CC of Troy (Travis)~Holes 1-18 photos posted~Commentary thru hole 14

[Dan Byrnes]

This is the only course I haven't played in my area, something I will be sure to rectify.  Actually took lessons there a few times but never played.  They are in our club swim team league and my wife always raves about how well they host and how cool the old clubhouse and such is.

Dan

[Ronald Montesano]

Bruce Hepner sent me the following quotes on the work he has overseen at CCTroy. He gave permission to share it with the lads & lasses of GCA. I was not certain of the extent of Bruce's work with the greens, but now it seems that he has done a fair bit with their restoration:

Amongst the din,  I thought I'd straighten out my involvement at CC of Troy.  I've been the Consulting Architect since 1998, originally representing Reniassance Golf and now Hepner Golf Design. Chris Strong was hired a year or two later. I knew Chris when he was the 2nd assistant at Ekwanok and helped him get the jobs at Mid Ocean Club and then CC of Troy. The restoration work really kicked into gear once Chris came on board. He's done a great job and it has been great fun working with him and his crew.

Like all my typical restoration work, we started with the mowing lines. We first expanded the putting surfaces out to the edges of the original green plateaux.  They had rounded off and lost strategic pin positions. It took a few years to get expansions to putting surface quality and Chris has done a great job keeping them up to speed.   This was done by scalping down the turf followed by repeated topdressings and over-seeding. I guess JPBlain doesn't consider this restoration, so call it what you may. The important thing is that we recaptured the putting surfaces back to their original sizes (without rebuilding them) and they are obviously a spectacular set of Walter Travis surfaces.

We then concentrated on getting the fairway edges back out to the original strategic widths while bringing the fairway bunkers back into play. This was also done by scalping and over-seeding. The expanded approaches and short grass areas around the green-sites were from a little artist liberty on my part.  I had just gotten back from a play/study trip to the Melbourne Sand Belt and I thought the concept would work well around these great green complexes. I think they work well with the existing  roll offs and add a great element to the game.

We've also taken many trees off the property opening up views and allowing the design to breath. Chris keeps on top of the forest and has a free swing at any trees that he feels conflict with proper agronomy and or the design.

Most of the bunkers we added were inspired from Travis's original plan. That work was done over the last 10 years with me in the excavator and Chris and his staff doing the heavy lifting. We also added a few tees to keep the course current from the tips and the forward score card.

Overall I think we've done a pretty good job on a very small budget. All the work was done in-house and Chris Strong, his staff, and the encouraging membership should take full credit for the restoration work. It's a great golf course and one of my favorites hidden gems.

[Ronald Montesano]

This post includes holes #10 through #12.


#10 Tee Shot


#10 looking up hill from fairway


#10 green from front-right fringe


#10 green from 11th tee (behind #10 green)


#11 tee shot, over gunga to sunken fairway landing area (much wider than appears from tee)


#11 tee shot, farther up


#11 fairway shot, from about 235 yards out~it's a par five


#11 fairway shot, closer, from about 160 yards out~still a par five


#11 green from #6 fairway, from left side of green


#11 green from #6 fairway, from left side of green, closer


#12 tee shot from left/upper tee~all of 255 yards


#12 tee shot from right/lower tee decks~a wee dram of 225 yards


#12 tee shot, right tee decks, closer


#12 green from right side, the cistern or bucket or trough or whatever you want to call it~avoid it


#12 green from rear, vantage point is #5 fairway

[Ronald Montesano]

Here you have holes 13 through 15...the unfortunate end is nigh...

