De Noordwijkse Golf Club - Photo Tour

[David Davis]

Ariel view with prevailing wind direction: average wind speed based on annual average, 4.5 windforce<br />

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#1. 353 meters (386 yds) par 4 (SI 13) – Slight dogleg left from an elevated tee to highly undulated fairway sloping left to right. Elevated green with a false front protected by pot bunkers front right and left. The ideal tee shot favors the left side of the fairway but flirts with ball losing rough to the left on the dune.

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Green of the 1st:

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New #1 hole tee shot into the dunes to the left of the current hole.

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New #1 just over the dune looking up the new routing where the fairway will be.

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Looking back towards the tee of the new #1 hole. The tee is on top the dune by the small storm shelter. It will be moved back about 15 meters to the right. The carry looks long and will be intimidating but is not that far, maybe 100 yds although I don’t have exact details.

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WW2 bunker hidden to the left, next to the fairway. This will be covered but due to the bats living inside they need to keep an opening. I would prefer to see this historical monument built into the hole in some way however there are safety issues with errand shots and ricochets. Never seemed to stop them in Scotland.

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Look up toward the future elevated green.

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From the new green of #1 looking back into the dunes and towards the club house. The WWII bunker is down to the right.

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#2. 547 meter (598 yds.) par 5 (SI 5) – This par 5 requires a long straight drive. The only water on the course is off to the right of the landing zone. Carry is about 150 yds from the back tees. The prevailing wind blows hard right to left and against. The difficulty of this drive is that you have to be long enough to enable yourself to hit your second shot up to the plateau of the dune or be faced with a long blind approach to a very difficult small elevated green. The second shot is one of the toughest shots on the course. Either side of the fairway is flirting with lost balls.

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#2 Second shot. After a drive of about 280 yds. As you can see a low iron or hybrid is necessary to leave an approach with a view of the green.

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#2 Approach. As you can see reaching the top of the dune  awards you with a view of the #2 green which is highly elevated and undulated, not to mention small with a false front. Anything short rolls 30 yds down the hill, long is into deep ball losing rough.

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#2 Green. View from just in front and below.

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#3. 152 meter (166 yds) par 3 (SI 17). This par 3 plays from an elevated tee to a small two tiered green. The prevailing wind is from the hard from the right. A run up shot is possible and practical here but only when hitting a perhaps a club less. 150 yds carry is still necessary. Upper tier pin positions are very tough to reach and still stop the ball.

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#3. Looking back from green to tee.

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#4. 423 meters (462 yds) par 4 (SI 1). This monster of a par 4 plays uphill still with the prevailing wind coming from the right. A solid and long drive will leave a long iron/fairways wood to a small elevated green. Down the middle is really the only option here, left is ball lost and right is deep rough and trees. There is a plateau off to the right beyond the trees that will catch long faded drives (roughly 280 yds).

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#4 approach uphill.

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#4 green looking back.

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#5. 377 meter (412 yds.) par 4 (SI 3). This tough par 4 normally plays into the wind. There is a sharp dogleg right running down a hill around the trees to the green. A well struck 3 wood or driver of about 250 yds is the only way to have a shot at the green. In most cases the approach will be blind unless the drive is far enough to start to climb out of the swale before the dogleg.

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View from the approach from the top of the swale. Today’s pin position is right and out of view even for a long drive.

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#5 green. Protected by a deep pot bunker on the right. The green allows for a relatively easy run up approach.

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#6. 171 meter (187 yds) par 3 (SI 15). This visually intimidating par 3 requires a 5-6 iron. The holes is quite treacherous as misses both left and right are severely punish. The green is very narrow and relatively long and undulated. Right is a pot bunker and left drops off immediately into deep rough.

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#6 green.

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#7. 331 meter (362 yds) par 4 (SI 7). This par 4 dogleg left requires a long iron or hybrid from the tee long enough to allow for an open shot around the dogleg to the green. A good drive will feed down to the left and leave a short to mid iron approach to a raised green protected by two pot bunkers on the right and a run off to the left. One of the larger green (still not that large).

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#7 approach.

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#7 green.

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#8. 369 meter (403 yds) par 4 (SI 11). This par 4 dogleg (sharp) left around or over the large dune and down to small protected green. One of the most difficult drives from the back tees as the prevailing wind is hard left to right and the ideal drive needs to hug the dune or go over the top but that requires a carry of about 280 yds excluding wind. Anything fading to the right will also bounce right and drift in the wind at which time risk of a lost ball is eminent due to gorse and high rough. Tough to see in the photo but the fairway has a steep slope going up to the right of the large dune. A drive less than about 250 yds will leave a tough blind approach up and over the dune into the wind.

