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Kyle Harris

Llanerch CC
« on: March 10, 2005, 05:56:13 PM »
http://www.philgolfmag.com/PGM/pgm/2005/March_05/pg11.htm

Does anybody know anything about the specifics of the restoration?

Llanerch was the site of my first tournament ever - the 1999 US Junior Am Qualifier...

It's also hosted a major championship: The 1957 PGA... which has what distinction?

Dow Finsterwald won with a very unique score for the event.

TEPaul

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 09:58:59 PM »
I do, what would you like to know? I spent half a day over there about a month and a half ago with architect Stephen Kay, the super and the restoration crew.

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 10:09:09 PM »
Tom,

should Llanarch have kept the course or sold?  

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 10:12:08 PM »
http://www.philgolfmag.com/PGM/pgm/2005/March_05/pg11.htm

Does anybody know anything about the specifics of the restoration?

Llanerch was the site of my first tournament ever - the 1999 US Junior Am Qualifier...

It's also hosted a major championship: The 1957 PGA... which has what distinction?

Dow Finsterwald won with a very unique score for the event.

This was the first year the PGA was conducted at stroke play, no?  Or was it the last it was conducted at match play?  

-DRB
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Kyle Harris

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 10:56:32 PM »
DRB,

First at stroke.

Tom Paul,

Just curious as to what the specifics were, anything of note other than tree removal?

New tees?

Bigger greens?

I know the older super quite well and he was telling me that he would get in battles over green speeds (he wanted them slower because of the contours). I was wondering if Stephen Kay decided to soften any. I remember No. 10 green being quite treacherous!

TEPaul

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 06:53:36 AM »
"Tom,
should Llanarch have kept the course or sold?"

Jason:

I'm not entirely sure what all Llanarchs issues are but I never like to see a club sell their course to development. Llanarch has some real history to it---and the project the course is undergoing definitely enhances the course. If they're still considering selling the property I can't imagine why they'd bother to go through a full-blown restoration first.  


TEPaul

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 07:12:31 AM »
Kyle:

It's a full-blown restoration or let's say Master Plan project--trees, bunkers and some greens, and some tee expansions. The 17th green was recontoured back to reasonableness and it looks really good to me. It's the only one I looked at with that in mind.

Are you all aware of the plaque on the short par four where Jay Sigel made a hole in one? Not just that but he eagled the following hole, a par 5. Five under on two consecutive holes ain't exactly chopped liver!

Sigel has done some pretty amazing things in his career but that one may take the cake. Although it may be neck and neck with another amazing feat he pulled off which was slapping me around to the tune of 7 and 6 one time but oddly after I cleaned the dirt and blood off myself it was me and not him who went on to the next round.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 07:14:24 AM by TEPaul »

Kyle Harris

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 07:39:07 AM »
Hearing this makes me happy. You're right, Llanerch is full of history and to me is something of an anamoly in the Philadelphia area. With the exception of Walnut Lane, there isn't much Alex Findlay left kicking around the area and it would be a pity to lose the course. Also, the club generates so many good players it's ridiculous.

I made a twelve on 17 in the Junior Am qualifier....

TEPaul

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 07:47:10 AM »
Llanerch sure does have a lot of good players and some ultra long ones like Player of the Year like the last three out of four years Michael McDermott. Just last fall McDermott stood on the tee at #18, a short par 4 which he commonly drives and either a gust of wind came up behind him or he gave it a bit too much because he sailed the ball directly over the flag and over the green into the clubhouse and ripped a gin and tonic completely out of the hand of one of the usual old sots on the upstairs porch behind the green who'd obviously had a few too many and lost sight of Michael's ball in the air!

Kyle Harris

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 07:51:40 AM »
Was anything done to 18? Not that they're in play, but I remember the beginning of the fairway being crowded by pine trees and also the bunkering in the front of the green seemed a bit contrived...

Steve Sayers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 08:55:12 AM »
More trivia about Llanerch:

Llanerch hosted the 1945 Philadelphia Inquire Invitational Tournament won by Byron Nelson.  This was win # 7 in the string of 11 consecutive

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 04:28:34 PM »
Kyle, Coatesville CC (Chester Co.) and Reading CC (Berks Co.) are both Findlay courses near Philly too...

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 04:41:13 PM »
In addition to "Goatsville" and Reading CC...our course at Tavistock(Alex Findlay) will be undergoing a major restoration starting Aug 1, 2006.  Alot of initial tree clearing has already been under way this winter, with more to come as the project advances.

Under the guidance of Jim Nagle and Ron Forse, we are very excited about the next few years at Tavistock.  If all goes as planned, the golf course will really look outstanding.

