[Tommy Williamsen]

I hesitate to call them the lady's tees but for the sake of argument let's call them that.  In the last 40 years I have gone from the back tees, to more forward tees.  In fact at one of my clubs I have moved up two sets of tees which really has been tough on my (large) ego.  My wife has no such option.  She plays from the same set of tees at 66 as she did at 36.  I have suggested that she move up to the caddie walk but resists. (That is what the caddie did at Muirfield)  She just takes an extra shot on most of the holes and is satisfied.  At some courses we play, especially older classic courses, the forward tees are at 5300 yards or more. 
What have women done at your clubs?
Should there be tees about 4500 yards? 

[BCrosby]

Tommy -

We did an informal survey at my club and discovered that the average woman hits shorter than we had assumed. We plan to build a number of new forward tees forward of our current forward tees.

Some men have pushed back at idea on the grounds that multiple tees strung out ahead of them are an eyesore. So we are trying offset some of the new forward tees to the sides of fw's. It will both hide them (somewhat) and make for some  interesting driving choices that don't exist from our regular tees. 

There is no question about the need for them on some of our holes. But 4500 yards as an overall goal sounds awfully short.

Bob 

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:

At the suggestion of two of his retail golfers, a couple from Chicago named the Littles, Mike Keiser asked us to install "light blue" tees at Old Macdonald which reduced the course down to +/- 4500 yards so that seniors could enjoy the course.

Many of these tees are just a flat spot on the fairway itself, which eliminates the "eyesore" issue BCrosby spoke of, and also means that even a topped tee shot will get some roll.  When I've tried the same thing for a forward tee, I've occasionally been told that it's not fair to the women to not get their own "real" tee, but if they examine our back tees closely they will have a hard time telling the difference.

My home club, Crystal Downs, put in beginners' tees in the fairways on every hole, much as described above, to get juniors to start playing the holes from 200 yards instead of 400.  It's been a resounding success.

[Greg Tallman]

Tee pads on both courses at Cabo del Sol are roughly

4700-4800
5800-5900
6300-6400
6700-6800
7000-7100

Have actually had comments from ladies criticizing, perhaps justifiably so, the length of some holes from the most forward tees and we will probably be putting in a few new ones on The Ocean Course while being mindful of the issues noted in the original post.

[Mark Johnson]

we have some green tees towards the front of most fairways on the side of the cart path on 12 or 13 holes.

like the junior tees in the discussion  there are no tees per say, just markers.   You could never tell they are there unless you look for them.

Any lady over 60 has the option of playing from them in club event.  they just have to reduce their handicap by 5 for the event..

[Tyler Kearns]

I've read a few articles citing Alice Dye using a 75% rule of thumb for locating (distance wise) forward tees to accommodate average women golfers. Using this rule, a set of tees at 4,800 yds. / .75 equates to approx. 6,400 yd. golf course. Forward tee at 5,250 yds. would be the equivalent of the average man playing from the 7,000 yd. tees., and if that was the only option available, we know the men would be "up in arms". Fairly certain that the vast majority of golf courses out there are simply too long for the average women golfer, and with the difficulty associated with the game being a deterrent to new players entering the game, more appropriate forward tee yardages could only benefit the growth of the game.

TK

[Ken Moum]

What have women done at your clubs?

Should there be tees about 4500 yards? 

The women at most clubs I am familiar with suffer group insanity.  They generally oppose any new tees, for reasons I am unable to comprehend.

At my mother's club, Mesa CC, they put in some forward tees to shorten it from 5800 yards, and the women refused to play from there. So they sit--unmaintained the last time I was there.

My aunt, however, has been a rabble rouser about this issue, and pretty much refuses to play any course at over about 4900.  If i suggest going somewhere, her first question is, "How long are the forward tees?"

She's convinced my wife, who is now a disciple of Alice Dye who has been insisting that it's silly for women to only have one tee to choose from, when men have two, three or four. She even had some posters made of this http://dyedesigns.com/documents/twoteesystem.pdf graphic to hang up in the clubhouse.  She's been more or less POed all summer, since our new owners eliminated the new 4600-yard markers that were installed last year.  They weren't even formal tees, they were just markers, and the women who liked them were even willing to use flat plates. 

But no luck, and they even had the course re-rated without the forward tees.

What's even sillier is that our (Kansas) Women's GA, rates courses, and rarely rates more than one set of tees for women.  So our college golfers, who play the whites @ 6400 and sometimes the blues, don't know how to post scores... so they don't.  (Of course the USGA has a method to post from unrated tees, but almost no one knows it."

My wife and have the same handicap currently--10--and on our course, there are only a couple of par fours that she has ANY chance of reaching in regulation.

If you think this isn't a problem, look at these charts

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/articles_resources/Men-s-USGA-Handicap-Indexes/

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/articles_resources/Women-s-USGA-Handicap-Indexes/

My 9.6 index puts me at the 75th percentile among golfers with handicaps. Her 10.2 puts her at the 96th percentile. To be equivalent to me, she'd have to be carrying a 20 handicap.

The fact that less than 3 percent of women carry a single-digit index proves to me that golf is too damned hard to be any fun for women.

4500-yard tees would be one great place to start.

[Adam Clayman]

I hesitate to call them the lady's tees but for the sake of argument let's call them that. 

You are correct to hesitate.

Calling the red teeing ground the lady tees, inhibits males who should play forward, from going there.

It's better for the "game" to call them forward tees.   

[BCrosby]

"The women at most clubs I am familiar with suffer group insanity.  They generally oppose any new tees, for reasons I am unable to comprehend."

When it  comes to forward tees, the wimmens in Kansas sound like men most everywhere else.

I have no idea what that means. Just noted for the record.

Bob

[Mike Policano]

Tommy,

The couple that Tom refers to has a website that has information that may be very helpful in understanding forward tee distances. The site is Golf with Women.com. It starts with the premise that the forward tees should take into account how far the average woman player drives the ball.  There are some interesting articles to read on the site.

Cheers, Mike

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy,

It's not an uncommon problem.

At many to most clubs the men have three sets of tees, the women but one.

When I redid Boca Rio I added another set of "women's" tees.

I also tried to remove the gendered nature of the tees and merely have them referred to by their color.

One elderly gentleman approached me one day and was ecstatic, he said that he played the new forward tees and made his first par in several years.

IF making Par is an important consideration for a membership, perhaps they should review their tee location policy.

[Dan Herrmann]

Our club has two tees rated for women and one composite course. Works great.  (The back tees for the gals is also our short tee for the guys - we have 4 tees per hole.

Rating for female players::

White   73.1   132   
Red/White   70.6   130   
Red   69.4   126    34.3 / 121

[Tommy Williamsen]

I hesitate to call them the lady's tees but for the sake of argument let's call them that. 

You are correct to hesitate.

Calling the red teeing ground the lady tees, inhibits males who should play forward, from going there.

It's better for the "game" to call them forward tees.   

Adam, not all forward tees are red anymore.

[Adam Clayman]

I used it as vernacular. Color is immaterial. What's germane is not precluding their use by ego sensitive males.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I used it as vernacular. Color is immaterial. What's germane is not precluding their use by ego sensitive males.

Understand.  My wife just reminds me that the forward tees come in many colors. 

[Doug Wright]

At our club this year we changed tee markers from colors to numbers (1 for back 4 for shortest). The positive effect of players moving up to appropriate tees, including from 3 to 4, has been dramatic.

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