[David_Elvins]

For those that have played Pine Valley, how much fun was it? 

It doesn't make Golf Digest's list of Top 50 Most fun private courses and I find that hard to believe.  I would imagine a heap of fun shots to be played at Pine Valley and always thought that it was probably the way it balanced difficulty and fun that made it the world's best.  Am I way off base? Is it a fun course to play? 

[Mike_Cocking]

Well I had a lot of fun David.  The green complexes are unbelievable so I found lots of fun and interesting putting, chipping and approach shots and for me I hit the ball far enough not to be bothered the carries off the tee.  I assume because of these carries and the course generally not being so playable for a reasonable number it doesn't figure in the ratings. 

[archie_struthers]

 

Great  fun here.  It becomes even more fun as your skill level increases. 

The expectation of shooting a low score is generally not achieved, so if scoring is what makes it fun, it doesn't make the grade. However , it is not a boring slog of ridiculously hard holes by any stretch of the imagination. Many times a player will make some pars and birdies (lots of fun) but sooner or later takes a header.

For architecture fans, it is a case study in cool!

[Ronald Montesano]

Motive plays a big part in visiting any iconic course.

If you're there to bag a pelt, you'll bag a pelt.

If you're there to learn, you'll learn.

I suspect that, if the club would allow, I'd try to play 36 holes at the club. The first round, I'd go to the front of the most forward tees and play. The second round, I'd hit from the tee markers. That would give me a chance to both have fun and be tested.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Very much fun indeed, the combination of enjoying the architecture, the conditioning and the challenge it provides make it one of the most enjoyable courses anywhere.

[Ed Brzezowski]

How many other courses do you drive by an amusment park on the way into the club??

I think Michael is correct, the fun is in the journey around the course .  Looking and seeing the angles to the greens that approach shots must take. The greatness of the greens and the surrounds. Hell it's just fun being invited to play there.

Worked the Philly Open there a few weeks ago, most of the players were grinning ear to ear.

[Mark McKeever]

Pine Valley is an absolute blast and I was also surprised to see it not finding its way up on that list.  The better the player, the more fun it is because you really need to think your way around the course.  I have never had to rely on a caddy to help me read putts as I have playing PV.  The greens are incredibly tricky and you really need to look at putts from different directions to fully understand how the undulations are going to move the ball. 


Mark

[Sean Leary]

Because of its notorious reputation of difficulty, I would find it difficult to see how GD could put it on a fun list, even if it belongs, which I think it does.

[Chris Roselle]

  I had the chance to play it the Sunday before the GAP Open and it was the first time I had played the course from all the way back and under near tournament conditions.  I have never enjoyed entering a score in the 80's so much after the round.  I grinding my way to an 87 and had fun doing it the whole way around.  From the first tee shot to the last putt it is an experience like no other and the most fun I have ever had.  There is not a bad SHOT on the golf course and I thoroughly enjoy having to think about every single swing.  I think what also needs to be taken in acount when rating how fun a course is is all the other things involved (ie staff, practice facilty and other peripheral things) and PVGC tops the list on many of those catagories that don't have anything to do with the golf course itself.  The history, architecture, staff and the PV experience is the best there is.

[Tom Ferrell]

It's really fun.  The menu of shots and decisions keeps you engaged from the opening tee shot to the final approach.  The eye candy is sweet and sticky.  The mental test is stern, but the course will yield to many types of attacks, as long as they are well planned and executed and the golfer does not over-respect his abilities.  The history element adds depth and emotional heft to the experience, although the club experience NEVER overwhelms the golf experience (I have been to other fine clubs where this is most certainly not the case). 

It's like playing golf in a living museum.  Not one of those stuffy, diorama hush-hush museums, but one that is fully interactive and brings relevance and living history into the equation.

Pine Valley is one of the most fun golf courses in the world, IMO.

