Dallas National GC (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

Routing Mural




Clubhouse






Club Info including some of the many awards the golf course has received...

http://www.dallasnationalgolfclub.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=343307&ssid=244797&vnf=1


All Yardages and pictures from the I tees


Hole 1: Par 4, 346 Yards

I am sure some will find fault here because this is a Fazio design, but I think the 1st at DN is an exceptional opener.  While there is plenty of room to miss and playing safe should result in a fairly routine 4, there are opportunities for 3 and 5.  

The design is simple and strategic.  Play near the fairway bunkering on the fairway that tilts rightward to leave the clearest view of the green.






The approach from the right side of the fairway (about 120 out) is an intimidating one. Playing to the centre of the green is fairly simple, but challenging the pin pictured from this angle and with the ball below one's feet is a difficult task.






Shots that are pulled (bailed-out) will be repelled by some clever ground movement:




As is the case with most of the greens at DN, large and sweeping movements in the green create the interest




A look back from long-right





Hole 2: Par 5, 521 Yards

The second hole is another very good one.  Golfers playing this as a 3-shot hole will want to challenge the bunker guarding the inside of the fairway, though there is plenty of room to bail-out left.  Longer hitters must decide whether or not to challenge the bunkers through the fairway, which guard the ideal line into the green.




Playing the 2nd shot from the extreme right side of the fairway allows the golfer to take advantage of the significant width Fazio provides out to the left (from where the golfer has the simplest pitch into the green)




Failing to follow my caddie's advice, I followed the Line of Instinct and played my second shot toward the pin.  From this line the approach is a very difficult one.




Green from back-left





Hole 3: Par 3, 170 Yards

The weakest of the opening trio of holes, though nothing offensive here.  Playing subtly uphill I suspect that many golfers find themselves a little short here, making the small back portion of the green an even more difficult-to-find target

Back Tee View




Middle Tee View




Green from Left

[George Pazin]

Thanks for sharing. I like what I've seen so far.

A question for the other archies: what do you look for in pics?

[JMEvensky]

A question for the other archies: what do you look for in pics?

Thank you George--I've always wanted to ask this question.

[Cliff Walston]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  As a long time Houstonian, I am always jealous of the elevation change Dallas has.  Looking forward to the rest of the pics.

Cliff

[Sean Leary]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  As a long time Houstonian, I am always jealous of the elevation change Dallas has.  Looking forward to the rest of the pics.

Cliff

Was just thinking that I can't believe this is Texas....

[Sam Morrow]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  As a long time Houstonian, I am always jealous of the elevation change Dallas has.  Looking forward to the rest of the pics.

Cliff

Was just thinking that I can't believe this is Texas....

Really? We have mountains, it's a big state.

[mike_beene]

I also think the pictures do a good job of showing why DN is not the easiest walk in the world.It sits in the White Rock Escarpment(sp) which is the narrow elevation change running roughly down interstate 35.This is truly the line between the west and the south and between ranching in the dry areas to the west and farming in the areas east where the rainfall changes due to the escarpment with the Gulf fitting in also.

[Sam Morrow]

I also think the pictures do a good job of showing why DN is not the easiest walk in the world.It sits in the White Rock Escarpment(sp) which is the narrow elevation change running roughly down interstate 35.This is truly the line between the west and the south and between ranching in the dry areas to the west and farming in the areas east where the rainfall changes due to the escarpment with the Gulf fitting in also.

People from your side of town look down on the people on the other side.

[Greg Chambers]

Excellent photographs, Mark.  The course looks to be in really nice condition, very lush it seems from the pics.  Did it play firm?  It looks like it would be great fun if the ball was rolling around out there.

[Sam Morrow]

Excellent photographs, Mark.  The course looks to be in really nice condition, very lush it seems from the pics.  Did it play firm?  It looks like it would be great fun if the ball was rolling around out there.

Every time I've played it's been fairly firm. Brannon and his staff do great work. One of the reasons I prefer it to Whispering Pines is that WP always seems to be in funky condition when I play.

[Greg Chambers]

Thanks, Sam.  It certainly looks as though the staff there have things dialed in.

[Sam Morrow]

Thanks, Sam.  It certainly looks as though the staff there have things dialed in.

It's a cool place with a very comfortable and inviting vibe.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 5, 519 Yards

Another good golf hole.  Bunker on the right is simple and strategic (and, appropriately, one of the deepest on the course).  Bunkers on the left are containment and could go.








Though it may not look so in this picture, that run-off to the right side of the green is very deep and very intimidating and will have many golfers pulling their approaches.  But, the green tilts severely from back-left to front-right meaning any mess long-left (ie a pull) will leave a very difficult two-putt / recovery.






Hole 5: Par 3, 207 Yards

There's a sign on the tee that says "you've been Fazio'd". OK, maybe not, but this hole is the type that attracts criticism.  More pretty than interesting and altogether avoiding the diagonal ravine that runs across this hole.










Hole 6: Par 4, 436 Yards

A blind tee shot over a rise at the 6th, a hole that feels like several at Fazio's 'minimalist' Karsten Creek in Oklahoma.  The land first tilts right, then heaves left and near the green again cants rightward.   The shape of the land movement gives little in the of visual cues from the tee.




Playing to the inside of the dogleg one is left with this seemingly difficult angle of approach, but that bunker is 30+ yards short of the green and is a terrible example of forced perspective architecture.








Built up some but tilting with the lay of the land the 6th green is a very difficult one where bailouts left leave a very tricky, downhill recovery.

