[Joey Chase]

Has anyone been there and played it?  It looks pretty spectacular, but is it just the setting?

[Tom_Doak]

I'll be interested to hear the results of this one.  I've spoken to two people who have been there so far, and got back diametrically opposed reports from the two parties.  One of them thought it was VERY good, the other thought it was pretty bad.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I walked the land before it was a golf course and have seen it during construction and open for play. I think its a pretty good course overall, it was an awesome site, the cliff basicaly slipped into the sea creating a 150 acre parcel of chaos. If I had a few drinks yes I could be critical, I probably think they stripped out too much of what was there.

[Tony Ristola]

Photos look nice. I heard they went through 14 shapers.

[Ulrich Mayring]

When I was in St Andrews a couple of years back, I met a guy from Bulgaria, who said he is working for a new resort in his country and they sent him here to get educated about how to do it right. I think Thracian Cliffs is the only golf resort in Bulgaria that opened in recent years, so he might well have been from there.

I have heard glowing reports, no nay-sayers yet.

Ulrich

[Adrian_Stiff]

When I was in St Andrews a couple of years back, I met a guy from Bulgaria, who said he is working for a new resort in his country and they sent him here to get educated about how to do it right. I think Thracian Cliffs is the only golf resort in Bulgaria that opened in recent years, so he might well have been from there.

I have heard glowing reports, no nay-sayers yet.

Ulrich

There is another golf course that virtually touches TC, called Blacksearama and another about 5 miles away called Lighthouse. As far as I know those are the only ones on the coast and those all opened within the last few years. A few inland ones have opened and plenty were planned but the economy is dire so it will be quite some time before the real estate kicks off again. I looked at 48 potential sites there the land is quite British.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Here is a slideshow that shows the course pretty well. The European Tour will be there shortly for their Volvo Matchplay Championship.

It looks like a great course, although I personally would have liked the bunkering style to be more natural and rougher. That would have fit the site much better. However, it should be enough of an eye-opener for those doubting that any great courses ever came out of Gary Player's design practice.

https://plus.google.com/115399521976886511877/posts/b3Ruwsiyuba

Ulrich

[Craig Sweet]

Having not played it I guess the nice thing to say is it looks "interesting".

[Mark Pearce]

Given that the land was created by one landslip, you have to wonder how stable it is in the long term.

[Eric Strulowitz]

I'll be interested to hear the results of this one.  I've spoken to two people who have been there so far, and got back diametrically opposed reports from the two parties.  One of them thought it was VERY good, the other thought it was pretty bad.

Goodness, what a beautiful course and setting.

That is what I love most about GCA, finding out about places like this.  Always looking to play in locations off the beaten track.  Love hidden gems.

Thanks for sharing!

[RJ_Daley]

Is this area of what appears to be soft limestone or chalk cliffs actually suitable for siting holes at the bottom of the land slips?  I wonder if these Bulgarians ever heard of Sutton Bay? 

It just occurs to me that there are golfers with a certain mentality that draws them to desire to 'play close to the edges' in a certain tempting danger sense.  Not to say that the danger element is necessarily a challenge to your personal safety so much as dangerous shots that tempt all or nothing shots where an errant ball can fly off into an abyss and evoke a sense of danger to you personally.  Some people ooh and ah at the holes sited on the edge of cliffs with the skyline horizon looks.  But, does it evoke a thrill factor beyond good golf design, or is that just another form of golf design where fear-thrill is a valid element of playability? 

From the photos, I have to say that the photographic look of that par 3 off the cliff with a traversing cart path from tee to green reminds me of the course in Mesquite NV (Wolf Creek?) where a few carts actually lost traction and reprortedly one person was killed in a cart out of control accident. 

The other thing that strikes me about the photographic presentations is that the entire golf development gives off a sense of a "nuveau riche" and exaggerated style of a burgeioning class of new wealth in a country where that segment of population is 'trying too hard' to become a warped idea of what wealthy resort golf is in other more developed and traditional golfing cultures.  I wonder how a golfing culture will develop in this area with what may be a new and slightly skewed set of assumptions.  Might we see golf attire and behavior to warp into something somewhat strange or bizarre like golf attire and comportment that would come off as acted out in the old Saturday Night Live sketchs of AKroyd and Martin - "Two Wild and Crazy Guys"? 

But, I digress.....

[JMEvensky]

RJ,I'm pretty sure there aren't enough nouveau riche in Bulgaria to fill a weekend tee sheet.This was built by/for foreign tourists.

[RJ_Daley]

JM, I see that the population is somewhere in the 7-8million for Bulgaria.  I was not thinking solely of Bulgarian national newly acquired wealth class taking up golf, necessarily.  I meant all of that eastern Europe/Balkins and Russian crowd.  Not unlike the rising oligarchs of China, it just seems to me that they are on their own trajectory and developing a sort of kitsch culture where the style is modeled on faux impressions of the superficial aspects and trappings of wealth, leading to comical interpretations. 

With these Tracian Cliffs photos, I'm left with the notion that everything is exaggerated.

[David Lott]

Beautiful place but the housing doesn't fit the land. Too bad. That part will only get worse.

[Howard Riefs]

Look forward to seeing this course on TV during this week's Volvo World MP event. 