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#8 approach from a good long drive.

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#8 green.

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#9. 509 meter (556 yds) par 5 (SI 9). This long par 5 plays straight into the prevailing wind and requires 3 solid shots to reach the raised green that slopes heavily back to front and is protected by pot bunkers left and right.

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#9 green tucked into the hill #10 fairway coming back out.

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#10. 400 meter (438 yds) par 4 (SI 2). The 10th requires a perfect drive with a carry of about 260 yds in order to find the blind landing area which is in a deep swale. Left or right is knee deep rough requiring you to step on the ball if you want to find it and landing short on the good line finds gorse. It is possible to play short of the swale and have a full view of the green but the shot in will be in excess of 200 yds to a green that is raised sloping right to left with two distinct levels and steep run offs on the left and back side.
This view is looking back down the 10th from behind the green.

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#11. 457 meter (500 yds) par 5 (SI 16). This short par 5 plays from a highly elevated tee into a valley and then back up to an elevated small post-stamp of a green protects on the left by a large pot bunker. Note this hole will be revised next year by moving the green 25-30 meters up to the left into the dunes.

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#11 approach. A long drive to a left to right sloping fairway that manages to avoid the pot bunkers is rewarded with a shot to go at this green in two, depending on the wind. The approach is uphill and semi blind.

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#11 green. As mention this will be moved to the left and up into the dune increasing the length about 30 meters. Green is a bit too small to provide for several interesting pin positions.

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#12. 134 meter (146 yds) par 3 (SI 18). This short elevated par 3 plays steep downhill to a small green with wind nearly always playing a factor. This should be easy hole is a thorn in the side for many a round. There is really only one shot and that’s on the green. Left and right are trouble and there is a pot bunker protecting the left front of the green. Photo is from the green looking back toward the tee which is on top and out of view.

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#13. 338 meter (369 yds) par 4 (SI 6). This is a fantastic par 4 and arguably the best hole on the course. The normal wind is left to right and plays havoc with the drive and approach. The fairways is narrow and looks even more narrow. There is a little space to the right but anything left is big trouble. Photo is looking back from the green. This green is very narrow and raised with a false front and a large pot bunker protecting the left front. The highly undulated fairway insures there are no flat lies for this approach and hitting and holding the green when the wind is up is a major accomplishment.

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#14. 514 meter (562 yds) par 5 (SI . This 3 shot par 5 normally playing straight into the wind requires a solid drive in the fairway, a fade is ideal. The second shot is to a blind landing area in a swale and the approach to the raised green is also blind although from the right side of the fairway a glimpse of the top of the flag may be had.

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#14 view of the approach.

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#15. 340 meters (372 yds) par 4 (SI 14). This short dogleg right par 4 is characterized by a blind drive over a dune and valley behind to right to left sloping fairway. A solid drive at the tip of the dune (depending on the wind) which is normally left to right helping will leave a short iron approach to a green that invites a bump and run but is protected by two difficult pot bunkers to the left and right.

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#15 landing area plus approach.

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#15 green.

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#15 view from the green looking back up the fairway.

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#16. 358 meter (392 yds) par 4 (SI 4). This demanding par 4 usually plays straight into the wind from a slightly elevated tee. An excellent drive will favor the left side of the fairway which slopes hard from left to right leave a side angle downhill like with a view of the green and pin or a semi flat lie that is blinded by a dune from the green. The approach is very tricky as the green is raised about 2.5 meters and anything short is left with a very testing up and down.

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#17. 186 meter (203 yds) par 3 (SI 12). This excellent par 3 plays from a slight elevated tee to an elevated green with a steep false front on the right front of the green. The prevailing wind is right to left against you. The green has two distinct tiers and a small plateau in the back.

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#18. 358 meter (392 yds) par 4 (SI 10). This medium length par 4 serves as a tough finishing hole and really requires two excellent shots to finish with par or better. The landing area is protected by two pot bunkers to the right side and the prevailing wind is hard left to right. An accurate long drive can pass by the bunkers and leave a short iron approach to a raised, two tiered green with a false front that falls off to the left side and is protected by a pot bunker on the front right. Missing the fairways right finds deep ball losing rough.

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#18 approach.

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#18 looking back from the green.

