[David Davis]

I'm curious as to how many of you have a home course that constantly beats you up. Over the last year I've watch my hcp go from 4.8 up to 8.1. I've played a lot of rounds on it this summer and while I'm playing by far the best I've ever played the course just has seemed to have become so darn difficult. Anyone else have that situation? Out of experience do you think it's good for your game overall in the long run or is it bad for your game due to how it affects your confidence?

Today I hosted a senior tour player from Wisconsin and two Pros from The Netherlands. The senior tour player is a +2 and the other two guys are scratch. Windforce 5 (our average wind) and the best score was 86. I shot 87 gross so was right in the mix which is fine. Didn't play to my 8.1 hcp however. Now I'm 8.2. Still a little frustrating.

I suppose we could start playing the womens tees...

[Kalen Braley]

Don't complain....

..it only means your handicap is going to travel very very well.

P.S.  If Idaho Club was my home course, I'd easily be a 28 right now instead of a 15....it really is that difficult.

[Michael George]

My home course does not beat you up.  If it did, I would not belong.  I love playing great tests, but not on a daily basis. 

For instance, I love Oakmont, but I am not sure that I would enjoy playing it every day.  Every once in a while, I want to believe that I can still play.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

Yes. Par is 70. It's well under 6500 yds but the rating is 71.2 and slope is 141.

For years my low was a 76 but I shot a 75 this summer. My low elsewhere is a 72 and that was in a tournament, no less. Enjoy the shots you'll be getting when you play away!

[Tommy Williamsen]

Does it beat you up because it doesn't fit your game? Why wouldn't the higher course rating and slope make up for your higher scores?

[John Shimp]

Course rating and slope dont adequately address the differeces in difficuty between an oakmont or ocean course, etc and any other long, "campionship" course.  The stats might indicate a couple or three shots delta at most but that wont reflect the real differences.

  I think those stats do even worse within a course from different sets of tees.  My home course shows a mere 2+ delta from back to middle tees but for an abve avg player lopping off 600 yds results in wedge after wedge to tough greens that are well bunkered.  My score falls by about 8 shots on average.

[Scott Warren]

David,

How accustomed were you to playing in high wind when you joined your club (Noordwiskje, right?)? Have you changed your style of play to better handle the wind?

I felt almost as though I had to learn to play golf again when I joined R. Cinque Ports in 2009. It took a few months of practice and speaking with the club's better players about how they did it, but it really did make me a better golfer.

The same, to a slightly lesser extent, applied to playing on genuinely fast and firm fescue surfaces.

A 4 on a parkland may very well not be a 4 on a links, and vice versa.

[Ken Moum]

Not mine.

I can't tell you how many times I have said, while playing a tough course, "If I had to play this course every day, I'd quit the game."

I might be exaggerating, but not much.

That said, it takes a certain kind of hard to get me thinking that way.  Tight, tree-lined fairways will usually do it. 

But I think I could handle a lot of Prairie Dunes.  I know I could handle a lot of Wild Horse.  And if it wasn't NLE, I think I would be happy playing Cottonwood Hills every day.

K

[Wade Whitehead]

My home course is a difficult one on a very windy site.  Both course and slope ratings are very high.

Does it beat me up?  Yep.

Is it a blast to play every time?  Absolutely.

It's all about a fairly uncooked version of the game, played both through the air and on the ground, and presents as fine a match play venue as I've ever seen.  To me it's the perfect place to learn and enjoy the game and to spend time with my family and friends.

Easy is fun at first but boring after a while.

WW

[mike_beene]

I find that a course beats me up when I am not playing well. If I am playing well it doesn't matter how hard the course is.The new ball is so much easier to play.When I am playing bad I have no clue and I don't even know the other me who sometimes has no trouble hitting it long and straight.It has nothing to do with the course.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

I think a lot of it has to do with your personality.  Do you take getting beaten up a little bit as a affront to your abilities and self-worth or as a challenge to be overcome?