[Ari Techner]

I think Pine Valley deserves to be on any list of most fun golf courses to play.  I personally think its reputation of difficulty is overblown.  It is a hard course but it is very fair and it is not hard imo compared to some other courses I have played with more hazards and tighter fairways.  I find Pine Valley to have wide fairways that are easy to hit and tough, well guarded greens.  A similar combination to most great golden age courses.  It also has a personality all its own.  Definitely fits my definition of fun.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I don't think it's "fun".

I think it's enjoyable, but not fun.

There's too much pressure to execute without encountering dire results that can ruin your score, and that's not fun.

Let's stop all the warm fuzzies and not forget that teeing it up and playing is about trying to shoot the lowest score possible.

Pine Valley wasn't created to be a "fun" experience, it was created to provide a stern test to the championship golfer, and it succeeds in that endeavor.

It's not a stand-up comedy act, it's a difficult, often penal golf course that's anything but fun, unless you like to skip down the fairways humming your favorite tunes.

[William_G]

good question David...have not played it, but it does look fanatastic while at the same time very difficult/penal for the average golfer

[Mark McKeever]

Pat,

To me (maybe im crazy), testing my skills on a golf course is fun.

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

To me (maybe im crazy), testing my skills on a golf course is fun.


Mark,

Let me know how many competitors, trying to qualify for the Crump, you see laughing and having a "fun" time.

It's a grind where the golfer has to be constantly vigilant, never letting his guard down or allowing his concentration to wander.

It's anything but fun.

What's fun is being a part of the event.

On a non-formal competitive basis, I always have a good time at Pine Valley due to the company, the course, the facilities and service.
I enjoy playing the golf course, it's very special, but it's not an "all laughs" type of golf course.

I'd cite courses like Wild Horse, NGLA, Maidstone, Firestone West, courses at Bandon and others as "fun" courses.
But, Pine Valley is a very difficult, punitive golf course where one errant thought or swing can ruin your round/score.

I don't consider the approach into a back pin at # 1 as fun.
same for the approaches into #  8, 13, 15, 16 and 18.
Ditto the tee shots at # 2, 3, 5 and 14.
In addition, depending upon hole locations, approaches, recoveries and putting can be anything but fun.

Sitting safely in the clubhouse, one can recount the fun they had, but standing on the tee at # 5 and # 14, with a nice breeze challenging the golfer, I don't think the word "fun" pops into their mind.

Ditto a downhill putt for bogie on holes like # 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9,  10, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 17.   

[Mark McKeever]

Pat,

I think tournament golf at PV is different.  Colbert has played PV in both tournaments and liesure (as have others on the site).  Maybe one of those guys will comment.

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

I think tournament golf at PV is different.  Colbert has played PV in both tournaments and liesure (as have others on the site).  Maybe one of those guys will comment.

Mark,

Everyone has their own concept of "fun"
I can only relate my experiences and perspectives.

You may recall a post where I mentioned that one fellow in my group made a medal play bet with me on the first tee.
After a disastrous first hole where his margin of error was minimal, he called the bet off.
His score was ruined before he finished the 1st hole.

That can happen on any and every hole at Pine Valley, and the golfer has to be constantly vigilant, mentally and physically.

There's a constant tension that tends to diminish the "fun" aspect of playing there.

More than "fun", I think the word, "thrilling" is more appropriate.
I say that in the context of the view of the holes, the challenging shots faced and the exuberance associated with successfully executing those shots.

[Ed Brzezowski]

I could be talked into thrilling as a good description, but I do believe there is a difference between the events and chucklehead golf at PV. Even Mr Jones saw the difference between the two.

I really believe it changes with the number of rounds played there. Pat is gunning for a low score, a mid capper is shooting for respectability . A high capper is hoping to get out alive and visit the pro shop. The more you play it your ideas as to fun change. Pat plays it a lot and after a number of rounds it may lose the "wow" factor. Guests see things at my home course that I have grown blind too.

It all depends upon your goal.