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Thanks for your patience everyone, I realize it’s much harder to take nice photos that clearly demonstrate the course and do it justice than I suspected it was. I realize in some of the photos the light is flat but I had fun going around and taking them which was done on two different days last weekend plus a couple are from last year taken by a friend of mine, Arjan Bor (they are the nicer ones). Placing them on the site is a bit tedious (thanks to Scott Waren for his profile signature and idiots guide to posting pics and basic html.) <br />
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As you can imagine I love our course and I’m curious who’s played it. We are currently ranked #1 in The Netherlands and #5 in Continental Europe. The architect was Frank Pennink and honestly I’m not a fan of his but he had an amazing property to work with and natural links/dunes landscape. I’m curious as to everyone’s comments and will provide my personal critique after anyone who cares to has had an opportunity to comment to make sure not to taint any views in advance.

[Mark Pearce]

David,

It looks superb.  I'm very keen to get to the Continent some time and De Noordwijkse is on my list, there was even talk some time ago of investigating the possibility of a Continental BUDA.  It looks to me as if some of the front 9 could do with a chainsaw being taken to some of those trees?  It looks awfully tight in places.

[Niall C]

David

Many thanks for the tour and what a fantastic looking course. I love the roll on some of those fairways and the way the architect seems to have fitted the hole into the existing landform, or at least thats the way it looks to me. 

In your post you talk about new holes, can you give us any more info on that. Also, your aerial suggests that there's a lot more wonderful golfing country out there thats waiting to be developed.

Niall

[David Davis]

@Mark - off the record you are hired with your chainsaw. The trees and don't get me wrong I'm as much a tree hugger (coming from Oregon) as the next guy. But I'd love for them to be taken away. They were planted between WW1 and WW2 to protect the flower fields - Tulip fields from drift sand. They are, get this...Spanish Pine Trees. Beautiful but sitting on some of the most awesome undulated dunes land on our course.

Take a look at this, this is the landscape inside the trees on the right side of the 5th hole, notice the undulation and straight ahead is a natural ridge running down towards the green, just amazing land, no shaping necessary:



Here is another one, to the left of the very tight 7th which has natural rolling undulations hidden by these southern Xmas trees.



So yes, I guess it's clear where I stand. Bring your chainsaw and we uncover a Top 100 in the world course, of this I'm certain.

As to the BUDA, I've already offered to arrange it. I can arrange 3 maybe 4 of the best clubs in The country which are all private. Kennemer for sure, most likely Royal Hague and perhaps De Pan near Utrecht. It would be a certain architectural treat for everyone involved as well as some awesome golf.

@Brian, back when I was completely unbiased (ie not a member anywhere) I believe Noordwijk was head and shoulders above the rest when you take everything into consideration; terrain, aesthetics, geographic position, surroundings, quality of holes and architecture. Now I look even more critically and realize there are many areas that can be improved (which I love) and the course can be one of the best anywhere. I really enjoy Royal Hague and Kennemer. Kennemer has surpassed Royal Hague in my view as long as we consider the KLM Open routing only, which is 1-9 of the A course, 1-3 of the B course and 4-9 of the C course.

@Niall, yes off to the left and right there are so many amazing golf courses waiting to be designed. However, I can promise you that even Trump wouldn't dare deal with the Dutch beaurocracy in attempting to get permissions. It would take a lifetime. We are in the final phase of about 4 years of getting permission to move our first hole into the dunes which are on our property. We are talking about 200 meters wide of dunes landscape that as you can see in the photos has been completely over grown with bush and shrubs, so we will also bring back the natural dunes characteristics which is what they want. However, we await the final appeal from the highest court in The Netherlands. The Organization to Preserve the Dunes Land is doing everything they can to stop us. There was also a microscopic snail species discovered that is basically invisible to the naked eye. Some organization didn't want us steping on their natural habitat and there were another half a dozen or so of this sort of hurdles. It's just amazing. For the record, I'm all for saving the animals, trees and bringing back the natural landscape. However, I'll volunteer to personal guide the snails out, feed the birds over the fence and being a purist allow Mark to bring his chainsaw to eliminate the non-native Pine trees...

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I played Noordwijk several times back in the 90s. I loved the dunes holes but I felt the woodland holes are a slight disappointment. When my boys were in their early teens I brought them here and I suspect their eclectic score was well below par. They hit the ball so hard and straight in those days! I didn't feel that the course was particularly narrow. I like the movement in the land.

