News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
I had the good fortune to experience Tavistock CC the other day with fellow GCAer Jason Walker.  I had played the back nine in late 2010, and on this sunny and pretty steamy afternoon was able to take in the entire course.  If you are an architecture junkie needing a fix, TCC will do the job, and then some.   ;D

The early history of the course is quite fascinating, with what Jim Finegan wrote available at Gapgolf.org being quite concise:

The formation of the Tavistock Country Club was atypical.

By 1920, Haddon Country Club, which had been founded at about the turn of the century, was struggling. Despite the fact that most people worked six days a week then, the New Jersey "Blue Laws" forbade playing sports on Sunday unless it was approved by local option. In Quaker oriented Haddonfield the state law was strictly enforced. Two other circumstances further compounded the problem for the club. First of all, the lease on the club ground— for which the club paid only $700 a year—had just two more years to run, and the owner now put a sale price of $75,000 on the property. At that time Haddon Country Club had 140 members, each of whom was paying annual dues of $25. Additionally complicating the situation was the Volstead Act—Prohibition meant no bar revenue.

Frank B. Middleton, president of the club and a senior executive of the Camden-based Victor Talking Machine Company (it would become RCA Victor), came to the rescue. He quietly purchased 180 acres of farmland in Centre Township, bordering on Haddonfield, then sold the tract to 28 of his Haddon Country Club friends for $22,000, accepting promissory notes for the entire amount.

The next step was to find a way to circumvent the Sunday "Blue Laws." Senator Joseph Wallworth, a delegate to the state legislature from Camden County, was easily enlisted in the cause: he was already a member of the new club, which was incorporated on December 14, 1920. Wallworth introduced a bill that would create the autonomous borough of Tavistock on the 180-acre parcel of land. The wording did not disclose the bill’s purpose. Catching the House unaware, the bill passed unanimously despite the fact that two of the legislators were clergymen. What should be noted is that the Speaker of the House at the time, T. Harry Rowland, had, like Wallworth, already signed up as a member of the new Tavistock Country Club.

Predictably, a furor arose, with preachers vehemently denouncing the scheme from their pulpits, but the new Tavistock Borough prevailed, seceding from Centre Township and electing Frank Middleton its first mayor on March 21, 1921. Six councilmen, a tax collector, and an assessor, all running unopposed, were also elected. There were 19 votes counted, 10 from occupants of the farm houses in the new borough, the other nine courtesy of club members who, stretching the truth, gave Tavistock as their residence. The new borough contracted with Haddonfield to provide police and fire protection, sewer and water services.

So confident were Frank Middleton and his founding friends—the other four names appearing on the country club’s certificate of incorporation are David Baird, Jr., William M. Nash, George H. Hall, and J. Edward Fagen— in their ability to create a true golfing haven that even before they got the law on their side they had hired Alexander Findlay to lay out 18 holes.


In the late 1950's Tavistock lost some land due to I-295 and part of the course was changed by Robert Trent Jones.  But there is still more Findlay left than what Jones did.

Here is the current routing of the course from a 2011 Google Earth aerial:

(all figures and pictures are 'clickable' to give a much larger size)



You can see I-295 in the bottom right corner.  Changes to the course were in this area.  Using old aerials, I modified my figure above to indicate the approximate original routing:



Tavistock tips out at 6823 (73.4/139), so it is no slouch if you wish to play the black tees.  We played the combo black/gold tees, at 6589 (72.3/133).  It was nice and firm this day so even an old guy like me could handle the distance.   ;)

#1.  Par 4 (355 yards).

Tee view:



Pretty generous fairway width at TCC, this being typical:



A good drive leaves this approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green (some greens are fairly subtle and photos really flatten them, like this one):



There aren't many homes along the course, but this one is spectacular!



#2.  Par 5 (552 yards).

You can see the tip of the flag in the distance (and the 3rd green as well):



Good drives will leave a blind second shot in, although real big hitters can carry this rise (about 285 from the tips):



If you carry this rise, you'll have a go in two with this view:



Approach shot view (where you can see the 3rd green in the distance, not possible until some recent tree removal):



From just over the green:



#3.  Par 4 (404 yards).

Tee view:



Approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



After that nice start, I'll post three more holes tomorrow.  :)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 02:56:32 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 10:36:05 PM »
Joe-
Glad you enjoyed yourself.  Look forward to seeing the rest of the photo tour.

