From a lurker:
Let David C know that if Bethpage Black had the greens of Winged Foot / West the pros -- and everyone else for that matter -- would still be playing the course.
That's exactly my point though, Joe/lurker. I strongly disapprove of a layout which emphasizes the long game over putting to such a strong degree. I'm not calling for mega-ridiculous greens. I would be equally critical of a course that overemphasized putting over tee to green play. Don't misunderstand me - I was NOT calling for the USGA or anyone else to make the greens at Bethpage any harder. I simply find it to be a glaring weakness that the difficulty is so much stacked in the long game rather than the short game. You'd think I'd slaughtered a sacred cow. It's a nice course, but I feel perfectly comfortable saying it is incredibly overhyped because it presents mainly one type of challenge.
The lurker responds:
Dear David:
You "strongly disapprove of a layout which emphasizes the long game over putting to such a strong degree"-- maybe it's because your long game is especially weak and exposes a glaring deficiency. Bunters usually bitch and moan. Instead of admitting the obvious (no disrespect) - they camouflage the issue as the fault of the course. Clever tap dance trick.
The issue is understanding that Tillie created a course where getting to the green is no small feat -- plenty of elevated targets to handle -- most notably the dangerous par-4 15th ! A number of GCAers and others are in love with layouts they can physically handle -- and have greens with wonderful contours where the short game is in fact over-EMPHASIZED (my emphasis added).
David, love the subtle putdown -- BB is more than just a "nice course" -- to use a baseball metaphor -- it's Nolan Ryan throwing serious heat and if you can't handle the fastball it's likely because you don't favor courses that don't fit your game -- your scorecard. No problem -- plenty of people mask their own game shortcomings and say similar things. There are johnny-one-note long hitters who hate massive contours because the putt like Roberto Duran -- the hand of stone! One other thing - be curious to know how many times you've played the course and what tees you played?
I'll say this again -- I do agree with you that finesse is missing at Bethpage Black and the omission of a top shelf short par-4 -- possibly even more than one -- is a must item. I have always said so and I agree 100% with Doak when he says there is not one world class golf course that doesn't have at least one short par-4 of note. The 18th at BB is a dog meat ender. Rees Jones tried to keep the original format and used a variety of "dress me up" elements to sweeten the pot. It failed in my mind. The 18th at BB needs to be THAT short par-4 where so much rides and even more so for the fact that there have been a number of muscle holes to precede it.
Joe et all, I'll disregard some of the comments about my golf game tossed in your commentary above and leave it at that I've played the course maybe a half dozen times. Each time I played from the tips (it takes 6 hrs to play there so I might as well enjoy a longer walk) and I also attended 4 rounds of US Open play there. I've been called many things, but never a bunter. My carry distance with a driver is about 270 and I have a swing speed in the mid-110's. I would not consider myself to be a short-hitter.
I play to around 3 and shot in the high 70's (or perhaps one in the low 80's, I don't recall) on my visits. No doubt it's a monster, but all the difficulty comes from the length which made the course boring and repetitive. In contrast, I thought that a course like Erin Hills (a similarly long course) had some interesting greens and a better mix of short and long holes that made a long course a lot more interesting. I stand behind my statement that it's case and point of how the USGA let equipment get away from it. I don't disagree that Tillinghast did everyone a favor by making the greens flat, but it's a long, boringly repetitive golf course that poses no serious challenges in the short game. It's blast a drive, blast a long iron all the way around. To me, that's not a complete test the way many other US Open venues are.
As an aside it was not a subtle putdown to call it a "nice course" - I also said it probably deserved to be in the top 100. We are splitting hairs at that point, but I do not think it is in a league with, for example, Winged Foot or Oakmont.