[Mike Viscusi]

Yesterday I found myself reading (again) Ran's description of the 7th at Ballyneal in his course review.  I started pouring over photos and aerials of the hole because I found it so fascinating and unique.  It got me thinking, what are the most unique holes of modern times (lets say in the last 20 years)?  Holes that really make you stop and analyze them because they either look or play (or both) so differently from what we consider "normal".

In addition to 7 at Ballyneal, I thought of #5 at Boston GC, #10 at Friar's Head, #14 at Bandon Trails and #16 at Inniscrone that I find to be very unique.

What holes do you consider to be the most unique of the past 20 years?  And for those who do this professionally, what is your most unique hole?

Do you think modern GCA's are less likely to incorporate such unique holes in their designs for fear that they will not be accepted?  Is it easier to just play it safe?  Or are there less unique holes in more recent designs simply because almost everything has been done at this point that isn't a complete gimmick?

Do more experienced GCA's with bigger reputations have more freedom in this regard?  Would Doak, Hanse, Coore/Crenshaw have built the above mentioned holes if those courses were in the beginning of their careers?

[Tim Gavrich]

#15 at Ballyhack, "short porch" and all. So cool.

[Jud_T]

Old Mac #7
Kingsley #9, #13
Pac Dunes #6

[Bruce Wellmon]

During Dixie Cup last year we saw several split fairways from Lester. In addition to #15 at Ballyhack, I rather liked #9 at Kinloch.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

16th at Bandon Dunes..Hard to stay focus on that golf shot...I'll also throw in 17 at Cabo Del Sol Ocean (maybe just outside of the 20 year mark..

[Sven Nilsen]

You could probably take a few holes from each of the courses noted below for this list, but these are the ones I went with:

Bandon Trails 5
Bandon Dunes 16
Chambers Bay 12
Lost Dunes 4
Arcadia Bluffs 11
Blackstone 14
Talking Stick North 12
Wine Valley
Barnbougle 4
Lost Farm 5
Hawktree 3
Erin Hills 15
St. Andrew's Beach 8
Lakota Canyon 18
Wolf Run 16
Greywalls 5


Unique doesn't always mean good:

Whistling Straits 5
Harvester 18



PS - Nothing can be the "most" unique, its either unique or its not.

[Michael George]

In order (all Moderns, did not consider the last 20 years):

(1) #7 at Old Macdonald (cool to have the most unique golf hole that I have ever played on a template course)
(2) #7 at Ballyneal (the most unique green I have ever seen)
(3) #12 at Bandon Trails (the mound to the right of the green is very unique - at least in my experience)
(4) #13 at Dismal River (the approach to the right green and the huge bank shot to the right of the green)
(5) #5 at Pete Dye GC (the blind 2nd shot aiming at the smokestack and the unique green)
(6) #3 at Calusa Pines (short par 3 with very unique green)
(7) #8 at Dunes Club - the last 80 yards with its green hidden behind the hill

Is #5 at Muirfield Village unique with its split fairway after dogleg

I wanted to say #4 at Sand Hills.  It does not look unique, but I cannot compare it to any other hole.  Any help?

Jud - I love #6 at Pacific Dunes, but it is very similar to #8 at Calusa Pines.... as I am sure many of my choices are.

Sven - disagree on most unique.  Every hole incorporates ideas from other holes.  Nothing is totally unique.  There are degrees.

[Sven Nilsen]

Michael:

Keep on modifying your absolutes.

Under your analysis, there isn't a single "unique" golf hole in the world.  There may be holes that are less similar to any others , but that doesn't make them unique.

Its kind of like saying something is the most complete, or two things are the most equal.  They're either complete, equal, unique or not.

[Kalen Braley]

Unique holes I've seen here in the PNW:

Black Rock: #11
Gozzer: #12
Wine Valley: #5
Antler Springs: #11
Chambers Bay: #10

[Jim Colton]

Speaking of the 7th at Ballyneal, I spent most of the week a couple of weeks ago "working" during the day in one of the offices at Ballyneal. During the downtimes, I was able to pour through old blueprints, topos, etc, and stumbled across the original conceptual routing sketch for the club (Concept "B" was posted on that Kyle Henderson thread that resurfaced recently; this was Concept "A".) Most of the back nine was largely intact, but holes 4-7 were very different. Number 7 was a 230-yard par 3 -- I think playing to the bowl in front of current green, but I could be wrong. I shudder to think of a world without the E-green, and am glad that Tom took the time to figure it out. I believe Concept B had it as a dogleg right par 4 playing to where the 8th tee is now.

