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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2013, 11:54:23 AM »
Despite that one encounter, the round at Lawsonia was a golfing highlight -- as fast and firm as I've encountered the course (and I've been going up there for two decades; Mayor Daley confirmed my view -- he's been going up there since the pre-Cambrian era ;D). Fast-running, firm greens and a near-ideal maintenance meld. Fall might be the best time to experience Lawsonia as Langford envisioned it; well worth a round.

That's great to hear, Phil. I'm thinking of taking a trip down in October for a night, assuming the weather holds. Thanks for the report.
H.P.S.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2013, 12:10:22 PM »
Despite that one encounter, the round at Lawsonia was a golfing highlight -- as fast and firm as I've encountered the course (and I've been going up there for two decades; Mayor Daley confirmed my view -- he's been going up there since the pre-Cambrian era ;D). Fast-running, firm greens and a near-ideal maintenance meld. Fall might be the best time to experience Lawsonia as Langford envisioned it; well worth a round.

That's great to hear, Phil. I'm thinking of taking a trip down in October for a night, assuming the weather holds. Thanks for the report.

Pat:

What was really neat were the green speeds; others in the past here on GCA have complained in years previous to slow green speeds there, and there was a great deal of truth in that. But the greens yesterday was pretty darn quick -- and they'd been punched once already (although several weeks ago). Alot of firmness to them, as well, which made me think twice on several approaches.

Pete can weigh in as well, but he's making the rounds of Upper Midwestern courses, and had played the day before at a certain well-known, high-profile course here in Wisconsin (on somewhat holy ground ;)), and reported Lawsonia is running faster and firmer than its better-known brethren.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2013, 04:31:54 PM »
Yes, I will say this may be/probably is the fasted-firmest I've ever experienced the greens at Lawsonia.  I don't think a single ball mark was made, and I don't remember having to repair one that someone else made.  But, they were not over the top speeds for the slopes and completely fair match of speed to slopes.  Also, the FWs were running great, with lots of ball bound and runnout.  The peak color is about 2 weeks away.  I'd say any golf played in the next month at Lawsonia Links Classic would be special by anyone's standards.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2013, 11:12:11 PM »
More than impressed on my only visit. 14 does not set up for a left to right ball flight, but the other 17 holes do. The best way to play Boxcar leaving boxcars out of the equation is to hit a weak fade short right, 58 degree wedge onto the green and go from there.

If raters saw it in Wednesday conditions (F&F) it would climb up. I remember us having a lot of shots finish at the back of the greens or beyond. Conditionwise it seemed at least equal to Erin Hills except for a couple of weak spots on 13, probably from lack of sunlight. Correcting that might help Phil on 14.

I'm glad I didn't review it via photo tour before I played.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2013, 11:44:18 PM »
Was Pete Dye influenced by Lawsonia when he built the 16th hole's San Andreas bunker's grass wall at PGA West Stadium

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 12:19:37 PM »
I spent the last couple of days in Green Lake and got in 4 rounds on the Links Course. It was my first visit since the Mashie ~2.5 years ago and quite a few things surprised me:

1) The golf course is extremely firm & fast. The fairways were running as quick as I had ever seen them. I know it's generally been a dry summer in the Midwest, but it seemed like they've been aggressive topdressing the fairways? There was stray sand everywhere and I noticed that even the "seed mix" in the carts consisted of mostly sand. Yesterday afternoon they were topdressing the greens. I don't know if this is part of a larger effort to keep the course playing fast via "Sand-capping" the course or just general fall maintenance.

2) Those that have complain that the greens are too slow at Lawsonia should of played the course this weekend. They were easily the fastest/smoothest I had ever seen them and they were borderline too fast. We saw some putts roll off greens and approach shots/pitches/chips roll back down false fronts. I would guess that the greens were running at 10 or so. With that some of the larger slopes made for very difficult putts and quite a few three putts when a lag putt had to navigate a significant internal contour.

3) The new tee box(es) on #18 are very well done and make the hole far, far better. Thankfully they tore down that eyesore of a building next to the back tee (that looked like it had sustained fire/water damage the last time I was there). From the new back tee the hole plays ~580 yards and brings both the cross bunkers on the right into play off the tee and a cross bunker on the right in play on the second shot. This is a significant improvement and makes the hole more interesting/tougher for better players.

4) I thought the tree removal behind the 14th green looked good. The hole looks pretty similar from the tee due to the trees in the background along the perimeter, but a lot better when you're standing closer to the green. I thought the green slopes were more notable.

5) I was surprised how many trees they had taken down around the perimeter of the course. You can now see Green Lake from the 14th green/15th tee and you can now see a lot more of the Woodlands Course from the Links Course.

