn't have to be packaged as something else, it speaks for itself.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 11:56:32 AM »
...
I would like to play Bandon like courses without the Bandon like weather.

Have you heard of Streamsong? ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 12:00:45 PM »
It makes little sense to me to make a new major. Why not stick with the PGA and either move it around the world every few years or every four years and make it the Olympic event?

You will never get the American Club Pros to travel !

Mike's going at this wrong. The various tours should join to make the world wide tournament. Then we could get rid of that weak sister, the masters, and have real meaningful majors instead of just emotional ones.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the future of the PGA Championship???
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 12:02:53 PM »
I believe there should be six majors.  The players should become one.  The only negative is that it is at the specific course of Sawgrass, and too much like the Masters in that regard.  There are enough major tough venues throughout the deep south in infrastructure rich urban areas to do this in May.  

I think the sixth major should be in Asia, moved around, and be in late Oct or Early Nov.  Like Jeff B states, some major financial purse needs to be put up by some collaboration of corporate or national State powers that be to commit to the first few years guaranteed purse to attract the best, and set it on a prestige footing in the world pro golfer community.  

I agree the Oly golf will be like Oly tennis.  Not that big of a deal, and weak field because they have to let a countries best players in, of whom they aren't nearly the top golfers internationally.  Personally, I'm not past the idea of professionals playing in the Olys anyway.  I'd love to see the Oly's a totally amatuer toon-a-mint which I think would elevate its prestige and impact more than another also-ran field of international stars from Upper New Bangalwala.  Either way, Olys are not a major IMHO.

I have no beef with the whole concept of the PGA as it is now constituted, being a major.  It is a top field of pros, and it is what it is, money-corporate-showcase that it is.  It is a boon to the communities it is awarded to, in my understanding of the financial benefits.
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