[John Foley]

and get to see all this great architecture we have seen here on GCA lately?

Here is my list of the must see's. There are others but I drew the line of places you can get to quickly and have significant architectural interest. Feel free to add or comment on. This can help Bogey plan & prioritize.

Buffalo
CC of Buffalo (Ross)
Park Club (Allison)

Rochester
Stafford (Travis)
Oak Hill East & West (Ross)
Monroe (Ross)
CCR (Ross)
Irondiqouit (Ross)
Bristol Harbor (RTJ)

Syracuse
Onanadoga (Travis)
Bellevue (Ross)

Rome / Utica / Hamilton / Cooperstown
Teugega (Ross)
Yanandasis (Travis)
Seven Oaks (RTJ)
Leatherstocking (Emmett)

Albany
CC of Troy (Travis)
Old Kinderhook (Rees)

Well from this list you need more than a week!

The cool part is you could keep going east cross over into MA then head down into CT and see Taconic (Stiles & Van Kleek) in Williamstown,  Crumpin-Fox (RTJ) in Bernardston, Orchards (Ross) in South Hadley, Wintonbury Hills (Dye) in Hartford then head all the way down 91 and finish at Yale (Raynor).

That would be one hell of of a trip!

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks John.  I might simply need to retire there, at least during the summer!

Mike

[Ed Homsey]

Thanks, John.  I agree with each of your recommendations, and would add a couple of other courses in the Rochester area:  Midvale Country Club (Robert Trent Jones, Sr's first 18 hole design), and Cobblestone Creek CC (perhaps our best example of modern architecture, by Dr. Michael Hurdzan).  And, while you're heading west, just across the border in southern Ontario, are two Travis gems:  Cherry Hill Club and Lookout Point CC.

[John Blain]

John-

If it were me here is how I would break it out:

BUFFALO:  CCB and Crag Burn

ROCHESTER: Oak Hill E & W, Monroe, CC of Rochester

SYRACUSE: There is truly nothing worth playing

UTICA/ROME: Yahnundasis, Teugega, Leatherstocking, Seven Oaks

ALBANY: Glens Falls CC, Schuyler Meadows Club, CC of Troy, Mohawk GC.

[Peter Pallotta]

John - just to add some youngins' to the mix:

our own Paul Cowley's Orchard Creek (in Altamont/Schenectady) and our own (much missed) Scott Witter's Ironwood (in Buffalo) and Arrowhead (in Akron, NY).

Peter

[Philip Caccamise]

I'd also add Niagara Falls CC (NY- Tillinghast), Whirlpool (ON- Thompson), and Binghamton CC (Tillinghast) to that list.

[Phil McDade]

John:

Ross' Mark Twain GC, in Elmira, a well-regarded muni.

[Mark Saltzman]

Missing the front 9 at Irondequoit in Rochester would be a mistake...

As suggested by JP, Crag Burn is a good choice in Buffalo. Or just talk to RoMo, he knows his WNY golf.

[Ronald Montesano]

I will sorrowfully tell you that there is little Tilly left at Niagara Falls CC and that what is there is a combination of Trent Senior and Cornish. I don't know Binghamton, but I haven't heard rave reviews on it from the treehouse monkeys.

My Erie Canal Trail would go like this:

PRIVATES
Southern Ontario/Niagara Falls CA-->Cherry Hill & Lookout Point
Buffalo/Niagara Falls USA-->CCBuffalo, Crag Burn, Park Club, Stafford (we claim it, since it is halfway between)
Rochester-->CCR, Oak Hills (boaf of dem), Irondequoit, Midvale, Monroe, Cobblestone Creek
Syracuse-->Onondaga, Yahnundasis, Bellevue (Ross)
Albany-->Troy, Mohawk, Olde Kinderhooooookah

PUBLICS
Southern Ontario/Niagara Falls CA-->Niagara On The Lake (oldest course in North America), Whirlpool, Hunters Pointe
Buffalo/Niagara Fals USA-->Seneca Hickory Stick, Diamond Hawk, Byrncliff, Harvest Hill, Arrowhead, Ironwood, Fawn Nine at Deerwood
Rochester-->Greystone, Mill Creek, Durand Eastman
Syracuse-->Timber Banks, Green Lake, Seven Oaks
Albany-->no clue...is there anything? Copake close enough?

