Comments on PSA, Golf's Grand Design

[Carl Rogers]

Certainly for the production to fit it in an hour, it had to have a lot of editting, so for me it is a function of what was left out...
1. Golf Carts ... no mention of their omni-presence and the business model necessity in American Golf.  At the 'regular' courses that most of us experience, the cart and the game are inseparable.  No sighting of them while the 'ordinary' people were hitting the ball.  Neither Keiser, Youngscap, Coore Crenshaw, Kidd or any body mentioning that the golf at Bandon or Sandhills was a walking only experience and that was part of returning the game back to its roots.
2. JN mentioning that ANGC was about the only course that had been modified  - lengthened, bent grass greens for faster green speeds, etc.  What has happened at MV? ... continuous high dollar change.  Oakmont hasn't changed?!  Astonishingly inaccurate!!
3. The impact of the governing bodies.  The USGA and the PGA Tour have had no impact on Golf Design??? Huh??  Some mention of the Augusta syndrome and unsustainable upkeep cost.

I liked the show a lot.

[Bill_McBride]

Carl, I believe there are carts at Sand Hills.  Ballyneal is walking only. 

Has Oakmont changed in the last 70 years other than cutting down an entire forest?

[Ronald Montesano]

I think they did WAY more than I expected. I was thrilled to see the airtime that a bunch of our favorites got. Bob Cupp was my biggest surprise. I had heard that Leatherstocking said, in no uncertain terms, that he was NOT TO TOUCH their greens when they had him in to do some work. I couldn't equate that tale with the message that Cupp was offering last night.

[Eric Smith]

Carl,

There were several scenes showing golfers using golf carts at Sand Hills.

[Ronald Montesano]

That was rush hour in Mullen.

[Kyle Henderson]

Has Oakmont changed in the last 70 years other than cutting down an entire forest?

Yup. Bunkers were moved closer together to narrow several fairways. I believe it was lenthened as well, though I don't remember any details.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Is the book notable in any way? Or a picture-laden paperweight?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Belay that, I'm buying it. Signed, Dogged Victim of Golf Books

[Carl Johnson]

Is the book notable in any way? Or a picture-laden paperweight?

I looked on the PBS website earlier today and the book does not appear to be generally available yet.  Am I wrong?

In spite of when I fell asleep a few times (my fault, not the show's), I thought it was very well done, although following the somewhat repetative, easy going format approach that PBS documentaries seem take.

[Adam Lawrence]

It's fairly cheap and cheerful, no colour images, but lots of hole sketches. I haven't read through it yet, but the bits I've skimmed are interesting. It's presented as a conversation between Cupp and Whitten.

[Powell Arms]

It was a well produced and interesting hour. I think it could serve as a great intro to golf course architecture and history for someone with a budding interest.

As has been said above, I would have liked to have seen a bit more of a discussion on the negative effects of technology on classic courses.

[David Kelly]

Bob Cupp was my biggest surprise. I had heard that Leatherstocking said, in no uncertain terms, that he was NOT TO TOUCH their greens when they had him in to do some work. I couldn't equate that tale with the message that Cupp was offering last night.

Have you played many Cupp courses? If so you would understand Leatherstocking's instruction.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is PSA and if it is a tv show on PBS do you think it possible to see it outside USA?

[Ronald Montesano]

Public Service Announcement?

[David Kelly]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is PSA and if it is a tv show on PBS do you think it possible to see it outside USA?

Brett,  I don't know where you can see the whole program from Australia but here are some clips and outtakes from the program.
http://video.pbs.org/program/golfs-grand-design/

[Howard Riefs]

I looked on the PBS website earlier today and the book does not appear to be generally available yet.  Am I wrong?

Available via Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Golfs-Grand-Design-evolution-architecture/dp/1478176385/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1344133300&sr=8-2&keywords=Golfs+grand+design

[Jason Thurman]

A few thoughts.

1. I really enjoyed the program and they chose fantastic courses to profile.

2. I do wish they had talked more about what makes architecture work (strategy, how architects create interest, purpose of hazards, and even things like drainage) but there's only so much you can do in an hour. It's a great intro to the topic.

3. I'd have liked to have heard more about Nicklaus' progression from player to architect. They scratched to surface of it, but I suspect he could find a lot to say about that topic.

4. I think we probably need a full-length documentary dedicated just to Pete Dye.

5. The biggest thing for me was a better appreciation of guys like Fazio and RTJ. They catch a lot of flak on this board, but they do some work well worth studying. I think Fazio would've been the wrong guy to design a course at Bandon, but I also think Doak or Coore & Crenshaw would've been poor choices to design Shadow Creek (and probably would've turned the project down).