6) They could stand to take out a few more of the trees, in particular the 4 awful trees behind #4 green (very out of place), a few near the landing area on #5, all of the ugly pines near #13 green, and the tree near the fairway bunker on #15.

7) The complex was busier than I had ever seen it. Sunday afternoon there were three groups on every hole on the Links Course. For the first time it seemed that the Links is getting more play than the Woodlands? Changing tastes? Recognition of rankings? The new bar is nice and generally it seems like it's becoming a little more commercialized and geared toward vacation groups of golfers.

The golf course is fantastic (as always), and in as good of condition as I've seen it in ~6 visits and over 20-25 plays. If we get another couple nice days I would recommend driving over for a play.  
H.P.S.

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2013, 12:45:45 PM »
Just how bad is the woodlands course?  

I think I have our (very diverse) group convinced to give Lawsonia a shot next year, and a few are concerned about not having "enough" courses.  I've been working the group to say one great course is better than five poor to average ones (Gull Lake View).  

I know they'll want to play the woodlands some, but I assume it should be limited.  We generally play two days of foursomes and one day of singles for our "team competition" and then have a fun 9 on the first day, and a scramble on the second day where drinks are common.  Ideally, would the Woodlands work as just a scramble course?  

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2013, 12:59:14 PM »
Andrew,

I took a group of guys up to Lawsonia a few years ago for a similar type deal. Before the trip one of my buddies thought we should schedule a round on the Woodlands to "mix it up." After the fact everyone admitted that playing the Woodlands was a mistake and another round on the Links would of been better. The Woodlands is just ok, but compared to the Links it stinks. It would be like assuming Butler & Oak Brook were the same complex, and turning down a round at Butler to go "mix it up" at Oak Brook.

Just my two cents. If the one condition your buddies have to a trip to Lawsonia is a round on the Woodlands...go for it.
H.P.S.

BShannon

Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2015, 03:40:33 PM »
Semi-OT question here.


What is Lawsonia's alcohol policy these days?


I know that they serve beer/wine in the clubhouse now, but do they have a cart girl with beverages as well? Can one fill a bag of beers in the clubhouse and bring them onto the course?


I am heading up there next weekend with a group of 16 for a 3 day/5 round Stay and Play.


I don't drink, but the rest of the group imbibes...heavily.


Any knowledge/advice is appreciated.



PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2015, 04:29:14 PM »
Semi-OT question here.


What is Lawsonia's alcohol policy these days?


I know that they serve beer/wine in the clubhouse now, but do they have a cart girl with beverages as well? Can one fill a bag of beers in the clubhouse and bring them onto the course?


I am heading up there next weekend with a group of 16 for a 3 day/5 round Stay and Play.


I don't drink, but the rest of the group imbibes...heavily.


Any knowledge/advice is appreciated.


Your buddies will have no problem getting Gordon Bombay'd, don't worry.
H.P.S.

BShannon

Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2015, 05:18:06 PM »
Thank you, sir.


P.S. LOVE that reference.

Mike Treitler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2015, 12:17:12 PM »
This conversation ended in 2013 apparently but I just saw it and felt compelled to respond.   I totally disagree that playing the Woodlands is a "mistake".   Its a beautiful and challenging golf course well worth playing.  It is NOTHING like playing Oak Brook.

I just came back from Lawsonia last weekend and although the Links is unquestionably the superior track, I think the Woodlands is definitely worth playing on every visit.  Its what makes Lawsonia such a tremendous destination having two completely distinct and unique tracks on the same property.

Just my two cents for anyone who decides to go up to Lawsonia for a weekend getaway. 


Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2015, 12:59:00 PM »
Mike, I've got to be honest: I've never heard of anyone else having remotely the same take after a visit to Lawsonia. Could you discuss the architectural reasons that a person should consider a round on the Woodlands when Langford's best and best-preserved course, a top 100 contender with a $105 peak season all-day rate is nextdoor? I understand that it's scenic and challenging. So is Argue-ment, and just as I would split 10 rounds in Green County at 10-0 in favor of New Glarus over Argue-ment, I would also split 10 rounds in Green Lake at 10-0 in favor of the Links.


Personally, I can't think of a 36-hole complex with a bigger disparity between its courses. The gap between the Straits and the Irish isn't half as big in my book.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

BShannon

Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2015, 01:40:12 PM »
Thank you both for the input.


We are splitting our rounds 3 (Links) and 2 (Woodlands).


