[Matt_Cohn]

The NCGA included a pretty detailed map and explanation of the proposed changes with the new NCGA magazine that I received in the mail today. Unfortunately my scanner is having software issues and the document isn't online yet. Maybe another NorCal GCA'er can oblige?

A few observations:

The nines are somewhat unbalanced (which is fine, but just saying): 3,797/36 vs. 3,266/35. The three longest par 4's and the two longest par 5's are all on the front nine.

There's a LOT of sand in a Pine Valley kind of way. Is there sand under Poppy Hills or do they have to buy and truck in an insane amount of it?

Here's the one thing I really feel iffy about. The course will now have five par threes that all play towards the same quadrant of the compass:

2 N (right to left green)
6 N (right to left green)
11 NNW
15 WNW (right to left green)
17 WNW

I don't know how they could have avoided it but it concerns me a little.

[David_Tepper]

"Is there sand under Poppy Hills or do they have to buy and truck in an insane amount of it?"


Matt -

The article did say they would be bringing in sand to sand-cap the fairways. I am 99% sure there used to be a commercial sand pit/quarry somewhere on the Pebble Beach property. I presume there is still some sand available there.

It did say the project would start in March, 2013, but I could not find a date for when the course will re-open. Did you see one?

DT 

[Joel_Stewart]

Anything is better than what it is.  It's a very tired 1980's golf course.   

Bruce Charlton is in charge and they are hoping he brings some good mojo from Chambers Bay.   I believe the goal is to bring a Pinehurst look to the course.

I heard last week they are mailing out the RFPs for the construction companies this week.   The permits are complete.  I think they expect the course to be closed for 1 year?

Matt, are they changing the 1st hole?  10, 11 and 12 was somewhat the focus but I talked with someone prominent the other day who called the 1st the worst opening hole in golf.

[astavrides]

are they changing the 1st hole?  10, 11 and 12 was somewhat the focus but I talked with someone prominent the other day who called the 1st the worst opening hole in golf.

The article said that they are changing #1 so that there is actually going to be a landing area for drives now.  They didn't quite say it with that tone, but pretty much....

[Matt_Cohn]

"Is there sand under Poppy Hills or do they have to buy and truck in an insane amount of it?"


Matt -

The article did say they would be bringing in sand to sand-cap the fairways. I am 99% sure there used to be a commercial sand pit/quarry somewhere on the Pebble Beach property. I presume there is still some sand available there.

It did say the project would start in March, 2013, but I could not find a date for when the course will re-open. Did you see one?

DT 

David I'm pretty sure they're bringing in sand for sand-capping. I was more referring to the acres and acres of "waste areas" that will be a part of the new course. The rendering shows an amount of sand waste area similar to what Pine Valley has, at least based on what I can see on Google Maps. I just don't know where they're getting enough sand to cover...5 acres? I doubt Poppy's ground is sand-based.

[Matt_Cohn]

are they changing the 1st hole?  10, 11 and 12 was somewhat the focus but I talked with someone prominent the other day who called the 1st the worst opening hole in golf.

The article said that they are changing #1 so that there is actually going to be a landing area for drives now.  They didn't quite say it with that tone, but pretty much....

The first hole will have "significant fairway balancing to allow for a larger landing area."

So, whatever that is, that's what they're going to do.   

The map does show a slightly wider fairway but it seems like the work is going to be more on the grading than the actual corridor. The green will also be more accessible along the ground.

[Matt_Cohn]

[Kevin_Reilly]

I haven't received my magazine yet...do they show cart paths on the map?

[Matt_Cohn]

I haven't received my magazine yet...do they show cart paths on the map?

They're not on the plan, no.

[Dan King]

Is the picture Matt posted the new plan?  Because the routing looks to me like it is identical to what is on the ground now.

Cheers,
Dan King

Even the men's room has a double dogleg.
 --Dave Stockton (on the Poppy Hills course in Pebble Beach)

[Kevin_Reilly]

I haven't received my magazine yet...do they show cart paths on the map?