[George Pazin]

Hole 5: Par 3, 207 Yards

There's a sign on the tee that says "you've been Fazio'd". OK, maybe not, but this hole is the type that attracts criticism.  More pretty than interesting and altogether avoiding the diagonal ravine that runs across this hole.

I don't understand your comment. What is not to like about this? Angled green, looks like it has some interesting contours, nice deeeeeeeep bunkers - how could it not be interesting?

I'd still like to know if the architects out there look for specific things in photos, any input would be welcome.

[Jeff_Brauer]

George,

I can tell you what the likes of Lee Trevino and Notah Begay don't like about the fifth.  You can barely see the ridge near the caddies feet.  If you bail right and play safe, that subtle slope is enough to take chip shots from there right off the green.  So it raises the architectural question of whether you should be penalized another stroke for playing safe, and/or whether that type of challenge is even suitable for courses catering to the average members.

I have seen Faz use this later (as opposed to across the green) subtle tier a few times.  I have seen Mac use it at the third at the UM course.  I have heard Doak write about its virtue, but nothing compared to hearing Lee Trevino rant about it when we caught up with him there one day!  Lee and Notah, who is also quite adept at the short game each hit a few shots from just outside the right fringe and couldn't hold it near the pin, and in some cases, on the green.  If they can't, who can?

Just another perspective, nothing more.

BTW, the hole is also notorious for having been rebuilt in construction to the tune of a reported million dollars to "get it right."

[George Pazin]

George,

I can tell you what the likes of Lee Trevino and Notah Begay don't like about the fifth.  You can barely see the ridge near the caddies feet.  If you bail right and play safe, that subtle slope is enough to take chip shots from there right off the green.  So it raises the architectural question of whether you should be penalized another stroke for playing safe, and/or whether that type of challenge is even suitable for courses catering to the average members.

I have seen Faz use this later (as opposed to across the green) subtle tier a few times.  I have seen Mac use it at the third at the UM course.  I have heard Doak write about its virtue, but nothing compared to hearing Lee Trevino rant about it when we caught up with him there one day!  Lee and Notah, who is also quite adept at the short game each hit a few shots from just outside the right fringe and couldn't hold it near the pin, and in some cases, on the green.  If they can't, who can?

Just another perspective, nothing more.

BTW, the hole is also notorious for having been rebuilt in construction to the tune of a reported million dollars to "get it right."

Wow, that criticism makes no sense to me - I hope you laid into Lee and Notah! Just kidding, I wouldn't say anything to them, but it sounds like a feature that would really ramp up interest in the hole, particularly among a membership that plays it repeatedly.

[Jeff_Brauer]

George,

Well, its the old "I should be able to get it close from anywhere" argument from the world's near best or former best.....Lee (knowing he was talking to a golf architect) was very animated that in general, DN (and most modern courses) are just too tough for average guys, based on what he sees in pro ams, etc.  Also talked of building easier stuff himself.  I know he is working with Jerry Lemons on some stuff, and I think Jerry has posted here, so maybe that can be a separate discussion elsewhere as not to thread jack.

I will say its interesting to watch tour pros hit repeated shots that go nowhere near the hole!

[JMEvensky]

BTW, the hole is also notorious for having been rebuilt in construction to the tune of a reported million dollars to "get it right."

I'm genuinely curious how a single golf hole could cost $1MM to build.

Care to speculate on some of the line items?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff,

Everyone was curious!  I recall the press event and they were quite proud of that new hole, and how it came to be.  I guess that showed they spared no expense to get it right, but as a gca, I would have found it embarrassing.

The place is solid rock.  I can only guess when they moved it or whatever, that it cost that much to blast.

 I know they also moved the 17th, which sat on a pipe line that was unknown to them at the start.  That one also blasted through rock, and its possible that this isn't the par 3 they were talking about, although that is the one I recall pictured in the accompanying article several years back.  In that case, they might have counted the associated relocation of 18 in that Mil cost.

They also relocated holes 11-12 once, and the scars from clearing were visible for several years.

I have said many times I actually prefer Vaquero.  It always seemed to me that they held back in the design, making it understated to let nature show through. Also going for a traditional look.  And, while that makes loads of sense, maybe I am just dissapointed not to see Faz do what he does better than anyone - shape modest land everywhere to make each hole present well.

[mike_beene]

Jeff,I mean this as a compliment but DN reminds me much more of your Cowboys course than Vaquero.The terrain is very similar on the elevation holes and the courses just feel the same to me.

[John Shimp]

Why not make the 5th a simple drop shot hole right up against the green?  I get Mark's point.  This hole looks to have been "built" a lot of times while avoiding a neat natural feature (ravine) that is only in play for a really bad shot.  Can't see the chipping issue from photos.  Or move the tee down and to the right and play with the ravine on the left?

[Josh Tarble]

#6 looks like a really good hole.  Be interested in more detail of how it actually plays.

[mike_beene]

I guess I should hold my thought that 5 is my favorite hole on the course.

[Mark Saltzman]

I guess I should hold my thought that 5 is my favorite hole on the course.

Please don't. I learn the most from opinions that conflict with mine. Why do you like it?

[Bill_McBride]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  As a long time Houstonian, I am always jealous of the elevation change Dallas has.  Looking forward to the rest of the pics.

Cliff

Was just thinking that I can't believe this is Texas....

Really? We have mountains, it's a big state.

I don't know.  When I lived in Dallas I thought the highest mountain was one of the big freeway interchanges. 

Where is Dallas National located?