I'll report back on course condition/how to the split went over with the crew after I return.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2015, 03:05:04 PM »
The Woodlands course is beyond awful and not worth playing at all with the Links also on property.
H.P.S.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2015, 03:10:02 PM »
Thinking about 18/36 at Lawsonia on August 3rd.  Anyone interested?
 
Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2015, 03:25:48 PM »
 Love Lawsonia. One of my favorite courses. Whenever I visit my daughter in Madison always make time to get up to Green Lake.


I will be in Wisconsin after Labor Day. Only time for one round and giving some consideration to playing Sentry world. I understand SW is not in Lawsonia's league.  It is also more expensive and a bit further.


 That being said it is always enjoyable to experience a new course if it is worthwhile. Should I consider giving Sentry a shot and for this year forego Lawsonia?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 03:27:37 PM by Cliff Hamm »

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2015, 04:42:46 PM »
Played 36 this past Tuesday at Lawsonia, all 36 on the Links.  Course was great, my first time and absolutely in love with it.  Looking at the old photos of 14 makes me appreciate the holes so much more now.  Not a single tree around it except on right side of path to the green.  Trees were cleared all around 10 green as well.  Very cool playing 13 and you see the greens complexes cascade down the hill from 10 to 13 to 14.  Plenty of alcohol available for those who want some.  Greens were running smooth and fair for their undulations.  Will make this trip again.




Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2015, 03:44:23 PM »
Love Lawsonia. One of my favorite courses. Whenever I visit my daughter in Madison always make time to get up to Green Lake.


I will be in Wisconsin after Labor Day. Only time for one round and giving some consideration to playing Sentry world. I understand SW is not in Lawsonia's league.  It is also more expensive and a bit further.


 That being said it is always enjoyable to experience a new course if it is worthwhile. Should I consider giving Sentry a shot and for this year forego Lawsonia?


Cliff: While I am loathe to recommend anyone skipping a round at Lawsonia Links, I've heard very good reports about the renovation work at SentryWorld -- with the caveat I've yet to play it. Others here on the board have, however, and have reported a really solid round of golf at a course redone and overseen by (I believe) Jay Blasi of Chambers Bay fame.

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2015, 04:33:34 PM »
Thanks, Phil. If I had never played Lawsonia it would be a no-brainer. I am leaning toward SentryWorld and hoping  that those who have played it will chime in.

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2015, 05:08:16 PM »
Lawsonia Links is one of my favorites and think that playing the other course would be a disservice to your time.

Mike Treitler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2015, 08:24:03 AM »
Jason,

There is no question that the links is the better track and if you have one round or two rounds you should stick to the links.  However,  if you are taking a golf trip and not just going there to seek out history I think the woodlands provides great variety and is still a great course despite not bringing anything architecturally significant.  if you are going up there for a trip and have some high handicappers I would not be surprised if they enjoy the woodlands more.   In our group of 10 at least two of them think the woodlands is the Better course.   Obviously I completely disagree but I have always found the disdain for the woodlands on gca severely exaggerated.  It's in great shape, is beautiful with a few holes around the lake and is a great contrast to the links.

It does however have one terrible hole in the par 5 18th but other than that I think it's a nice course.  Not in the same league as the links from an architectural standpoint but it's beautiful and provides a nice challenge and change of pace.   

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2015, 08:53:18 AM »
Those that are judging (or even calling) the woodlands a golf course, must not be aware of any of it's history.

The "Woodlands" course, is a compilation of two different nine hole projects. It's merely a collection of 18 holes with little or no soul as a whole.

The "south nine", as it was called, is the front nine on the woodlands and has some rather unique holes. I can recall feeling it was a lot like a Dick Wilson course, which should be no surprise since I think it's a Joe Lee. Is that correct?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2015, 10:30:24 AM »


The "south nine", as it was called, is the front nine on the woodlands and has some rather unique holes. I can recall feeling it was a lot like a Dick Wilson course, which should be no surprise since I think it's a Joe Lee. Is that correct?


Adam:


Cornish and Whitten lists the Woodlands as a "Joe Lee, Rocky Roquemore" design. My sense is that Lee did the original 9 of the Woodlands, and Roquemore did the second nine and made some revisions to the original nine there.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawsonia update
« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2015, 12:35:50 PM »
I can't imagine missing 1 round on the Links for the Woodlands, SentryWorld, or for that matter the American Club or Erin Hills.  It's that good (and suits my mediocre game and budget better than those overhyped and overpriced tournament tracks).  As one GCA member said when we had the Midwest Mashie there and was shocked at what he saw, "If this course were private and on Long Island, everyone would be falling all over themselves to get out."  Frankly it's going to be a rather tall order for Sand Valley to measure up to this quality and value proposition IMO...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak