[Ronald Montesano]

It's great that Matt has a paid gig. Don't want to go to the well too often.

Since all but Patrick have been waiting for my dux on this matter, I'll be brief:

There will be peace in the valley (sorry, Elvis mix is on at B&N coffee shop)

We'all could come up with 100 BBFYBITUSA pieces and none would be shot down. There are that many good courses and you'uns are terrific list compilers. I salute Matt's list and encourage y'all to fill this thread with your own lists. The only flaw to Matt's list is, you couldn't hit it efficiently in one trip, if banging for your buck were the first criterion.

[Adam Clayman]

Adam,

Pacific Grove is a nice value (especially for the area) but do you really think the course as a whole is at the same level as these courses? I certainly would not put it in this class....

Sean,

As my post intimated, it depends on your definition of "bang".

Playing along the coast of the Monterey Peninsula is pretty big bang. I played it over a thousand times and it kept my interest, every time.  So yes, I do think it deserves mention when associating price to golf. It's a huge value.

[Matthew Sander]

Ronald is right, everyone on this board could have their own list and they would all be worth a look. As much as we like to lament certain aspects of the world of golf and its courses, there are plenty of great values to be had.

My two cents...

The Trophy Club (Lebanon, IN) - I've said plenty about this course before, but $59 for 36 holes is hard to beat. Tim Liddy made the most out of this site, using the existing landforms to create interest and variety. I'm about 3 hours away and if a year goes by that I don't play TC I'm a little disappointed.

Gibson Bay (Richmond, KY) - Looking at their website, it seems they've jacked up their rates...all the way to $15 weekdays and $24 weekends (with a ridiculous twilight of $10). I haven't played Gibson Bay in about 10 years, so I'd be interested to hear how they are doing these days. When I was in the area, it would occasionally be a bit crowded and slow. However, more often than not it wasn't an issue.

Keller Golf Course (Maplewood, MN) - When I lived in the area, it was typically in really good shape. You get the feel of a classic golden age course with the dedicated clientele of a beloved muni, a great vibe that I hope remains following Richard Mandel's work and the construction of the new clubhouse.  

[Jason Thurman]

Matthew, it's been about four years since I've played Gibson Bay, but I think it's the best course I've ever played for under $24 and maybe the best municipal facility I've ever seen. It's a great asset to the community of Richmond and a genuinely good golf course in spite of its tiny pricetag. I've always been most impressed by how good of condition they keep the greens in despite such high levels of play. I played it often while getting my Masters at EKU. As a complex, it reminds me a lot of CommonGround. It's probably not quite as good of a course, but reasonably close.

We're also in agreement on The Trophy Club. I recall Matt being a big fan of that one as well and am a little surprised it didn't make his list.

There's a case to be made for The Harvester in Iowa. For that matter, the aforementioned CommonGround could probably make a case as well. Still, I'm not sure that I'd bump anything on the list for any of the courses I've mentioned above.

[Derek_Duncan]

This is a heck of a good list. There are others that could fit in, sure, but I'd be happy to play a rotation of these for the rest of my days.

[Matthew Petersen]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry 

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

I really like Southern Dunes, but int the high season it's well into the triple digits to play there. Not much value, though it is a good course.

I don't think Vista Verde is quite as expensive, though I wouldn't be surprised if it too is over $100 in the winter.

[Kalen Braley]

I think even more impressive would be to put together a list of courses you could play for under $40 in non twilight peak season.

Between Spokane and Utah, I know a few that would be high on that list.

[Chris DeNigris]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry  

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

I really like Southern Dunes, but int the high season it's well into the triple digits to play there. Not much value, though it is a good course.

I don't think Vista Verde is quite as expensive, though I wouldn't be surprised if it too is over $100 in the winter.

Matt,

I've played SD a few times and always in the end of April shoulder season. Latest was a couple of years ago and it was just over $100 for all day golf with full use of the facilities (nice clubhouse). Most of the other A list publics in the area were nearly double that, except for V V which was about the same as Dunes but the facilities are a little more "rustic". Both amongst the very best of the Phoenix value scale for very good golf, IMO.

At the same time of year The Rim at $75 for multiple plays is pretty darn good as well.

[Matthew Petersen]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry  

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

I really like Southern Dunes, but int the high season it's well into the triple digits to play there. Not much value, though it is a good course.

I don't think Vista Verde is quite as expensive, though I wouldn't be surprised if it too is over $100 in the winter.

Matt,

I've played SD a few times and always in the end of April shoulder season. Latest was a couple of years ago and it was just over $100 for all day golf with full use of the facilities (nice clubhouse). Most of the other A list publics in the area were nearly double that, except for V V which was about the same as Dunes but the facilities are a little more "rustic". Both amongst the very best of the Phoenix value scale for very good golf, IMO.

At the same time of year The Rim at $75 for multiple plays is pretty darn good as well.

Hi Chris,

The courses at WeKoPa run similar rates as Southern Dunes pretty much all year. SD is certainly cheaper than other Troon-run courses in the region, but there's plenty of good golf that can be had at the same rate as SD.

Ultimately, there's probably nothing in the Valley that can ever really qualify as a really great bang for your buck ... unless like me you're crazy and don't mind playing when it's 115 (I am in fact getting ready to schedule a tee time for tomorrow! Forecast high a balmy 117). The likes of Southern Dunes, Vista Verde, WeKoPa, and some of the nice west side tracks like Verrado and Estrella Mountain would be the best options within the Valley, IMO.

As for the Rim, are they still taking public play? I got up there once a couple summers ago, but my impression was they had closed their doors again. Our family has a cabin half an hour east of there so if access is available, I'm eager to know it.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'm playing Raven @Verrado tomorrow at 730am when it will be about 90 then and 100 or so by noon. $29 or $39 with a $15 food credit. That's a value!!!!

[Greg Tallman]

I'm playing Raven @Verrado tomorrow at 730am when it will be about 90 then and 100 or so by noon. $29 or $39 with a $15 food credit. That's a value!!!!

Once past the boring opener I found this course enjoyable and would certainly call it a value at those rates. Preferred Estrella Mountain Ranch but have no idea what their rates might be,

[Tim Pitner]

Great list.  But I think Commonground *has* to be on it for it to be complete.

I tend to agree but it looks like Matt is going for some diversity across architects and geography, thus only 1 Doak course and only 1 course from Colorado.

[Ben Voelker]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry 

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

Chris rings the bell with Lulu. A fantastic option and to get it around twice for $58 is truly a bargain!

I couldn't agree more on Lulu, $58 is a steal, especially in this area.  However, my understanding is that it will go private again before long once they achieve their membership goals.

Matt being a New Jersey guy, I am kind of surprised he did not mention Knoll West, which tops out at $89 for non-residents on weekends with a cart, which is cheaper than many public options in North Jersey.

[Tim Martin]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry  

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

Chris rings the bell with Lulu. A fantastic option and to get it around twice for $58 is truly a bargain!

I couldn't agree more on Lulu, $58 is a steal, especially in this area.  However, my understanding is that it will go private again before long once they achieve their membership goals.

Matt being a New Jersey guy, I am kind of surprised he did not mention Knoll West, which tops out at $89 for non-residents on weekends with a cart, which is cheaper than many public options in North Jersey.

Ben-Knoll West has some nice deals after 1:00 and 3:00 if I`m not mistaken and I know you are a big fan.

[David_Tepper]

Any love for Hominy Hill, Monmouth County, NJ?

[archie_struthers]

 

Matt has always been a big fan/supporter of Twisted Dune, and his praise for the golf course is much appreciated. Obviously it's much harder to take care of a busy golf course, so  deserved kudos to all the staffs who run these golf courses so well!

I'd like to have a fall outing at Twisted , and will do some planning for same. Perhaps we can have it Saturday  afternoon before the Crump Cup  final, as we are less than an hour from PV . Accommodations at the shore are quite reasonable post labor day, and the weather tends to be perfect.   Let's do it !   

I'll get a few volunteers to help me organize, and  make it a good party .

[Ben Voelker]

In the Valley of somewhat overpriced golf I'll 2nd Vista Verde but I'd put Southern Dunes a notch above for value.

Lulu for $58 all day gives PA an entry  

I haven't played it but isn't Montauk Downs worthy?

Chris rings the bell with Lulu. A fantastic option and to get it around twice for $58 is truly a bargain!

I couldn't agree more on Lulu, $58 is a steal, especially in this area.  However, my understanding is that it will go private again before long once they achieve their membership goals.

Matt being a New Jersey guy, I am kind of surprised he did not mention Knoll West, which tops out at $89 for non-residents on weekends with a cart, which is cheaper than many public options in North Jersey.

Ben-Knoll West has some nice deals after 1:00 and 3:00 if I`m not mistaken and I know you are a big fan.

Tim,

Absolutely.  $55 after 3:30 walking and in my experience it is practically deserted at that time.  What a bargain...

[John McCarthy]

I played the Warren Course this morning.  It was 35 bucks walking.  And GCAer Ken Fry was kind enough to give me a mini tour (Ken was the first pro there). 


Warren is a wonderful course at  any price.  I was alone out there and kept putting after holing out because the greens were so darn fun. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Kalen:

Here's GD's list of the 10 best deals in golf (all under $55, not sure if the numbers are a ranking or not):

1.  Bethpage (Red)
2.  CommonGround
3.  Coronado
4.  Olympic at Gold Mountain
5.  Pacific Grove
6.  Pinon Hills
7.  Saratoga Spa
8.  Stonebridge
9.  Threetops
10.  Wild Horse

[Kalen Braley]

Sven,

Thanks for the list, that looks to be a good one.  But for the average Joe, even $55 can be expensive for a weekend round of golf.

I'd like to see the $30 and under list.  I've got in a course in mind that'd be tough to beat at that price...Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA at $29 for the peak fee.

[Phil McDade]

Sven,

Thanks for the list, that looks to be a good one.  But for the average Joe, even $55 can be expensive for a weekend round of golf.

I'd like to see the $30 and under list.  I've got in a course in mind that'd be tough to beat at that price...Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA at $29 for the peak fee.

Kalen:

Here's the $25 and under thread from several years ago -- Aiken in SC seemed to be a pretty good candidate, along with the course that started the thread. (Maybe 5 years hence means it fits as a $30 and under thread. See reply #16 on the thread below for my rather strict requirements.)

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31437.0.html

[Kalen Braley]

Sven,

Thanks for the list, that looks to be a good one.  But for the average Joe, even $55 can be expensive for a weekend round of golf.

I'd like to see the $30 and under list.  I've got in a course in mind that'd be tough to beat at that price...Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA at $29 for the peak fee.

Kalen:

Here's the $25 and under thread from several years ago -- Aiken in SC seemed to be a pretty good candidate, along with the course that started the thread. (Maybe 5 years hence means it fits as a $30 and under thread. See reply #16 on the thread below for my rather strict requirements.)

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31437.0.html

Thanks Phil,

I've brought it back to the forefront.

[archie_struthers]

 

Hey guys,no kidding , lets have a big shoot out at Twisted this fall.  It will be lots of fun. Stay tuned.

[Philip Caccamise]

Any love for Hominy Hill, Monmouth County, NJ?

... or Charleston Springs? or Howell Park? Monmouth County is blessed with outstanding municipal golf.  

Ronald is right, everyone on this board could have their own list and they would all be worth a look. As much as we like to lament certain aspects of the world of golf and its courses, there are plenty of great values to be had.

My two cents...

The Trophy Club (Lebanon, IN) - I've said plenty about this course before, but $59 for 36 holes is hard to beat. Tim Liddy made the most out of this site, using the existing landforms to create interest and variety. I'm about 3 hours away and if a year goes by that I don't play TC I'm a little disappointed.