#13 tee shot


#13 tee shot, farther up fairway


#13, left side of fairway, peering over bunkers on inside of dogleg


#13, same shot, closer to bunkers


#13, front of green


#13, back fringe of green


#13, higher up by #14 tee


#14, tee shot from left (non-blind) tee


#14, right side of fairway, looking at green


#14, same shot, farther up fairway toward green


#15, blind tee shot, uphill to green


#15, same shot, closer to green



#15, back of green, looking toward tee

[Ronald Montesano]

Final three-hole stretch...Holes 16-18

#16 tee shot


#16 tee shot, farther up fairway


#16, landing area forward


#16, same shot, a bit closer to bunkers


#16, bunkers forward


#17, from tee


#17, from tee, farther up


#17, from tee, even farther up


#17, from right side of fairway, over bunkers


#17, from left side of fairway, over bunker, 80 yards from green


#18, from upper tee


#18, from tee, deeper into fairway



#18 from left side of fairway, over bunker



#18, left side of green, remarkable chipping area


#18, from back right of green, looking toward fairway



#18, from back left of green, looking toward fairway

[GBoring]

Ron,

Thanks for the Photos.  The smalll bumps around the greens are very similar to what Travis did here as well.  The more Travis work that I see it is amazing other architects did not use his style for green complexes.  They are some of the best I have ever seen. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Ron,

Thanks for the Photos.  The smalll bumps around the greens are very similar to what Travis did here as well.    

Did where?--Whoops, just saw that you are at CCS. Heard GREAT things about CCS.

[GBoring]

Ron,

We just completed a year long course renovation to the original Travis Course.  All the bunkers were rebuilt and we added run-off/chipping areas around most of the green complexes.  This is something that Travis had put in originally but was lost over time.   

[Ed Homsey]

Check out Greg Boring's blog site for some great pictures of the renovation project they've done at CC of Scranton.  They've done a beautiful job. 

Choosing the Travis course that has the greatest 18-hole (or close to 18 holes) set of Travis greens would be an endless debate.  The debate would have to consider courses such as Troy, Scranton, Cherry Hill Club, North Jersey Country Club, Hollywood, Cape Arundel, and Westchester west.  9-hole sets would include: front nine at Pennhills Club in Bradford, PA, back nine at Yahnundasis.  Would be fun to have a tour in order to settle the debate.  I think it'd end up in a tie!

Ed Homsey
www.travissociety.com

[Ronald Montesano]

Now that you've seen the photos, I'm going to give a perspective (my own) on each hole, what I liked and what I didn't.

Hole #1...When you have a blind tee shot right off the bat, it's a great way to train the golfer to expect anything. The maiden golfer asks the member or the veteran what the aiming point is and a conversation is born. The fairway leans left, so a good aiming point is right edge of fairway. Here's the best part: the blind shot (unless you are a bomber) comes on the second shot/approach. The green sits at grade, at fairway level. There is a bit of a swale in front, that keeps some balls from bouncing completely on, but it keeps you honest, in some perverse way. The green falls off on three sides and does not present easy recoveries...MISS SHORT!

[Ed Homsey]

Fantastic, Ron.  I'm looking forward to you thinking on each hole, as it relates to the design of the hole. i'm thinking that Troy demands some careful thinking on most of their golf holes.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #2...It's not a "Short" in the precise sense of the MacRaynBanks tradition...there is no thumbprint and the sand does not ring the green. It is incredibly similar to the 14th at Mohawk (Dev Emmett) just up the road, but this short par three actually plays uphill. Not nearly as much uphill as #15 (you'll have to wait a few days for that review), #2 still requires you to think about taking the longer club. A forest of trees blocks the wind effect directly behind the green, so the flag may hang limply with wind in your face! The necklace of 7 or 8 bunkers surrounds the putting surface. The green itself is two-tiered, bisected by a perpendicular (to the tee) spine, making it a front/back tiering. I socketed my seven-iron and had to hit a recovery from ten yards right of the green. I was fortunate to get it to ten feet, but not lucky enough to maneuver the ball into the hole for par. This green does not possess the complex internal contouring of many of the putting surfaces yet to come; instead, it announces that your putt is either quite uphill or quite downhill (when changing tiers) or quick enough (influence of the hill, I suspect) to pay it respect.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #3...I have a tendency to step up to the tee on a hole like this and predict how tasty it will be when I eat it alive. A short and straight par four gets me every time. Lose it a bit right and the few trees on that side block out your aerial approach (although the ground route resists the trees.) If you don't play a left to right shot out of habit, the hole will demand counter-intuition (a draw into a hillside on the tee ball and the approach.) The absence of fairway bunkers places less premium on the accuracy of the drive. The removal of spin (by the rough) on a wayward tee shot's approach tends to send the ball careening toward the back of the green. Approach shots that come in from the left will not find the anticipated kick board right; the slant of the hillside rough flattens on the green, eliminating a starboard kick. The putting surface has movement, albeit not what you expect from Travis greens. By this time, on your maiden voyage, you might surmise that the greens at Troy are overrated...