Ed

[Terry Lavin]

I'd like to be able to answer the question, but have not yet been tapped on the shoulder for that invite...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed, David, Mark, et. al.,

I have a great time when I go to Pine Valley.

I have fun with my fellow golfers/competitors.

I enjoy playing the golf course, it's an ultimate challenge.

But, the constant tension associated with playing the course erodes the element of fun.

Ed,

I don't think there's much "chucklehead" golf played at Pine Valley.

Playing Pine Valley is a task taken quite seriously by all those that I've encountered there.

Golfers at Pine Valley seem intent on playing their best and not being humiliated.

[Jon Wiggett]

I found it great fun and for a low handicapper a truly brilliant course. As already said lots of shot making required and outstanding green complexes. Only downer was way too many forced carries to be considered a great course for all standards of player in my book.

Jon

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jon,

Pine Valley was never intended to cater to "all standards" of golfers.

It was intended to present a considerable challenge to the championship golfer with some concession to the lesser golfer.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Ok Pat while I respect your opinion I must disagree, at least based upon my limited experience.

I have a very good friend who takes me over once a year for a day at PV, short course, lunch and then the big course. One year I took a friend who is beyond serious, this guy thought and grinded over every shot. A good shot was a fist pump and a bad one ended in a scowl. We both shot 83 and I was as happy as a clam, my friend fretted over the shots left on the course. Very well mannered but he wore his heart on his sleeve. I smiled my way around since I never thought I would ever play the course. A long way from public golf.

Want to guess who I was told was not welcome the next year ?

I care what I shoot and try my best, how ever I really enjoy a good walk on a great course. Played Merion last week and bunkered myself to a smooth 86. Still smiling and being a chucklehead. Joked with the caddies and had a great time with my friends. a smooth par from the left rough capped the day, along with too many Pine Valleys.

I think you can care what you shoot, try your best, and still not look like you are passing a kidney stone. Maybe I am too far gone at this point, but I would rather smile my way around a fair course than  get a migraine at a great one.

ed

[Tim Martin]

I don't think it's "fun".

I think it's enjoyable, but not fun.

There's too much pressure to execute without encountering dire results that can ruin your score, and that's not fun.

Let's stop all the warm fuzzies and not forget that teeing it up and playing is about trying to shoot the lowest score possible.

Pine Valley wasn't created to be a "fun" experience, it was created to provide a stern test to the championship golfer, and it succeeds in that endeavor.

It's not a stand-up comedy act, it's a difficult, often penal golf course that's anything but fun, unless you like to skip down the fairways humming your favorite tunes.

In every definition I encountered of fun and enjoyable or enjoyment said terms are used as synonyms for each other. As with any club the lion`s share of the golf being played is social. Pine Valley is no different than many of the other iconic clubs in that there is a lot of guest play. Not all the guests are blessed with single digit handicaps and I can`t imagine that some blow up holes and bad shots ruin the experience or make it not fun. Maybe the card and pencil types feel serious amounts of tension but I bet if you were to take a poll most of the players had fun or if you prefer felt enjoyment. Can anybody see this exchange taking place"Hey Joe would you like to play Pine Valley next Thursday? You know Pete,thanks a bunch but I`ll pass. It`s just not a fun experience for me and being that it was created to provide a stern test to the championship golfer and that it doesn`t make me want to skip down the fairway humming my favorite tune I think I am going to play Mahjong with my wife instead."

[ward peyronnin]

I have played once at Pine Valley and while it was fun for me to realize a dream of seeing this level of golf course on the ground i would not by any stretch call it a fun golf course to PLAY. Fun to see, consider, take in but I agree with Pat Mucci that there is always a level of tension on a course like this; always.

I know cause I play Victoria regularly. There is not a hole there where you can allow distraction or lack of focus to enter into your swing. It is rewarding playing there and playing well but my concept of a fun golf course is where you have generous playing area and lines of play that allow "cool" shots to be attempted and executed and rolls that enlarge shots but don't leave you in jail regularly etc but not margins of error in the scale of inches.

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