Gibson Bay (Richmond, KY) - Looking at their website, it seems they've jacked up their rates...all the way to $15 weekdays and $24 weekends (with a ridiculous twilight of $10). I haven't played Gibson Bay in about 10 years, so I'd be interested to hear how they are doing these days. When I was in the area, it would occasionally be a bit crowded and slow. However, more often than not it wasn't an issue.

Keller Golf Course (Maplewood, MN) - When I lived in the area, it was typically in really good shape. You get the feel of a classic golden age course with the dedicated clientele of a beloved muni, a great vibe that I hope remains following Richard Mandel's work and the construction of the new clubhouse.  

Gibson Bay is doing OK. The greens are very good, but this summer the rough was basically nonexistent. It burned out very early in this ridiculously hot summer.

I'd offer up Old Silo as an alternative to Gibson for value in Kentucky. Simply awesome for an average rate around $29 on weekdays, basically every hole is different and good, and when they get their stuff straight with the bunkers it will be back up on top of the lists. I'll try to do a photo tour of it one of these days. Graham Marsh's first US design.

I love Twisted Dune, Archie. We used to play there and ACCC in college in the shoulder season when it was too cold in Philadelphia, that 50 miles could mean 10 degrees and enough to play golf!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt Ward responds to various comments:

The purpose of the article was to highlight at 60/40 the quality of a course's design in tandem with the price amount charged (max amounts were
looked at deliberately during high season). That is why a course like Bethpage Black is not listed because the out-of-state rate is now well into the triple digit
amounts.
 
Tim Pitner is quite correct -- I tried to keep the selections to one specific architect for the grouping. Thus, only one Doak and one Engh course. If my
selection grouping was more -- say 25 plus -- then they would have had more -- places like CommonGround and Lakota Canyon, come quickly to mind.
 
One other thing -- I also tried to provide some sort of geographic balance given the wishes of my editor. Top tier states with quality public courses and
affordable rates are places like Indiana and Colorado -- less so for places like California, certain spots in the Northeast and places in the desert southwest which
have much higher rates during peak times.
 
One of the courses I wanted to include but it was just able to squeeze in is The Trophy Club -- just outside of Indy. Top notch Tim Liddy design and it has all the ingredients -- first rate design and very affordable prices. The Hoosier State would have quite a few listed. Colorado is the same way -- save for the courses in the
mountains during peak summer rates.
 
Some have mentioned Gibson Bay and I concur -- it's a quality layout for the money. But, it would not sniff a consideration for the ones I listed. They are all superior in terms of layout.
 
Some have mentioned Pinon Hills and it's a quality Ken Dye design -- but in New Mexico Black Mesa is the top dog in that regard.
 
I did mention World Woods -- for those who think I hate Sunshine State golf (I still do!) -- the status of the facility is well-earned and deserves plenty of plaudits.
 
A few sleepers come to mind -- Stow Acres in Stow, MA -- the North Course which served as the match play portion for a USGA Pub Links several years ago.
 
Others include ...
 
GC at Red Rock (Rapid City area)
Links of ND -- although the first six holes are much weaker than the balance of the rest.
Old Works (Anaconda, MT)
Bayside (NE)
Hawktree (although borderline given it's high cost when weighed against other ND courses)
Rochelle Ranch (turf issues the main concern here) / Rawlins, WY
Desert Canyon (Orondo, WA)
Genoa Lakes / Resort Course (Carson City, NV)
Tallgrass (Shoreham, NY)
Eaglesticks (Zanesville, OH)
 
*Lulu has been mentioned -- although I would need to think about that -- PA public golf is really dog meat when held against its private side -- the worst in the country when the two categories are merged -- save for the likes of NY State.
 
I can add more ...
 
In the final analysis -- the magazines need to spend more time on the places that can do both - quality design and affordable rates. Those are the real
winners -- if you want more people to play then quality layouts with fair pricing should be the main emphasis -- thinking of places like Pebble Beach, Pinehurst #2, Whistling Straits and others of this ilk -- are more fantasty than reality.
 
 
 

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