If you have every played with me you may have heard me recount that when I first joined Musgrove Mill (arguably a very challenging test) I was about a 16-18 Hcp.  I always say that for the first years I swear my golf ball budget was almost as high as my monthly dues (OK maybe that is a slight exxaguration) but I credit the current level of my game (however feeble it still might be by some peoples standards) to the fact that playing out there taught me to hit all the shots.  Also coming from a steady diet there you aren't really afraid of most other courses.

I guess I am just sick and twisted enough that getting beaten down early on pushed me to get better.  I too told people back then "That it was almost too much on a daily basis", but low and behold before long I had gotten better and it wasn't that bad anymore.

And as Kalen said above your handicap will travel very well which is another nice benefit.  

[Tom_Doak]

David:

I guess it depends on your definition of getting "beaten up".  Crystal Downs is a very difficult course on which to post a score [par 70, rating 73.9, slope 140], and the native roughs can be very penal -- thankfully, not as much this year.  If you would just look at it as raw scores, you would say the course can punch with the best of them. 

But, it's not a slog at all.  There are plenty of opportunities to make a birdie if you can hit a couple of good shots, and the golf holes are so interesting that it's easy to take them one at a time and not worry about the double bogey on the previous hole.  That is why I think it's so important for courses to have a good variety of holes -- including a few short par-4's that are really exciting, and a couple of long par-4's with difficult greens that even the best players must work hard at.

[Mark Pearce]

MIne does.  I regularly struggle to break 90 there, whereas at Elie I'm disappointed not to break 80.  Northumberland is reasonably long (6800), on the narrow side, with really horrid rough during the summer and most holes dogleg left to right, while I draw the ball.  It's also on a windy site and the last four holes play straight back into the prevailing wind.  I'm looking forward to a fortnight in Elie and to shifting my handicap in the right direction again!

[David Davis]

@Colin, complaining? No complaints here...

Although it does make me feel a little better when players come and visit who I really think are excellent players who shoot rounds in the 60's frequently, even low 60's and I get to watch them get taken apart. Don't get me wrong I feel for them.

@Scott, I learned to play in The Netherlands so was a bit accumstomed to the wind and I'd played about 100 links courses in UK/Ireland before I became a member. That certainly doesn't make me an expert. Links golf is by far my favorite and I love to utilize the ground game, I'm not a great ball striker (great being relative to my hcp of course) however it's improving, I do have a great Irish golf coach, only he's working with extremely limited talent in me. I'd say I've developed an average mastery of links type shots, knock down shots and hacking the ball out of knee deep rough from what most people see as unplayable lies. One interesting personal stat is that my score doesn't fluctuate in the wind and a couple of my best rounds at Noordwijkse have been in windforce 8+. I think it may make me focus more.

@Turboe, I've come to accept that I'm a full on masochist when it comes to golf and I don't shy away from conditions that most people find approriate for hot cocoa and a warm fire. Although I draw the line for the most part at 2 degrees C and not because I don't want to, just because my back, body and joints are just too stiff in this weather. If it's dry cold, no problem, but we don't get that here.

Does your performance on a golf course or the challenges you face have an impact on your self worth. Personally I'd say yes, in a positive way and more so than any other sport. Golf serves you up unpredictable and uncontrollable circumstances and challenges in nearly every single round, teaches you to accept what your life throws at you, stay in the present and move on. Accept and move on. It highlights an important personal aspect in life that you can't control the outcome, you can only control your effort and positive outlook at any given moment.

So yes the course is tough, it's a blast to play every time for sure (however, less fun on those days when you are really off and the wind is up hard and you can't manage to find the fairway.

@Tom, thanks, I don't disagree and I'm not sure I can give you a non-sarcastic definition of being beaten up but yesterday when I posted this I just finished playing a 4 ball of ( + ) hcpers and golf pros, missing a lot of fairways with the group although not by much and having to search at least 10 minutes per hole for balls in a 5.5 hour round.  The slowest round of my life, making it a struggle to concentrate any further and losing the match on the last hole. This while feeling I'm responsible to keep the group moving due to the back up behind and groups not wanting to play through. How's that? It's nothing really, but few will agree that a 4 ball that lasts longer than 4 to 4.5 hours is just too long no matter where you are. Right?