A couple things of note.  First, fellow GCA poster JSlonis is our current Greens Chair, so I'm sure he'll be happy to answer any and all questions related to the current state of our golf course.  :)  Second, Jim Nagle will hopefully chime in.  He was the primary architect responsible for our restoration in 2006 and is as familiar with our golf course as anyone out there.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 10:37:17 PM »
What a great look from 3 tee.  The tree removal looks like its progressing nicely!  The wide fairways look like they present some options to get at some of the corners of the greens also.

Looking forward to seeing more!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 11:10:08 PM »
Joe,

Thanks for the photos. Nice job.

Look forward to the discussion.

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 09:39:17 AM »
Joe,

Jason was an extremely benevolent host when a couple of friends and I played there with him last May. Thanks again Jason. I wish golf days were always like the day Jim, Mark and I spent with Jason.

Brad

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 09:55:19 AM »
Looks great, thanks for posting. Would love to see some before and after pictures of the restoration work if available.
H.P.S.

JNagle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 12:26:48 PM »
Joe -

Wonderful posting on a great golf course.  When time permits, I will add more thoughts.  As for the 1st three holes

Below is an image of the 1st hole during construction



The second hole provided an opportunity to add some strategy off of the tee with the bunker cut into the rise in the right fairway.  Mounds were added short left of the green as a challenge for someone who may have missed the fairway on their tee show.  The greenside bunkers on holes 1,2 and 3 were restored according to the photos.

The unfortunate aspect of the photos posted is that they do not reveal the genius of the greens (not so much #1) because of the high angle of the sun and therefore washing out of the contours.  I truly believe, it is the Findlay greens which make Tavistock a worthy study and great course.

You briefly discussed the routing changes due to the construction of 295.  The photo below is of the original 8th green which was positioned a little to the right where you have indicated.  This photo was used during the renovation of the current 13th green a creation added with the 295 construction.  What I like about it, is the combination of flashed (rear left) and grass-faced.  Because the green NLE, we wanted to at least pay homage to the original design within the renovated 13th.



This image is from 1926 showing a close-up of the 2nd greensite and surrounds.



This image captures those greens which were lost to 295.  The left green was a par 5 called "Crossing".  The holes crossed the channels at multiple points and played into the rough right of the current 5th hole.  The par 3 hole teed off in the woods and played to the right of the existing pond to a plateau within the current 6th fairway.  The green in the center played from where the current 5th tee is to the current 6th green.  The current 6th hole plays to this green in a different direction.  The bunker seen in the lower right was part of a short uphill par 4 that when changed by Tillie (added a dogleg) in 1935 he referred to it as "one of the finest two shot holes to be found anywhere".



Included are two images of the 1st and 2nd holes prior to reconstruction.



It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »
Here's Tavistock in 1951 when I-295 was being built and what seems to be the original configuration/routing....


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 02:46:02 PM »
Wonderful stuff Jim and Dean. 

If the service of my car ever finishes today, I'll update the thread with holes 4-6.   ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

JNagle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 03:16:17 PM »
In preparation of Joe's posting holes 4 - 6.  Here are a couple of before images

Hole 4 - was rebuilt a couple of times by the Club prior to 2005.  We had to rebuild it again and fashion it after the rest of the course.  We went for a green with subtle contours (compared to the rest of the course) but with a false front, varying side slopes and portions of the green (rear) bisected by a rear ridge.  The green, to date, performs well.  However, as with any designer, I think we would have been a little more abrupt with the internal features.  It works and the members like it.  The bunker on the right was to provide ball containment and mimic what we have seen from Findlay on other courses with a large, deep greenside bunker on a par 3.  The bunker behind the green was inspired from his work on the original 5th, 8th, 15th and 18th greens.  Findlay seemed to like placing large meandering bunkers behind greens.

Here is the before



Here is #5 before -



The hole was a dogleg right with woods right and a stream crossing right in the heart of the landing area.  The green was a Jones Sr. design and is a good green.  Little was done to truly change the hole other than lengthen and accentuate an existing knob left side of the green.

Hole 6 before -



The hole is a straight away par 4 which was greatly shortened with a "speed slot" leaving a short iron into the green.  The hole was lengthened which left players (playing the proper tee) the possibility of staying on the downslope of the slot, on top or, rarely, getting to the bottom.  The bunker left side of the green was enlarged and deepened.  We added an island which was in keeping with Findlay as seen in photos of his other courses.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:24:25 PM by JNagle »
It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 03:19:27 PM »
Great old pictures guys! 

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2012, 07:29:35 PM »
It's SOOOOO good to see a Findlay course that isn't tree-choked.  Thanks!

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2012, 09:02:10 PM »
It's SOOOOO good to see a Findlay course that isn't tree-choked.  Thanks!