[David Davis]

Mark, if you are long a straight down the middle that helps on most golf courses indeed. However 15-20 years does a lot to add to things growing over and tightening up. The fairways are generous in some places but missing them, even by the smallest of margins is costly if you find your ball at all. As I have mentioned I have a standing bet with guests. Break 80 - strokeplay from the back tees and I buy all the drinks. Don't break 80 and you owe me nothing. I've not lost it yet. Not to the 3 guys with + 3 hcps that came, not to a former Scottish Amateur champion and not to a single PGA pro. However, I wouldn't allow them to play eclectic golf and if they came on one of the 5 days a year when there was no wind, which they didn't, I wouldn't make the bet.

Here a view of a typical fairway miss this summer. Note in both picture, I missed by 1.5 inches and about 2 inches respectively. So I'd say generous but unforgiving. And I'm not saying that's a good thing.



and

[Niall C]

David

Thanks for that. I just wish the Scottish authorities had as much back-bone as the Dutch. Looking at the aerial again I wonder if there might not be a case to be made about creating another 9 holes or what ever where all the trees are thereby partly restoring what was there ?

Niall

[David Davis]

Niall,

Those trees are not on our property so the chances would again be slim to none. In the bottom middle of the ariel you see a path (bike path) that runs diagonally along the forest then curves upward (which is hard to see) along our 12th hole, the tee box of our 6th and around our 5th. That basically sperates our property line. You can't really see the bike path from the course except for a couple places.

To the right of the ariel for about 25 kms is some of the best links land you will ever see all the way up to Zandvoort where Kennemer is located. I'd love to develope about 10 courses there and make Holland the #1 links golfing destination in the world, ha ha, (that's a joke of course). However, even with Prince Willem Alexander being a member of our club I still don't think I'd have a fraction of the connections needed to get something like that done and since the cabinet collapses at least every couple months it's difficult to build up the right political connections as well. I tried to tell them about the voices in my head saying,"if you build it, they will come." however they claimed I spent too much time in Amsterdam coffee shops. (not really but it makes for a lighter hearted answer, I hope).

[Andrew Hastie]

Hello David,
Welcome to GCA!
Good to see another Dutch person joining the site (or at least someone liviving in The Netherlands like myself).
I have played Noordwijk maybe 30 times including two National Opens so I have seen the course at its best and worst!
Noordwijk is a great course but does have issues, including as already mentioned the trees! The 4th could do with a little clearing out on the right side but 5th, 6th & 7th would be tight holes on a  tree lined course let alone a links course.  
The other hole that I find a bit strange is the15th, a blind tee shot to a doglegging fairway which makes it very difficult to choose the right line of the tee, especially on a windy day.
I certainly hope the changes on the 1st go ahead, this would give the opportunity to improve the practice facilities as well!

[David Davis]

Andrew, thanks!

In fact, you bring up a good point. In 2009, the National Open was played at Noordwijk (before my time) and that will give an indication to the GCA readers how tough the course is and why I win my bet to newbies and guests. The best amateurs and pros in The Netherlands play in the National Open. In 2009, according to the record books they had winforce 5-6 on the first day (which honestly is just above our average wind) rounds of golf took on average 6.5 hours because of all the searching for balls that had to be done and the best score on the day was 73. The next 3 days there was not much wind to speak of, it was dry and sunshined on the last day. The winner was 2 over par. Runner up was +5 and 3rd was +7. Imagine what it would of been like with 4 rounds of windforce 5-6 plus wind.

[Tom_Doak]

David:

Nice photos; the course looks better than I remember it.  It was pretty chilly when I walked it a couple of years back, in early December.

I am happy to hear that there are plans underway to move the first hole into the bigger dunes to the left.  Do you have any idea how difficult the permitting was for this?  I am just surprised it is being allowed, since there is plenty of other dunesland in the area for another course but I'm told there is no way one could get permits to build it.

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks David.  I'm very interested in this course, and others in The Netherlands.  I LOVE the look of De Noordwijke Golf Club.  Looks like a ton of fun.  Thanks again!!

[David Davis]

Tom,

Yes I know pretty well. It's taken a couple years and court cases since well before my time at Noordwijkse. We have already won the final court case once and it's now in appeal and has been brought to the highest court in NL (final decision Q4). This is for land on our own property, it's untrafficed except by dear and completely over grown as you can see in the photos. I will say it's such an amazing feeling to walk through that area as you can perfectly see the golf hole through the natural lie of the dunes. Something I'm sure you are very use to. As I will be highly involved in overseeing this together with our course committee I really can't wait until this process starts. I think it's one of the most exciting things I've experienced with regards to golf aside from playing great courses. I'm happy I didn't have a lot to do with permitting process as they have a bible of permits and paperwork built up over the last years.