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott you never asked me how to play Deal.............

[jeffwarne]

.
.

 yesterday when I posted this I just finished playing a 4 ball of ( + ) hcpers and golf pros, missing a lot of fairways with the group although not by much and having to search at least 10 minutes per hole for balls in a 5.5 hour round.  The slowest round of my life, making it a struggle to concentrate any further and losing the match on the last hole. This while feeling I'm responsible to keep the group moving due to the back up behind and groups not wanting to play through. How's that? It's nothing really, but few will agree that a 4 ball that lasts longer than 4 to 4.5 hours is just too long no matter where you are. Right?

I see no fun in such an event.
and for too many people it has become the norm.....

[Bill Seitz]

I guess it depends on your definition of getting "beaten up".  Crystal Downs is a very difficult course on which to post a score [par 70, rating 73.9, slope 140], and the native roughs can be very penal -- thankfully, not as much this year.  If you would just look at it as raw scores, you would say the course can punch with the best of them. 

But, it's not a slog at all.  There are plenty of opportunities to make a birdie if you can hit a couple of good shots, and the golf holes are so interesting that it's easy to take them one at a time and not worry about the double bogey on the previous hole.  That is why I think it's so important for courses to have a good variety of holes -- including a few short par-4's that are really exciting, and a couple of long par-4's with difficult greens that even the best players must work hard at.

This more or less describes my home course as well (Kingsley).  Very playable, almost easy, if you're hitting the ball well and in the right spots.  Very penal if you don't.  If you're just missing it a bit, you can put up some big numbers, but if you keep it in play, you can really score.  There's a few holes that require a great deal of precision, but those typically call for shots played with short irons, and with the exception of one hole (preceded by the easiest par 5 on the course), the margin for error tends to increase as the irons get longer.  If I screw up on one of the short holes,  fee like I earned my fate.  You can make a big number on the second hole early in the round, but still feel confident that there are birdies out there at four, six, seven, and eight to get those shots back (and five if the pin is in the right spot).

I'd contrast that with, for example, Cog Hill #4 (which I've played a lot over the last ten years).  At Dubs I can have a very good day driving the ball and the course is still very difficult, and rarely lets up.  It's not uncommon for me to shoot six or seven (or more) shots above my handicap without losing a ball all day.  I like playing there a few times per year, but I wouldn't want to play it every day. 

[Jud_T]

Come on Bill, it's a pushover. Even I birdied 2 and 9 the other day...  Seriously, a very good topic that has broader implications.  Probably one of the main reasons I dropped my old club and joined my current one.  Also the reason I have little interest in any more bedpost notching on highly rated brutal championship layouts and am rather set on seeking out more off-the-run interesting fun layouts.  If your home club beats you over the head every time out either 1) you're playing the wrong set of tees, 2) you're a rank beginner who needs more time on the lesson tee than the first tee or 3) it simply isn't that good of a course... Goes back to that old GCA bromide that it's relatively easy to build a course to challenge the best players, but not quite so easy to build one that's fun and interesting for all...  

[Mark Pearce]

Jud,

Or (4) that the course set up is inappropriate for the design.  Narrow fairways and thick rough on courses designed to have wide fairways is likely to make a course a brute.

[Sean_A]

I don't need a course to beat me up, I have all the necessary shots to do that to myself.  My course provides plenty of difficulty on easy days and there is no question that on some days it is brutal.  Somehow, thats not so bad when you are not on holiday - tee hee.

Ciao

[Jud_T]

Jud,

Or (4) that the course set up is inappropriate for the design.  Narrow fairways and thick rough on courses designed to have wide fairways is likely to make a course a brute.

good point.  A chainsaw and a lawnmower could probably do more to improve golf in this country than anything I can think of.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()