Maybe it's a separate thread, but any other examples of unique and/or great holes being discovered very late in the game?

[JLahrman]

I have not played Tobacco Road, but based on the pictures and comments in other threads I can't believe I haven't seen any holes from that course listed yet.

[Mark McKeever]

Boston Golf Club-Hole 5
Galloway National-Hole 4
Inniscrone-Hole 16
Glen Mills-Hole 8
French Creek-Hole 15
White Manor-Hole 2


Mark

[Mike Viscusi]

Boston Golf Club-Hole 5
Galloway National-Hole 4
Inniscrone-Hole 16
Glen Mills-Hole 8
French Creek-Hole 15
White Manor-Hole 2


Mark

Good call on Glen Mills #8.  You could maybe make the case for 7 there as well (and probably 11 but I don't want to get people all riled up). 

French Creek 15 I'd agree with as well, although I found it to be a little disappointing in person.  I might throw the 3rd at Applebrook in there.  Seems like Hanse designs have at least one unique hole per course..

What do you think is unique about #2 at White Manor?  I like the hole a lot but don't recall anything about it that would make it unique.  I'd say 4 might be their most unique hole.

[Michael George]

Michael:

Keep on modifying your absolutes.

Under your analysis, there isn't a single "unique" golf hole in the world.  There may be holes that are less similar to any others , but that doesn't make them unique.

Its kind of like saying something is the most complete, or two things are the most equal.  They're either complete, equal, unique or not.

Sven:

Every golf hole in the world is unique as it is impossible to completely replicate a golf hole.  At the same time, no golf hole incorporates only unique features (ie. every golf course incorporates design elements from other holes).  Thus, I think there is a scale of how unique each golf hole actually is.

For instance, Bandon Trails #5 is a Biarritz green.  Is it like any other Biarritz hole that I have ever played - no.  Do I find the hole unique, yes.  However, it incorporates that design idea and therefore is not entirely unique.

Only 2 lawyers could get into a discussion about what is "unique".

[David Stewart]

I have not played Tobacco Road, but based on the pictures and comments in other threads I can't believe I haven't seen any holes from that course listed yet.

This is absolutely true. You could say 1,5,6,9,11,13,15,16,17,18 are all unique holes. I haven't played anything much like them.

[Dan Kelly]

Sutton Bay has/had (alas) a bunch of holes of which I've never seen the likes elsewhere (e.g, 4, 8, 9, 16 -- plus numerous other greens), but the one that stands out as "unique" is No. 2.

Dramatically downhill short par-3, with a LONG (50 yards?), skinny green, canted from front to back and from right to left. Big falloff left. Nasty bunkers right and rear. Front hidden from tee view. Blind downhill-sloping landing area short of green.

I don't know how you can have much more fun in golf than hitting deliberately short of the green, for a front or middle pin (or even a back pin, downwind!), and waiting for the ball to reemerge (or not) on the green, rolling, rolling, rolling, stopping.

From the tee (the late Peter Garske, R.I.P.):



From left of the green:



A middle-back pin, from the right fringe:



The ridge before the back-left shelf:

[Stephen Davis]

Speaking of the 7th at Ballyneal, I spent most of the week a couple of weeks ago "working" during the day in one of the offices at Ballyneal. During the downtimes, I was able to pour through old blueprints, topos, etc, and stumbled across the original conceptual routing sketch for the club (Concept "B" was posted on that Kyle Henderson thread that resurfaced recently; this was Concept "A".) Most of the back nine was largely intact, but holes 4-7 were very different. Number 7 was a 230-yard par 3 -- I think playing to the bowl in front of current green, but I could be wrong. I shudder to think of a world without the E-green, and am glad that Tom took the time to figure it out. I believe Concept B had it as a dogleg right par 4 playing to where the 8th tee is now.

Maybe it's a separate thread, but any other examples of unique and/or great holes being discovered very late in the game?

Jim,

I am glad you posted this, as I wasn't aware of it. The 7th at Ballyneal is one of my favorite holes I have ever played. I can remember more about this hole than any other on the course. And that is saying something considering there are many great holes!

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