It seems like there's a small but vocal minority on this board who believe Fazio, RTJ, and a handful of other architects have never done a single decent golf course and barely understand architecture. The truth is that those guys have done some very good work and deserve study, even if some of their courses were economically difficult. There's room for more than just one style of golf architecture, even if we all have a style we prefer more than others.

[Steve Burrows]

As mentioned by others, there is only so much that one can discuss in an hour.  So, while I wouldn't call it a true "puff" piece, neither was it a very critical inquiry into the subject.   

[David Kelly]

As mentioned by others, there is only so much that one can discuss in an hour.  So, while I wouldn't call it a true "puff" piece, neither was it a very critical inquiry into the subject.   

It is what it set out to be - a good introduction to the topic for a general audience.

[Carl Johnson]

I looked on the PBS website earlier today and the book does not appear to be generally available yet.  Am I wrong?

Available via Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Golfs-Grand-Design-evolution-architecture/dp/1478176385/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1344133300&sr=8-2&keywords=Golfs+grand+design

Thanks very much, Howard.

[Ronald Montesano]

Looks like they self-published the first run, with CreateSpace. Might be the new, hot item to have!

[Tom Yost]

... what was left out... Some mention of the Augusta syndrome and unsustainable upkeep cost.

I believe there was a mention of the presentation at Augusta and how many golfers believed their courses should look the same. I think it was Whitten that commented about how that's fine... if you have the bucks.

I enjoyed the show as well.  The target audience obviously was not "us."   I was happy to see that the topic of the so-called renaissance movement in course design was presented, tracking the evolution from the golden age thru the post-war RTJ period, into the excesses of the 90's and finally introducing the beginnings of a return to the more natural styles, a mention of "minimalism," and the idea of selecting sites most suited for golf as opposed to a component of a real-estate development.

All these ideas are very familiar to us, but if it gets a few more folks thinking about it, it's a good thing.

[Ronald Montesano]

Confirm...the architects had to dance around the reactions of potential/future well-heeled clients. I think that they did a good job of that.

It was nice to have Fazio go on record as saying he is a "wow" architect. I still find many fundamental principles in his greens; those principles are often obscured by the fireworks of bunkeris and water.

[Scott Weersing]

Certainly for the production to fit it in an hour, it had to have a lot of editting, so for me it is a function of what was left out...
1. Golf Carts ... no mention of their omni-presence and the business model necessity in American Golf.  At the 'regular' courses that most of us experience, the cart and the game are inseparable.  No sighting of them while the 'ordinary' people were hitting the ball.  Neither Keiser, Youngscap, Coore Crenshaw, Kidd or any body mentioning that the golf at Bandon or Sandhills was a walking only experience and that was part of returning the game back to its roots.
2. JN mentioning that ANGC was about the only course that had been modified  - lengthened, bent grass greens for faster green speeds, etc.  What has happened at MV? ... continuous high dollar change.  Oakmont hasn't changed?!  Astonishingly inaccurate!!
3. The impact of the governing bodies.  The USGA and the PGA Tour have had no impact on Golf Design??? Huh??  Some mention of the Augusta syndrome and unsustainable upkeep cost.

I liked the show a lot.

I thought it was good history of GCA in America. I liked how it touched on each generation's biggest influencers. I liked how well Coore stated things that we believe here at this site. For example, was golf real estate really better for golf course design?

The documentary is often a viewpoint of the director and he decided not to look at the impact of the golf cart. He could have mentioned it when he talked about how Fazio started to build golf courses on poor land. Or, golf carts could have been mentioned with real estate golf.

I think there was some mention of tour golf with TPC Sawgrass being an influential course. I think the PGA Tour courses then inspired the real estate courses with lots of look and little on playability.

I am not sure how the USGA has influenced golf course design in the last 100 years. If anything, the USGA has said the wall to wall green golf courses are best by taking the US Open to those type of courses. But are new golf course owners, really asking golf course designers to design a US Open golf course? I guess there are owners who want a course to host a championship (Trump, Kohler, Erin Hills) but those are more the exception. I think these type of courses would fitt in the Fazio model rather than our current stage of natural golf (Old Macdonald, Pinehurst No. 2).

[Neil White]

Hi all,

While I can't find a link to the programme in its entirety here is a link to page with a trailer and numerous short videos - I presume that are from programme?

http://video.pbs.org/video/2245830166

Cheers,

Neil.