[mike_beene]

Bill,DN is south of the turnpike close to Loop 12 and Dallas Baptist U ,Mountain Creek Lake,etc in Oak Cliff.I like number 5 because it is first a fun downhill shot with for me a 4 or 5 iron( it is more downhill than the pictures) and if you get on the wrong side it has bogey written all over it.There should be an advantage for ball striking. I guess I like the visual because I feel like I am on 8 at the Plantation.The hole is better when compared to the other par 3 holes at DN which are underwhelming compared to the par 4s

[Mark Saltzman]

Mike, thanks.  I agree that the par-3s are generally not as good as the par-4s and par-5s (which I think are a particularly good set), though I think 13 is quite a good hole.

[mike_beene]

When we get to 13 and have some pictures( So what I am describing makes some sense) look at the angle which it seems like gets odd the more left the tees go.From the right it is a nice fall away.Not sure I am describing this very well.

[mike_beene]

I have posted this before but it is too good .Behind the 5th green is the halfway house which has  its own address and through which an entrance can be built to avoid the soccer fields.They have received some letters from prisoners nearing parole wanting to get into the halfway house.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 7: Par 4, 331 Yards

After only a single par-4 in the first 5 holes, the front-nine concludes with 4 in a row and the 7th is the best opportunity to make birdie.  A simple and well-conceived short par-4 that may be driveable for some.  From the tee the golfer will want to challenge the fairway bunker on the right to leave a preferred line into the green.  A not-so-gently leftward tilted fairway makes keeping the ball on the right side of the fairway a difficult task.






From every position in the fairway the majority of the green is blind, blocked-out by a large scaled green side bunker, but from the right side of the fairway the right portion of the green can be seen and the left portion more easily accessed.






An extremely difficult and undulating green with a back-left portion that tilts away from the tee and a high back-right portion that must be delicately approached as long=dead.
 





Hole 8: Par 4, 437 Yards

The 8th fairway is mostly blind from the tee and the LZ is completely blind.  Bold tee shots will play near the rock wall on the right.






A green that begs for a running approach.  The green slopes from right-to-left allowing clever golfers to access the back portion of the green without challenging the greenside bunkers.  Approaches that bailout to the right will leave a difficult uphill recovery to a green sloping away.








Hole 9: Par 4, 407 Yards

Lots of good stuff going on here.  Play near the left-side fairway bunkers for the shortest approach.  Play near the right-side fairway bunker for the preferred angle.  Above all, hit the fairway as this is one difficult to hit green if out of position!






The approach from the centre of the fairway has an obscured view of the green.

[George Pazin]

Why not make the 5th a simple drop shot hole right up against the green?  I get Mark's point.  This hole looks to have been "built" a lot of times while avoiding a neat natural feature (ravine) that is only in play for a really bad shot.  Can't see the chipping issue from photos.  Or move the tee down and to the right and play with the ravine on the left?

The last thing the golf world needs is another drop shot par 3.

Signed -

George P
Founding member, Drop Shot Haters Club

 

-----

Judging solely from the pics thus far, this looks like a course I would really really enjoy.

[George Pazin]

I hope you're planning on continuing the tour after the PGA. Some of us are still interested in the back 9.

[Mark Saltzman]

George, 3 more coming tomorrow (hopefully).

[Randy Thompson]

Does anyone know what the tall native grass mixture is made up of??? Blue grama´s and some kind of oats???

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 5, 578 Yards

A pretty and downhill hole that will be considered overbunkered by some. The bunker on the left is the only bunker that impacts strategy, and which must be challenged for an ideal line, while the bunkers along the right side of the fairway contain shots that are pushed to the right.






A series of bunkers run diagonally across the fairway.  These bunkers must be carried to leave a short (under 120 yards) approach into the green.  There is much more room than there appears to the right.






Once over the bunkers the golfer is confronted with an open green front.  While the green appears tiny from the fairway, it's width and depth become apparent as the golfer reaches the green's edge.






With a left-side 'wing' and a back-portion of the green that runs away from the tee there is much more to this green than can be seen from the fairway.

[mike_beene]

10 be played from the back of the tee going the other way on up the hill. I have always thought the terrain was to severe for crowds and a major, but would it be any more of a logistical challenge than The Ocean Course( not that you would ever play a tournament here in August)

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 11: Par 4, 367 Yards

The view from the back tees (430 yards) shows an unbelievably long carry, close to 260 yards, that I'm told plays into the wind about 1/3 of the time.  From the I tees the carry is a non-issue and instead focus must be placed on avoiding the bunkers that dot the landing area.  Many will choose to hit less than driver to lay-up to the left-side bunker at 250 yards.






Another approach where the golfer gets a view of only a small portion of a large green.




Is this the most contoured green Fazio has ever designed?  Pretty darned cool looking green with pin locations that range from very easy to ball busting.