They're not on the plan, no.

Not surprising.

[Kyle Henderson]

Is the picture Matt posted the new plan?  Because the routing looks to me like it is identical to what is on the ground now.

Cheers,
Dan King

Even the men's room has a double dogleg.
 --Dave Stockton (on the Poppy Hills course in Pebble Beach)

The only routing change appears to be removal of the old 11th, with the new 11th playing in a different direction and essentially occupying what used to be the driving corridor off of the 12th tee. The the new 12th will playstraight away rather than as a dogleg to the right.

Elsewhere, the doglegs appear to be less "sharp." I wonder is this will bear out on the ground or if the current corridors will be enforced to protect the endangered Del Monte ppines.

[Kyle Henderson]

Is there sand under Poppy Hills or do they have to buy and truck in an insane amount of it?

If memory serves...:
The Spanish Bay golf course was a sand mine years ago. When the Pebble Beach Co was granted permission to "renovate" the property, they were not allowed to use sand/soil from outside of the peninsula (for fear of importing disease/foreign plants/etc, I assume). Also, neighborhood ordinances prevented more than 2 truckloads per day (noise concerns). The solution was to build a conveyor belt and bring sand to the site that way from a nearby property. After the sand was brought in and the course was shaped, landscaping efforts were completed between the playing corridors using native plant species. This prompted the California Coastal Commission to designate these areas "environmentally sensitive," preventing golfers from playing or even retrieving shots that miss the fairways by more than a few yards...

I assume the Poppy Hills renovation faces similar obstacles.

[Jon Spaulding]

Kyle, that's correct regarding Spanish Bay. A customer told me some time ago that the conveyor was about 1 mile long, starting at the end of the beach at highway 68. There are some outstanding photos of the old sand plant on the Julian Graham website. I believe it went out of production in the early 70's. The photo of a CAT dozer mining sand directly from the beach hangs on my wall at work.

I would guess that the material for this job is coming from Salinas, which contains gorgeous sand. Not sure if the material from Marina is acceptable. My interest in this job would be more in a customer making a few bucks than being served more RTJ tripe at Pinehurst pricing once the work is done.

[Bob_Huntley]

are they changing the 1st hole?  10, 11 and 12 was somewhat the focus but I talked with someone prominent the other day who called the 1st the worst opening hole in golf.

The article said that they are changing #1 so that there is actually going to be a landing area for drives now.  They didn't quite say it with that tone, but pretty much....

TThe first tournament that I entered at Poppy Hills was when John Zoller was in charge. The carnage at the first hole was so bad it was taking an inordinate of time to play it. I think it took something six hours to complete the round. I spoke to Zoller about it and said that the hole needed to be scapped. He took umbage at my suggestion and didn't speak to me for a long, long time.

[Tim Leahy]

It looks like they are removing the pond from #5.  Was that really needed?   Also it doesn't look like they moved the tee on #1, where are they getting the extra room from for the driving area?

[Matt_Cohn]

It looks like they are removing the pond from #5.  Was that really needed?   Also it doesn't look like they moved the tee on #1, where are they getting the extra room from for the driving area?

I believe they felt the pond on 5 was unnatural and unnecessary, which is true.

For #1, the green on 9 is being moved left and down, which creates new room to bring the #1 tee back towards where the back fringe of #9 is currently.

[David_Tepper]

I do think the NCGA deserves credit for being so upfront about what they are planning to do and distributing all this information to the membership. I would be surprised everyone will approve of what is being done, but at least everyone will know what is being done.

[Dan King]

Kyle Henderson writes:
The only routing change appears to be removal of the old 11th, with the new 11th playing in a different direction and essentially occupying what used to be the driving corridor off of the 12th tee. The the new 12th will playstraight away rather than as a dogleg to the right.