I do look forward to seeing what Kaye is doing with Llanerch.  There are a number of very good holes on that course that will surely benefit from some much needed tree clearing.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2005, 04:58:24 PM »
Llanerch is clearly somewhere about which I should know but, being based a few thousand miles away, I don't.  Please tell me more.

Kyle Harris

Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2005, 05:01:49 PM »
Llanerch is in Haverford, PA about two or three miles as the crow flies from Merion East/West. It hosted the 1957 PGA Championship, which was the first one contested at medal play and won by Dow Finsterwald. The course is an Alex Findlay design. Recently, the club has been known for it's talented membership, both junior and amateur.

It commonly hosts USGA Qualifiers. It's in the middle of the Philly suburbs and used to be 27 holes before 9 were sold to development. The greens are very contoured and the course is fairly short for the area (~6700 yards from the tips).

The 18th is a par four reachable off the tee by the longer hitters.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Llanerch CC
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2005, 05:07:42 PM »
Kyle, Thanks.

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Llanerch CC
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2012, 10:23:51 PM »
Bumping this after reflecting on the course as presented in the GAP Member Play Day today.  

There is a tremendous amount of golf in the reasonably compact grounds of the club.  This is a fun golf course to play.  The thought that most commonly came to mind was "crafty".  In a good way.  

Just a few thoughts:
Some of the course feels a little tight--they could probably stand to lose the balance of the evergreens on the property, as there are some fine hardwood trees that provide a measure of safety and shade.  In addition, it may improve vistas across the course.  It's the club's decision, though. 
It struck me as a course where a good amount of local knowledge is needed.  Speaking for myself, I found the greens difficult but not impossible.  
others in my group found them very difficult.  
There was more room off the tee and into the greens than I expected on most holes. 

The fescues on the bunkers may have been a little much.  It works at the courses "up the street", my personal opinion is the course is strong enough without it.  In other words, I'm not sure what the additive is.  
(I would say this even if my slightly pulled 5-iron on #4 didn't settle into the fescue above the left greenside bunker.  For the record, couldn't play directly at the flag, I hit out to the front of the green, flag was back, chip and putt for 4.)

I think the routing is excellent.  Again, some of it feels a little cramped, but, as the saying goes, you can't have it all.  I feel it's very similar to Glen Ridge in terms of routing on a small piece of property.  There just isn't anywhere else to go.  
I do think this routing is a little stronger at Llanerch than GR, there seems to be a little more variety in terms of change of direction, moreso on the second nine holes.  I seemed to feel there was more internal elevation change on the property at Llanerch, whereas GR has more total elevation change from the clubhouse (1,10 tee, 9, 18 greens) down to the 4th and 16th holes.  Slightly different apples to compare here.  
Looking at the oldest historic aerials, it appears there were some holes between the clubhouse and West Chester Pike that gave way to Parking Lot, Pool and tennis.  Having said that, it's their club, they can do what they want.  

It appears, from a comparison of aerials, that not a lot was changed in terms of routing.  Looking at older aerials, from the 1940s, as compared to one from say, 2008 after the Master Plan implementation, much is very similar.  It does appear that #2 and #3 holes are newer, but a lot of the bunkering is very similar.  If any, there may be less bunkers now.  What Stephen did seems very much in line with what was built initially.  I am not sure what the club's mandates were, whether they chose an "architectural high water mark" or if they had other criteria.  The point is, it works.  

Beyond the routing, the design of the greens made a positive impression.  There are different looks represented here, from single tiers and shelves, to three tiers (ex. #12), to small humps (ex. #7), to greens that are simple extensions of the fairway and lay softly (ex. #11).  Very good as a set, although I really like Glen Ridge's concept of slightly offset greens, favoring a shot from one side of the fairway or another.  But, that's Findlay vs. Park, Jr.  Further, my understanding is Findlay hired a local construction crew depending on where he was, so there is likely variation among courses as to overall appearance.  This is fine, it is what it is. 

We took carts as a condition of competition, but this seems as it would be a really good walking course.  I would like to play it again.  This seems to meet the "18th green back to 1st tee test".  I would have gladly gone back to 1 tee given the opportunity. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 10:45:19 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Llanerch CC
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2012, 10:43:43 PM »
I was thinking about trying to get out to Llanerch on my recent hit and run Philly trip.  But I only had one day, and I had a couple of extenuating circumstances, but the more I read about it the more I wish I had done so, or should I say the more I want to see it on a subsequent trip because I had a wonderful day as it was.

I have always wondered though do you pronounce it "Lan-ark"?  or "Lan-erk"?  or maybe something completely different from either of those, I have never been quite sure.

Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Llanerch CC
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2012, 10:48:36 PM »
I have always wondered though do you pronounce it "Lan-ark"?  or "Lan-erk"?  or maybe something completely different from either of those, I have never been quite sure.



Daryl,

  I believe, and may be mistaken, it's "Lan-erk". 
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

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