[Bart Bradley]

Golf up there is great.  But if the ponies are running, save a day to visit the race track in Saratoga.  Great fun.

Bart

[Philip Caccamise]

I will sorrowfully tell you that there is little Tilly left at Niagara Falls CC and that what is there is a combination of Trent Senior and Cornish. I don't know Binghamton, but I haven't heard rave reviews on it from the treehouse monkeys.

My Erie Canal Trail would go like this:

PRIVATES
Southern Ontario/Niagara Falls CA-->Cherry Hill & Lookout Point
Buffalo/Niagara Falls USA-->CCBuffalo, Crag Burn, Park Club, Stafford (we claim it, since it is halfway between)
Rochester-->CCR, Oak Hills (boaf of dem), Irondequoit, Midvale, Monroe, Cobblestone Creek
Syracuse-->Onondaga, Yahnundasis, Bellevue (Ross)
Albany-->Troy, Mohawk, Olde Kinderhooooookah

PUBLICS
Southern Ontario/Niagara Falls CA-->Niagara On The Lake (oldest course in North America), Whirlpool, Hunters Pointe
Buffalo/Niagara Fals USA-->Seneca Hickory Stick, Diamond Hawk, Byrncliff, Harvest Hill, Arrowhead, Ironwood, Fawn Nine at Deerwood
Rochester-->Greystone, Mill Creek, Durand Eastman
Syracuse-->Timber Banks, Green Lake, Seven Oaks
Albany-->no clue...is there anything? Copake close enough?

Can't argue about much on this list, except the RDGA might take offense from the BuffDGA claiming Stafford.  And I love that you are including my old home course (DEGC) but can't say it's doing well, even though the bones of a fun course are still there. Also, Brook Lea (Ross) could be added as well- one of my favorite clubhouses anywhere!

True on NFCC re: Tillinghast. Still a great course though. And I like Binghamton a lot. It isn't the best Tilly (or even close), but it's still a good course and the Southern Tier needed representation. (Publics, obviously it's Hiawatha.)

Albany publics-> since I didn't find Saratoga National worth the $$$, I'll say the Spa.

[Ed Homsey]

re:  Albany.  Though not great, Albany Muni, across the river from Normanside (which, btw is now semi-private), has some interesting holes, and there are 36 holes at the Town of Colonie course.  Architects who've been involved there are William Mitchell, Trent Jones, sr, and Rick Jacobson.  Fairly typical '60s/70s courses--but a place to play the game if nothing else is available.

Any mention of the Durand-Eastman Park course brings tears to my eyes.  Up to the '60s, it was a terrific public course, set in glacially-carved valleys with one of the finest set of par threes you could find anywhere.  There is still fun to be had there, but it is a mere shadow of its former self.

[Harris Nepon]

Add private club East Aurora Country Club in East Aurora, Stanley Thompson. Home of the international Junior Masters.

A lot of fun to play.

[Ronald Montesano]

I've never heard of Thompson's connection to EACC. It had a bit of work from Wayne Stiles (as per Bob Labbance's book) here: http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/bob-labbance-wayne-stiles-and-east-aurora-country-club/

Russ Tryon added the additional nine holes later. Thompson may have consulted, but I'd think the club would be more public about his work, given the size of his role in GCA.

[Ed Homsey]

East Aurora has a very good golf course, even though you have to share the 17th fairway with the driving range!  For what it's worth, Cornish/Whitten lists William Harries as working with Russ Tryon on the addition of 9 holes there.  The story of Stanley Thompson's involvement there may be similar to reports that he (and his side-kick, at the time, Robert Trent Jones, Sr) did some remodeling at Stafford CC in 1930.  And, Thompson was involved at Onondaga GCC, reportedly.  No one can tell me what Thompson did at Stafford.  There are no club records confirming the report, and the local newspapers, that were reporting every detail of every activity at Stafford, have no reports of a Thompson visit. 

[Harris Nepon]

I was totally wrong about Thompson and east aurora. I thought it was his but i was totally wrong. Sorry

[Ronald Montesano]

Harris, I can't count the number of times I've erroneously attributed something to someone (or vice-versa) on this site. No need to apologize.

[Jay Flemma]

Guys, don't forget the southern tier - Hiawatha and Conklin or Greystone in Rochester.