Hole 12: Par 4, 408 Yards

The 12th tee was originally above and to the left of the 11th green, but it has since been moved below and to the right of the 11th green.

[George Pazin]

Thanks, Mark, looking forward to the rest.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 13: Par 3, 141 Yards

Nowhere to miss here.  I missed down by the hazard; my playing partners were two feet off the green to the left.  Green tilts so hard from the left that both of them chipped it over the green into the rough.  They made 4 and 5.  I made 3 pitching into the slope of the green.  I'm not sure if this hole is clever or terrible.  Thoughts?








Hole 14: Par 4, 344 Yards

The most oft criticized hole at DN.  As uphill as it looks in the picture, it is difficult to understand just how uphill it really is.  Nevertheless, the hole is simply and strategically bunkered and has one of the most contoured greens on the course.  There are a couple tiny shelves (middle-left and back-right) that I was told are rarely pinned but would be great pins in a tournament.
















Hole 15: Par 4, 431 Yards

An awkward tee shot with a hidden hazard on the left that protects the ideal line.  Despite the length of the hole, I think many golfers will choose to hit less than driver here.






Approaching from the left allows the golfer a preferred line and an opportunity to run the ball onto the angled green

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 16: Par 4, 471 Yards -- The most awkward tee shot on the golf course as many (not just longer hitters) can reach the bunkers through the fairway and will be forced to cut-off a piece of the dogleg.




Approach from the left.  Many will approach from here as it is difficult to commit to play it far enough right.  Clearly the ideal line is from the right.






Hole 17: Par 3, 225 Yards -- I've noticed that on some of his recent work, Tom Fazio likes to design a par-3 that plays through blasted rock.  However, unlike the 7th at Gozzer Ranch (a similar hole), the 17th green at DN does not have the same very cool 'encircled in rock' feeling.








Hole 18: Par 5, 523 Yards -- Lots of rightward tilt on this fairway, as the land is laid-out on the same terrain as the 1st hole.  Bunkers surround the DZ; longer hitters may try to take it over the bunker on the right. 




A second shot from the left side of the fairway leaves an awkward lay up to land that tilts away toward a blind hazard.




From the right side of the fairway the view of the lay-up area and the green is ideal.




Approach to 18:




18 Green.  Nasty false-front.

[Derek Dirksen]

Thanks for the great photo tour.  I love the look of the course.

[Sam Morrow]

The story about 17 is something along the lines of cost getting out of hand so they stopped blowing up rocks where they are now. I like the hole and think the rocks as is look kind of cool. I don't care for 16 and it might be my least favorite hole on the course. Mark you did miss pictures of the greatest short game area I've ever seen.

[Sean_A]

Is it me, or has modern gca shot its wad?  With very few exceptions, one being the the polarizing Tobacco Road, I don't see many tours of modern courses which make me think the new guys have moved architecture forward from the likes of Colt, Dr Mac etc.  This is not a dig at Dallas National or anybody/anything.  Just a heavy sigh from a guy looking for courses which make a statement.  Have we seen what the end of innovative architecture which isn't merely engineering feats? 

As always Mark, thank you.  I still enjoyed the tour even if I am left totally uninspired. 

Ciao

[George Pazin]

Is it me, or has modern gca shot its wad?  With very few exceptions, one being the the polarizing Tobacco Road, I don't see many tours of modern courses which make me think the new guys have moved architecture forward from the likes of Colt, Dr Mac etc.  This is not a dig at Dallas National or anybody/anything.  Just a heavy sigh from a guy looking for courses which make a statement.  Have we seen what the end of innovative architecture which isn't merely engineering feats? 

As always Mark, thank you.  I still enjoyed the tour even if I am left totally uninspired. 

Ciao

Sean, I'm a little surprised you felt that way about this tour. I think the course looks somewhat understated, and could easily see how it would grow on me and I would end up loving it; I'm not saying that would happen, can't until I've played it, just that I think it could.

In contrast, it always seems to me that it's the over-the-top courses that get the big press and the accolades; this didn't seem like that to me, but I'll be the first to admit I'm not as good an analyst as many on here.

[Sean_A]

George

The course looks fine.  But this is a high profile club/course in Texas which by accounts had a healthy budget and a top notch modern archie.  I am not seeing anything which makes me think this course has added to the pantheon of architecture and its that way for a lot of well thought of moderns.  I am curious if folks think this is it - have we seen what there is to see?  Are there no more bridges to cross in architecture (not including engineering/agronomy stuff - just hole designs).  I long suspected we are at the end of the road, but more than one archie on this board insisted they would give up the business if that were the case.

Ciao

[Trey Kemp]

Sam,

I totally agree on the short game area, its my favorite.  I will try to dig up some pictures to post.

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