Early "interesting" feedback from the pros.  The fact that they're glad it's not a stoke play event is somewhat disconcerting.

from Geoff Ogilvy:
“It’s an interesting course,” Geoff Ogilvy said. “It’s a stunning bit of land. I don’t know if I’ve been in a place as impressive – a bit like Torrey Pines. ... There’s some extreme type golf holes out there. It’s perfect for match play. I’m glad we’re not adding them (strokes) all up. I think there could be a few train-wreck holes out there. ... There will be a lot of birdies and quite a lot of others. So I think that’s probably good for match play.”

from Graham McDowell:
“It would be a tough stroke play golf course, no doubt about it,” McDowell said. “There would be golf balls flying everywhere, literally. ...It’s going to be a good match-play course. There’s going to be concessions in the middle of the fairway here, there and everywhere.”

http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/15/volvo-match-play-thracian-cliffs-preview/

[Matthew Essig]

I have never seen it in person, have only seen a few pictures and am using google earth, so when I say that I wish the first few holes were inland and the finishing holes were on the ocean in order to have holes with the ocean on both sides, it may not be possible. I feel the course would be a lot better, and I'm not saying that because it would be similar to the Pebble routing..... Happy coincidence!

[Scott Warren]

Matthew,

Thanks to the gift of Doug Ralston's "racism" post in the Tiger thread, that qualifies as only the second craziest thing posted on GCA today. Any other day, you'd have won gold!

I'm surprised "an aspiring golf course architect" would make such a comment about the routing of a golf course he has only seen in a few pics and on Google.

[Tom_Doak]

Plus, Bulgaria is a long way from any ocean.

[George Pazin]

http://www.thraciancliffs.com/

I guess that's the Black Sea it borders?

Judging by the website pics, I'm thinking at least one of the posters on here has been there...

I liked the look of it on golf channel this morning, will try to watch more later, maybe see if I can do some screen caps.

[Adam Lawrence]

http://www.thraciancliffs.com/

I guess that's the Black Sea it borders?

Judging by the website pics, I'm thinking at least one of the posters on here has been there...

I liked the look of it on golf channel this morning, will try to watch more later, maybe see if I can do some screen caps.

Well, you're right George - Adrian said in this very thread he'd been!

[George Pazin]

http://www.thraciancliffs.com/

I guess that's the Black Sea it borders?

Judging by the website pics, I'm thinking at least one of the posters on here has been there...

I liked the look of it on golf channel this morning, will try to watch more later, maybe see if I can do some screen caps.

Well, you're right George - Adrian said in this very thread he'd been!

While you are correct, it wasn't Adrian I was thinking of. I should have said "at least one OTHER poster on this site..."

[Scott Weersing]

I think this course just needs a waterfall or two and then Donald could add it his portfolio.

It reminds me of Trump National Los Angeles, http://www.trumpnationallosangeles.com/

A course that is fun to play only once.

[Matthew Essig]

Matthew,

Thanks to the gift of Doug Ralston's "racism" post in the Tiger thread, that qualifies as only the second craziest thing posted on GCA today. Any other day, you'd have won gold!

I'm surprised "an aspiring golf course architect" would make such a comment about the routing of a golf course he has only seen in a few pics and on Google.

They are already calling the course "the Pebble Beach of Europe" ......

After seeing today's footage, I believe Gary could have built the western portion of the property flipped to allow for some ocean holes with the ocean on the left.

I would like to know why you call my post CRAZY. Is it because I find the 8 holes in a row with the ocean on the same side poor? Or that I am  using pictures, today's footage, and google earth to form an analysis of the property?

[Scott Warren]

Has anyone other than Gary Player and maybe some gormless TV announcers annointed it "the Pebble Beach of Europe"? Thracian Cliffs is not the first Player course that GP has called "the Pebble Beach of...". It's kinda his thing.

When I said your post was crazy, you'd not yet watched Rd.1 on TV, so your suggestion that the course was poorly routed was based on "a few pictures" and a Google Maps view.

As an aspiring golf course architect, do you consider that the occupation is so simple and straightforward that you can do a better job from looking at "a few pictures" than an actual (not aspiring) architect and his/her colleagues can do from months, perhaps years, labouring over topos and walking the site, not to mention working within the parameters improsed by local authorities?

And as Tom and George noted - that isn't an ocean, it's the Black Sea.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Matthew,

Thanks to the gift of Doug Ralston's "racism" post in the Tiger thread, that qualifies as only the second craziest thing posted on GCA today. Any other day, you'd have won gold!

I'm surprised "an aspiring golf course architect" would make such a comment about the routing of a golf course he has only seen in a few pics and on Google.

They are already calling the course "the Pebble Beach of Europe" ......

After seeing today's footage, I believe Gary could have built the western portion of the property flipped to allow for some ocean holes with the ocean on the left.

I would like to know why you call my post CRAZY. Is it because I find the 8 holes in a row with the ocean on the same side poor? Or that I am  using pictures, today's footage, and google earth to form an analysis of the property?

I am pretty sure 100 out of 100 golf course architects would have had the same basis of a routing with the 'ocean' on the right. You cant really reverse it because the holes run generally downhill with the sea on the right, so the sea views are looking at you whilst the other way they are more in the back of your head and the other way they tend to run uphill and quite severe in some places. This is a parcel of land that you absolutely cant route from google earth, the holes need to be discovered by walking, I did not ever get to the stage of doing a routing myself but I am pretty sure I would have ended up with the sort of course that had  perhaps 8 holes under 300 yards and I would have left much more natural, there were a few great features that got destroyed to make more 450 yarders and the 7200 yard quest, I also think its probably only 6000 yards from the regulariish tees.  You need a cart to play it as it has very long walks to tees and some real climbs. The Black sea is at the point iabout an hour by plane to cross so its quite easy to mistake it for ocean. I thought the hole they are playing as 2 was the 18th, perhaps I assumed wrong. Overall with 95% of golfers this course will be a HUGE HIT and our members are already saying WOW. I actually tried to buy this land in 2004 but it was in the process of being sold for the same reason I had. The land is stable as the 'landslip' was a few million years ago.

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