Our first hole is not bad in and of itself but the placement of the driving range is an eyesore as far as I'm concerned. The current driving range will be removed and brought back to the base of the womens tees out of view from the club house. We will also receive some grass practice tees, in all the facility will be one of the best in the country.

As to building more courses I'm guessing if at all possible it would take the likes of a Mike Keiser or Donald Trump's financial investment to pull that one off, together with a lot of patience. If they and you are interested then I'll happily research it with the local government. Just let me know :-)

Hope you will come back and pay us another visit some time.

[Michael Goldstein]

David: I'm a big fan of Noordwijske it's a great course. The scale of the terrain is brilliant for links golf.
The woodlands holes were a bit funny for me when I played it and looking at these pictures confirms that a chainsaw could be in order.

Was there any consideration to making more changes than just the first? And who is helping the club with the work?

Andrew Hastie: is that the one and only? If so, enjoy the action this week I'm picking the black sticks (field hockey) for a medal!

[David Davis]

Michael,

Thanks for the note. I believe Mark as mentioned below above is going to come by with his saw, you are welcome to join him if he doesn't mind sharing. In fact, I just missed you and Jamie here in NL. Although I wasn't a member of Noordwijk at the time, I would of loved to join you. Incidentally, it just shows how small the world of golf really is when you start crossing borders. I've run into a couple of mates of yours, Josh over in the UK and Bart here in NL. We met up for beer and I'd hoped to get him out already but he was too busy with hockey and I believe he is now still in NZ if I'm not mistaken. He did say one or both of you guys might be looking at a long term visit to NL starting this year? Should that be the case and you want to play golf here let me know asap as there could be things of interest to discuss.

As for the work, we are planning the following:

-new hole #1, complete new practice facilities and driving range which will be moved closer to the club house. That also requires some reworking of the dunes on the 9th hole. The dogleg of the 7th hole will be opened up and most likely a pot bunker added there after the trees are removed. The 11th green will be moved back up to the left into the dunes about 30 meters. The 12th will be lengthened and the green moved back about 15 meters and reshaped. The 18th will also be lengthened. There is also talk of redoing greens but that has not been approved as of yet.

All our work is done by Martin Ebert and Tom Mackenzie who have been doing the work on many of the Open courses as well. They do brilliant work.

[David Davis]

Mac, thanks for the interest. Let me know when you are coming!

[Jeffrey Stein]

David,

I also played the course for the first time just a few weeks ago and loved it.  The change in elevation was an exceptional aspect of the course for me.  I thought the course flowed pretty well except for a couple of awkward walks from green to tee, especially the 2nd par 3 on the front nine, long walk backwards.  On the whole I was pleased with the width of the fairways, variety of shots and general links conditions.

In contrast, I played Kenemer that morning and found the A loop to be especially narrow, with some blind drives, and heavy rough (the C loop was much more forgiving and strategic).

For the 4 courses I visited in Holland, I would rate:  1. De Pan , Royal Hague, De Noordwijkse, Kenemer

As a group, you could play these courses for the rest of your life and never get bored!

Cheers

[Andrew Hastie]

Hi Michael,
Sorry to disappoint but I'm not the the kiwi hockey player! But I am an Australian golf professional that teachers here in The Netherlands at  a course called De Lage Vuursche. So "Go the Aussies"!
I should do a photo tour of De Lage Vuursche one of these days! Pretty nice course by Kyle Phillips which opened in 2000. There is a large amount of water, but still a good strategic design with a lot of really good holes! Recently got rated the 6th best course in the Netherlands so it's worth a visit if you like to occasionally to get away from all the traditional designs!
Cheers, Andrew

[Michael Goldstein]

David, I do remember Bart telling me about an enthusiastic chap he had a beer with and judging by your debut weeks on GCA you definitely fit the bill!  Great to have you contributing on here and sharing the passion.  I'm sure Bart would love to get out for a game with you again and he arrives in NL for the hockey season again in early September.  Jamie will also be there joining him in the hockey team him but I am staying in the southern hemisphere!

I'm sure Martin and Tom will do great work and be gentlemen to work with.  Do tempt Martin to an impromptu dip in the ocean mid round, you might be surprised!