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole # 4...This is one that I would play again and again, if I had to choose just one. It's all about the angle of the blind drive; if you catch it flush, at the proper angle, you have a chance to bump on down the fairway and have a go at the green in two. That would be the right side. If you go up the left, you have to lay up in most instances. When you lay up, your third appears to have more length than reality dictates. The approach seems uphill, yet the green smacks balls to the back. Inconceivably, upon arrival, the green is pitched from back to front, making those putts from the rear all the more challenging. Really, truly loved this hole. After the pastoral opening triumvirate, this one horse-collars you and says "Welcome to Troy" with a Jack Torrance grin.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #5...
When you get to the bottom you go back to the top...

The 5th is one of those holes that perhaps has the ill-fortune of following the first whiz-bang memorable hole on a golf course (although some consider #2 to be that whiz-bang hole.) In any case, the 5th isn't at all interested nor concerned. A tee ball from on high, back and beyond the 4th green, quickly hits into the upturned fairway slope and slows. One of those terrific holes where first you think "yay, extra yardage off the downhill careen," quickly replace by "crikey, right into the slope and pudding." Now, pay attention. Hit it up the left and you'll need to shape an approach around some sentinel, specimen trees. Your true play is out to the right, from where the green opens up. The green is sighted on a mild plateau and is mildly sloped downward, toward the approach. The green is protected by a solitary, front-right bunker; it seems to have a petulant air about that hazard, as if to say unnecessary, thank you. Five is the hole you bogey, then look back with a series of exclamations: oh, so that's how it sets up...followed by if I had played my tee ball there... concluding with I could have run the blasted orb onto the green, for goodness' sake. On to number six!

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #6...
When you get to the top, you go back to the bottom...

The 6th hole, a par four, runs a bit blind out to a tier, then drops down to the green. Word on the fairway is that a young man aced the hole last season, as the course was playing fast and firm. The play is certainly up the right side, as left will bring some tree blockage. There are some bunkers up the right for honesty's sake. When you get to your drive, you look down at a green set on the edge of a further drop-off; the air and ground options are in the wheelhouse. Two bunkers protect the left side, but the play should always be to the middle of this smallish green.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #7...

The seventh is the second par five and the most schizophrenic hole yet...am I wide or narrow? WIDE OR NARROW?? The drive is best played out to the right side of the fairway. The 7th occupies more terrain than any other corner of the golf course. Anyway, back to the 7th hole. Bang that drive out there, then hit a good fairway metal that avoids the fairway bunkers up the right side. The green is set at grade level, but is not accessible with a run-up shot. You'll need to fly a wedge in. The putting surface has a lot of character and is framed in the back by three dragon's teeth mounds. All in all, an enjoyable par five. Not all-world, but certainly quality and worthy.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #8...
This is a gem of a par three. It might have been a found hole, located in a distant corner of the property, between 7 green and 9 tee. As this photo shows, Travis did a lot with a little. The first half of the holes is not mowed down, creating a fescue half-wall between tee and fairway. The fairway itself is marked by two distortional bunkers. They serve to distort the golfer's perspective from tee to green. As can be seen from the overhead, a fair 20 yards of fairway remain between sand and putting surface. The green is characterized by fall-off edges to chipping/pitching/putting areas, typical Travis green movement and a lot room in which to do it. When Travis greens are large and undulating, you have a memorable fun house of putting prowess; I cannot imagine a kid golfer growing up here with a bad short game.