[Harris Nepon]

Harris, I can't count the number of times I've erroneously attributed something to someone (or vice-versa) on this site. No need to apologize.

Thanks Ron. I blame Matt Bosela for the false information. 

[Dan Herrmann]

How do you think the (seemingly) never ending recession in upstate NY will affect the old-time greats?   Look at Rochester, for example - it's lost Kodak, a lot of Xerox, and other big employers aren't coming in to fill the void.   It seems that all that's left up there is health care (doctors/hospitals/etc) and the service industry. 

In other words, who's going to join and support a great old course like Monroe?

[JNC Lyon]

How do you think the (seemingly) never ending recession in upstate NY will affect the old-time greats?   Look at Rochester, for example - it's lost Kodak, a lot of Xerox, and other big employers aren't coming in to fill the void.   It seems that all that's left up there is health care (doctors/hospitals/etc) and the service industry.  

In other words, who's going to join and support a great old course like Monroe?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/03/opinion/rochesters-survival-lessons.html

Lots of Kodak employees left before the bankruptcy, and they are now working for smaller companies in the area.  We have two folks working for our firm now that are former Kodak employees.  I think you will find this all over the city.

As for golf in Upstate New York, it's very underrated.  And no mention of Ravenwood or Thendara yet?  I've playing Ravenwood a decent amount this summer, and I like it more each time I play it.  It's subtle with a few flashes of boldness.  It has a phenomenal routing, three solid short fours, and its dirt cheap on afternoons.  Thendara is worth a trip for the 7th and 9th greens alone!

My top gilded dozen (and there are a couple I haven't played, like Yahnundasis or CC of Troy):

1. Leatherstocking
2. Oak Hill (West)
3. Teugega
4. Monroe
5. Country Club of Rochester
6. Country Club of Buffalo
7. Irondequoit
8. Seven Oaks
9. Crag Burn
10. Oak Hill (East)
11. Thendara
12. Ravenwood

I've never seen more threads on Upstate NY golf at one time.  Cool!

[John Foley]

How do you think the (seemingly) never ending recession in upstate NY will affect the old-time greats?   Look at Rochester, for example - it's lost Kodak, a lot of Xerox, and other big employers aren't coming in to fill the void.   It seems that all that's left up there is health care (doctors/hospitals/etc) and the service industry. 

In other words, who's going to join and support a great old course like Monroe?

You would be shocked at the resiliency of the workforce here given the demise of Kodak and the downsizing of Xerox.

Last I heard Monroe was full with a waiting list and Irondoqouit beefed up it's membership thru the Natiowide tour and some "deals" to get some new blood in. Pretty sure given their pedigrees Oak Hill & CCR are bullet-proof.

[Dan Herrmann]

Awesome news!

[Ian Andrew]

And, Thompson was involved at Onondaga GCC, reportedly. 

Did plan for major renovation - nothing ever built because depression came very soon after.

[Tim Martin]

How do you think the (seemingly) never ending recession in upstate NY will affect the old-time greats?   Look at Rochester, for example - it's lost Kodak, a lot of Xerox, and other big employers aren't coming in to fill the void.   It seems that all that's left up there is health care (doctors/hospitals/etc) and the service industry.  

In other words, who's going to join and support a great old course like Monroe?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/03/opinion/rochesters-survival-lessons.html

Lots of Kodak employees left before the bankruptcy, and they are now working for smaller companies in the area.  We have two folks working for our firm now that are former Kodak employees.  I think you will find this all over the city.

As for golf in Upstate New York, it's very underrated.  And no mention of Ravenwood or Thendara yet?  I've playing Ravenwood a decent amount this summer, and I like it more each time I play it.  It's subtle with a few flashes of boldness.  It has a phenomenal routing, three solid short fours, and its dirt cheap on afternoons.  Thendara is worth a trip for the 7th and 9th greens alone!

My top gilded dozen (and there are a couple I haven't played, like Yahnundasis or CC of Troy):

1. Leatherstocking
2. Oak Hill (West)
3. Teugega
4. Monroe
5. Country Club of Rochester
6. Country Club of Buffalo
7. Irondequoit
8. Seven Oaks
9. Crag Burn
10. Oak Hill (East)
11. Thendara
12. Ravenwood

I've never seen more threads on Upstate NY golf at one time.  Cool!

Man there is a lot of good stuff to see up there!

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