Andrew: sorry for confusing you. Definitely a small world two antipodean coaches in NL with the same name. Go for it re the photo tour!

[David Davis]

Jeffry,

Thanks for the comment. I know of at least one other, far more knowledgeable than I that has picked De Pan as #1 in NL. I'd love to hear your reasoning for the line-up as you've made it.

As mentioned I really like those 4 courses and totally agree with you, play them forever and never get bored. Add that to the fact that we often get 4 seasons in each round of golf then your set.

I'm really surprised by your comments of Kennemer however. Normally I don't find it to be narrowly set up and it's always far more forgiving than Noordwijkse which is a good thing. However, it seems you had the opposite experience and that makes the second person I've heard that from recently which makes me wonder if one of the other people was not in your playing group. I haven't been there since April which is before the rough gets really nasty in NL I suspect that this summer has caused some havoc with the extra wetness and growth. That's the only explanation I can think of as to how Kennemer could suddenly be viewed this way.

I will be at De Pan on Friday to review it with another eye but having played it many times I'm of the opinion that it may well be the best members course in NL all around. I think it is fun, a nice walk, with an excellent routing, is rather gentle and forgiving for all levels. The others you mentioned are too tough for higher handicappers, say above 15 to make them the kind of courses to play day in and day out.

However, perhaps Friday will change my mind.

[David Davis]

Michael,

It seems you know everybody. Martin is a friend of mine and they have been consulting Noordwijkse since well before my time so working with them is common place. I just played RSG with them and a wonderful gentleman who use to head up Turnberry for many years a couple weeks ago. Even though it was warm I didn't see him jumping the fence to cool off but I believe there may have been mention of this story. I was too into the round and on my on planet enjoying my first trip to RSG on a beautiful and windy day.

I'll drop Bart a note and hook up with him and Jamie when they arrive in the low(wet)lands in September. I'm a little disappointed to hear about all this golf talent coming here to hit large balls around with flat wooden sticks, or just catch them in Bart's case.

[RJ_Daley]

Most definitely an enjoyable photo tour...  Could you phonetically spell out the pronunciation of the De Noordwijkse for us folk not used to that language?

I'm not completely clear on the intentions of what will be done with the old first hole corridor.  Is some of it going to be used to relocate the practice ground?  Will a portion of it be left to return back to an un-maintained state?  If so, is this an opportunity to do some sort of demonstration project on what happens to FW turf left to just grow wild in that particular environment, as opposed to some cultivated technique to restore native grass dunesland by tilling up the FW turf and doing some sort of native seed.  I say this wondering if it is an opportunity to somehow offer a counter point to the strictest and most uncompromising of the "green" coalition to show that there are techniques to manage the conservation concerns in these sort of dunesland, with managed approaches. 

[Mike_Clayton]

RJ

We Australians used to pronounce it Nord- vige

David,

I last played here in 1996 I think - and it was always both fun and demanding.
That 7th hole was always a candidate for the worst hole I had ever played on a really good course.
I heard they had changed it a little but it looks the same to me from your photos.

[David Davis]

Mike, thanks. I have to say I agree that it's still the worst hole on the course from an architectural standpoint. Luckily it's being changed. However it was changed a lot since you played it last but it will look remotely similar. The tee was moved to the right about 80 yds, the dogleg is no longer in a "V shape". In fact, a really big hitter 300+ yds could in theory hit a driver with a bit of a draw onto the green now. This winter I believe we will take out several of the trees in the dogleg and add a pot bunker there. This will improve the hole in that it will become less one dimensional and more playable for players of all abilities. Right now older players or higher hcp'ers that aren't long can't make it to the dogleg so don't get to see the green on the second shot at all, even if they hit there best drive. That leaves them with a small chip to get to the corner.

My personal opinion of this hole is that all the trees should be removed as they are hiding this wonderful natural undulated links land. This hole should become a great short par 4 and two rows of pot bunkers should be placed to dictate options and make good players really think from the tee. Ie..mid iron to the corner, 3 wood inbetween the bunkers or driver and going for the green with all inherent risks. The green would need reshaping to make it a bit more difficult and undulated.

That's just a pipe dream for now but maybe some day, I'm a fan of short par 4's and believe we could use one more that's very traditional links and tempts you to go for it.

Thanks for your candid reply.

[David Davis]

BTW pronunciation is more like this:

Nord vike sa

The o being a hard o like in boat and the i being a hard i like in bike. W sounds like a V.

Therefore:

oo = oa
w = v
ij = I

Confused yet?