[Tim Martin]

Hole #8...
This is a gem of a par three. It might have been a found hole, located in a distant corner of the property, between 7 green and 9 tee. As this photo shows, Travis did a lot with a little. The first half of the holes is not mowed down, creating a fescue half-wall between tee and fairway. The fairway itself is marked by two distortional bunkers. They serve to distort the golfer's perspective from tee to green. As can be seen from the overhead, a fair 20 yards of fairway remain between sand and putting surface. The green is characterized by fall-off edges to chipping/pitching/putting areas, typical Travis green movement and a lot room in which to do it. When Travis greens are large and undulating, you have a memorable fun house of putting prowess; I cannot imagine a kid golfer growing up here with a bad short game.

I love the look of this hole with the fescue out in front of you off the tee. The two bunkers short of the green are described aptly by RoMo in that they certainly "distort your perspective" and create a little doubt on the tee. At 193/185 the preferred shot would fly into the green although you are given the option to try and chase one in if accurate enough to avoid the bunkers. Travis really mixes it up nicely as to length and topography on the one shotters.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole # 9...

The ninth at CC Troy is one of those fun holes where, if you relax and hit two smooth shots, you'll smile a lot. The tee ball, as seen from the photo tour, is uphill and blind. Tim and I kinda guessed where we had to go, went there and found our shots. We were both inside 180 nautical yards to the green, which sat (still blind) 65 yards below the landing area. If you drive to the edge of the shelf, you can see the green, the bunkers and the proper line. We both found our way down the hill and imagined that really long hitters could get a drive down the shelf and get near the green in one. The right side of the putting surface is bunkered, while the left is protected by a series of uneven nobs and knolls. The green, as I recall, is segmented into a series of tiered parcels; putting from one to the next can be exhilarating and enervating in one emotional moment.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole # 10...

Essentially the reverse of #9, blast your drive toward the hill, then drive/walk to the rise to get a target for your blind second shot. The green is bunkerless and rightfully so. It's tricky, with nasty fall-offs to the sides. It also, if memory serves, runs slightly from front to back, opposite normal expectations. Par here is tasty like fried chicken.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #11...

If you didn't look left of hole #6 as you came through, you have no idea how hole #11 ends. The second hole on the inward nine begins with a tee ball over a barranca, past a tree, inside of a stand of trees up the left. There is plenty of room to drive the ball on the hole, although your eyes might trick you into seeing it narrower than it is. Once you reach your tee ball, the hole opens up and you want to take a shot at the green in two. By all means, do so. I had full S/W into the green and then three-whacked for bogey (don't get me started on my par five travails...) The green on #11 is tough to reach and not so simple to putt. It is an enjoyable and challenging hole that brings you deep into the course in the space of one solitary fairway.

[Ronald Montesano]

Hole #12...

Call it a short par four or a long par three (it's the later), it doesn't matter much. It's a half-par hole, especially from the 240-yard tips. There is enough sand to force you to thread the wide needle (but still a needle that might fit two camels on a good day). Your work is not finished when you reach the green, for the bathtub threatens. That's the spillway to the right, halfway into the green. In typical Travis fashion, he forces you to do so much work just getting there, you overlook an obvious trap and before you know it, you're in the gully. You could train a youth golfer on this hole alone and she/he would advance properly. A challenge off the tee and great greenside spaces to practice all the short-game shots.

[Sean_A]

Zowie, biggest surprise tour of the year to date.  This course looks outstanding.  How come I haven't heard tons about it?  New Yorkers are usually brash - what gives? 

One question about the 4th.  Why isn't the green extended out to include the large collar?  I wondered this too about Woking's 6th.  I don't understand why it wouldn't be a boon to have a larger green when water has to be covered - more hole locations available.


Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Thanks, Sean, for the evocative "zowie." 1000 pictures are worth that word.

There is a monstrous difference between upstaters and downstaters. We of the upstate are more midwestern, less brash.

The right collar would be a lower tier to the green. I suppose that a)Travis did it originally and it was abandoned or; b) Travis didn't do it. I presume that historic aerials would tell us which is more truth-reliant.

It is a par five hole. What that matters, I don't know. Now that you mention it, it would certainly add a new catalogue of hole locations and playing strategies to the shelf.