I haven't played Poppy Hills this century. But I thought I read where they had already done that, because the pros all hated the 12th hole. Perhaps they only changed it for the tournament?

Cheers,
Dan King

It's like replacing Bo Derek with Roseanne Barr.
 --Johnny Miller (on Poppy Hills replacing Cypress Point as part of the home for the AT&T Pro-Am)

[Keith Doleshel]

I'm an NCGA member and think that Poppy Hills sure could use some improvement, I'm still wondering what the ultimate goal of the renovation is.  They will be spending a lot of money to change things, but I can't imagine that it will lead to them getting the PGA Tour to come back or any high profile events except for NCGA tournaments or perhaps a Cal State Am if it goes really well.  I'm glad that they are looking to make it a better golf course for the members, I just am curious about what the NCGA thinks it will lead to.

[David_Tepper]

"I just am curious about what the NCGA thinks it will lead to."

Keith D. -

Why does it have to "lead to" anything? Wouldn't it be nice just to have a better playing and better draining course available every day for the membership? 

That being said, hasn't the NCGA been cut back on their access to using Spyglass for NCGA tournaments? If more and more NCGA tournaments will be held at Poppy Hills, it would certainly make sense to improve that course.

DT

[David Bartman]

I'm an NCGA member and think that Poppy Hills sure could use some improvement, I'm still wondering what the ultimate goal of the renovation is.  They will be spending a lot of money to change things, but I can't imagine that it will lead to them getting the PGA Tour to come back or any high profile events except for NCGA tournaments or perhaps a Cal State Am if it goes really well.  I'm glad that they are looking to make it a better golf course for the members, I just am curious about what the NCGA thinks it will lead to.

They had to redo their irrigation system ,  along the same lines, sand capping the fairways will solve drainage issues that were abundant on the golf course after a rain.   Once those monies were determined a must, they decided to fix what many perceived as problems with the original design with the sharp doglegs, most likely lengthening landing areas for the longer hitters , in an attempt to both modernize the golf course for current technology and most likely in an effort to get back to hosting premier events.   The state Am was taken away and hasn't gone back since the removal of Pebble as the host course.    

They were taken out of the rotation for the AT&T, by the players, that is pretty embarrassing.  All the press releases indicate that they are not implementing these changes to get back into the rotation, but maybe trying to host a USGA event.  

From a green perspective they are going to have 14.5 acres less of irrigated turf, lowering their water impact.  


They specifically list Pine Valley as their model!!  I sure hope it turns out great, just the map looks much improved then what they had before.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Good post David Bartman.  I agree.

[Kyle Henderson]

It has been talked about for some time, but the old 11th was still in place when I played the course 12 months ago.

Kyle Henderson writes:
The only routing change appears to be removal of the old 11th, with the new 11th playing in a different direction and essentially occupying what used to be the driving corridor off of the 12th tee. The the new 12th will playstraight away rather than as a dogleg to the right.

I haven't played Poppy Hills this century. But I thought I read where they had already done that, because the pros all hated the 12th hole. Perhaps they only changed it for the tournament?

Cheers,
Dan King

It's like replacing Bo Derek with Roseanne Barr.
 --Johnny Miller (on Poppy Hills replacing Cypress Point as part of the home for the AT&T Pro-Am)

[Keith Doleshel]

David Tepper,
Hey, I'm glad that they are making the golf course better.  I don't have anything against the improvements in theory, hope they turn out for the best.  I don't make it down to Poppy very often, but have avoided it in the past once the rainy season started.

David Bartman,
I agree the map looks better already than the current layout.  You are more aware of the irrigation issues than myself, and sand capping will have to improve drainage.  The doglegs getting softened are also a good thing if they are hoping to draw any type of premier event. 

I hope the golf course turns out to be great, I guess maybe I'm a little cynical that these improvements are taking place after a PGA Tour event left under less than ideal circumstances.  I think it would be great to have a premier course for the membership, and a championship test for NCGA events, let alone potential USGA tournaments.

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