[Emile Bonfiglio]

Anyone played there and played both course? Curious if you had 1 round to play which course you choose and why?

[Greg Tallman]

Anyone played there and played both course? Curious if you had 1 round to play which course you choose and why?

Emile, I have not been there but have talked with hundreds that have and to a person they prefer the Fazio. Typically say both are quite good but Fazio clearly better.

[Stephen Davis]

Emile,

I have played both several times and I prefer the Fazio hands down. It is more interesting from a visual and design standpoint. I am not saying that the Nicklaus is a bad course, far from it, but I felt like I had played that course before, where as the Fazio seems more unique. Also, the Fazio has my favorite par 3 that I have ever played. The #8 Lava Tube hole is one that will make you say WOW! Play it from the back left tees and you will see what I mean.

[Tom_Doak]

I only played the Fazio course when I was out there, but I did an extensive tour of the Nicklaus course.

The former is prettier, the latter is more difficult [although I thought the Fazio course was tougher than his typical product].  I would guess the players with handicaps below 5 would prefer the Nicklaus course, but even some of them might think it's too severe around the greens.

[Jeff_Brauer]

When were these built?  Before JN had his change of heart and started building easier courses?

[Michael Dugger]

Fazio...easily.

More my cup of tee, rough around the edges, blended nicely into the existing desert landscape.

Lave tube #8 is phenomenal, as is a lot of the other rock outcropping...

I have a hard time distinguishing between the first handful of holes on Nicklaus.

It kicks into gear on the back nine, but Fazio delivers all the way through.

[Joey Chase]

Fazio...easily.

More my cup of tee, rough around the edges, blended nicely into the existing desert landscape.

Lave tube #8 is phenomenal, as is a lot of the other rock outcropping...

I have a hard time distinguishing between the first handful of holes on Nicklaus.

It kicks into gear on the back nine, but Fazio delivers all the way through.

It's funny you say that about the Nicklaus course.  It seems every course of his that I've played have left me with the same feeling.  It is a nice enough course, but it all blends together.  I've played Monte Rei in Portugal several times and cannot even really remember more than a few holes. 

[Tom_Doak]

When were these built?  Before JN had his change of heart and started building easier courses?

Jeff:

The Nicklaus course opened in 2004 ... Jack and Jim Lipe came right from the grand opening to do the press conference for the groundbreaking at Sebonack.

The Fazio course was starting to take shape by then.  My understanding was that Jack was upset that he had tried to build something of a minimalist course for the first 18, because grading in lava rock is very expensive, and the client had just taken whatever Jack had saved them and given it to Fazio to let him move even more rock!

One of the things that makes the Nicklaus course so severe, though, is just the way it was maintained.  The approaches and short grass around the greens were so tight that an average golfer could play ping-pong back and forth across some of the greens.  In fact they were so tight that Jack himself questioned if that was even a good idea.  I don't know if they are still spending that kind of money on the conditioning there ... Bend is not booming like it was then!

[Greg Tallman]

Oops, wrong topic

[Bill Satterfield]

I guess I'm not in the norm on this; but my preference is the Nicklaus course.  I played them both a month or so ago as well as both of them back in 2007 and each time I came away preferring the Nicklaus course.  The first time I played, I preferred the Nicklaus course comfortably more than the Fazio course; this last time around it was much closer for me but I still leaned towards Jack's effort.  Admittedly, I enjoy a demanding course because it increases my enjoyment when I play well and humbles me when I don't.  You can get away with a ton off the tee at Fazio which is nice when you aren't driving the ball well, but the landing zones at the Nicklaus aren't exactly U.S. Open widths - there is a fair amount of forgiveness there.  The more demanding nature of the approach shots at Nicklaus is more rewarding for my taste.  I think the Nicklaus course puts a higher risk/reward value on your shot making when trying to reach the par 5s in two, although the par five 18th at Fazio is the best on the property.  The Fazio course features more intriguing par 3s with the 8th hole being world class.  My eye enjoys what Nicklaus did visually with the trees and rock outcroppings that frame some of the playing corridors in contrast to the wide of Fazio design that utilizes bunkers as the main aesthetic feature.  If you could just pick 9s, the front nine of Fazio teamed with the back nine at Nicklaus would be phenomenal; but if I could only pick one course I give the slight edge to Nicklaus.  

[Pete_Pittock]

Played both about five years ago. Prefer the Fazio course. The greens are more interesting and the ground game can be employed much more than on the Nicklaus course. Of the few Fazio courses I've played his Pronghorn course is tops. The Nicklaus course seemed to be designed right out of his book.

[Stephen Davis]

Played both about five years ago. Prefer the Fazio course. The greens are more interesting and the ground game can be employed much more than on the Nicklaus course. Of the few Fazio courses I've played his Pronghorn course is tops. The Nicklaus course seemed to be designed right out of his book.

I think this is the sentiment of many people. The Nicklaus course is a fine course, to be sure, but I think you hit the nail on the head. The Fazio course is a unique course that is significantly different from the other Fazio courses I have played.

[William_G]

Fazio is easier and more forgiving with less homes built, (more vacant lots) as it was the 2nd course, and the real estate gig here failed later in the decade.

Most holes at Fazio routed north and south for best views for the homes to the east and west

Nicklaus is visually more intimidating but has plenty of width with more challenging greens and surrounds, with more homes around.

Nicklaus is public/Fazio is private.

To me the Fazio is more typical private cart course where all golfers will relax and enjoy, with the 18th hole being similar to holes I've played before

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52141.0.html


hope the current owners make it work!

play either one if you only play one as they are both similar desert terrain, great smelling Juniper bushes and both are a nice walk

[JWL]

TD....I've never been to Pronghorn.

[Jimmy Cavezza]

Fazio...  I was very fortunate to work on this course during construction and got to see it come together.  Both courses are good, but I like the bigger landing areas on the Fazio course.  I like how the bunker sand and edges fit in with the rock outcroppings and Junipers.  The maintenance on both of the courses is top notch.  Definately both worth a visit.

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