Dan,

It had gotten pretty claustrophobic before we began the tree clearing and restoration process 6 yrs ago. If I have my way, you'll see a lot less trees over the next few yrs as well.  We've done some great work so far, but our job isn't finished.

The results so far have been pretty dramatic and if my vision comes together, it should look spectacular in the near future. I swear I'm starting to see trees shudder when I walk by. I think they know the end is near.  ;)

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 09:52:55 PM »
Nice work Jamie!  Keep those trees scared!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2012, 10:08:54 PM »
It's SOOOOO good to see a Findlay course that isn't tree-choked.  Thanks!

Dan,

It had gotten pretty claustrophobic before we began the tree clearing and restoration process 6 yrs ago. If I have my way, you'll see a lot less trees over the next few yrs as well.  We've done some great work so far, but our job isn't finished.

The results so far have been pretty dramatic and if my vision comes together, it should look spectacular in the near future. I swear I'm starting to see trees shudder when I walk by. I think they know the end is near.  ;)

Jamie & Joe,

It would be great if you could post the link to Historicaerials.com and Tavistock so that we could see the impact of I-295.

How is Jimmy Groeling, let's make a game with him.
Hard to believe we've been friends for 62 years.


Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 10:16:38 PM »
Good photos so far.  My experience here is limited to working events with GAP on the second nine (for whatever reason), so it's good to see the first nine holes and the rest of the golf course outside of 10 tee, 14 tee.    

Jamie and/or Jason, if I could ask one general question, why does #7 have two greens, and what is the function for daily play?

If I could ask a second question, how do you balance the needs of the (likely) spectrum of handicaps of the membership with the architecture?  
There don't seem to be a lot of forced carries, admittedly, except for a couple on the second nine (examples 13, 15 and 16)?  

In other words, Tavistock is well known for its caliber of player.  How do you provide the daily test for the +5 as well as the 25 handicap?  
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:19:28 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 11:47:41 PM »
Good photos so far.  My experience here is limited to working events with GAP on the second nine (for whatever reason), so it's good to see the first nine holes and the rest of the golf course outside of 10 tee, 14 tee.    

Jamie and/or Jason, if I could ask one general question, why does #7 have two greens, and what is the function for daily play?

If I could ask a second question, how do you balance the needs of the (likely) spectrum of handicaps of the membership with the architecture?  
There don't seem to be a lot of forced carries, admittedly, except for a couple on the second nine (examples 13, 15 and 16)?  

In other words, Tavistock is well known for its caliber of player.  How do you provide the daily test for the +5 as well as the 25 handicap?  

Doug,
I'll take a stab after a long but awesome day of golf.  :)

As to Number 7--I look forward to Joe's pictures because it's actually the most-discussed hole on the golf course, but not because of the two greens!  I'll wait until it's up before adding anything additional.   That said, the left green is the primary green.  However, it sits on what is probably the lowest point on the property and on the worst soil.  Over the years it was prone to flooding and washouts, so in the mid-1990's the second green was built.  I'd say it gets used 1 day a week, or as-needed.

As to your other questions, one thing our Green Committee is acutely aware of is what Tavistock is.......a really fun, every day members course.  We're not going to host a major championship next week, so let's focus our efforts on what we can do to make the course more fun and enjoyable for everyday play. 

The challenge of our golf course is the greensites and greens, of which I personally think are some of the most fun and unique in the GAP area.   Being on the correct side of the fairway is key when the greens are running, but what you won't find are too many  "postcard" tee shots. Most of our fairways are flat and reasonably straight away.  It's a course with "width" off the tee, but the challenge increases the closer you get to the hole.

 I believe one of the reasons there are so many good players at Tavistock is because of the difficulty--and and my opinion "fun factor"-- of the greens and surrounds.  You can't fake your way around the greens to post a good score.  But that said, it's those same greens that provide the fun and playability for the entire membership.


Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 11:52:47 PM »
.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 09:54:09 PM by Jason Walker »

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2012, 12:11:07 AM »
It's SOOOOO good to see a Findlay course that isn't tree-choked.  Thanks!

Dan,

It had gotten pretty claustrophobic before we began the tree clearing and restoration process 6 yrs ago. If I have my way, you'll see a lot less trees over the next few yrs as well.  We've done some great work so far, but our job isn't finished.

The results so far have been pretty dramatic and if my vision comes together, it should look spectacular in the near future. I swear I'm starting to see trees shudder when I walk by. I think they know the end is near.  ;)

Jamie & Joe,

It would be great if you could post the link to Historicaerials.com and Tavistock so that we could see the impact of I-295.

How is Jimmy Groeling, let's make a game with him.
Hard to believe we've been friends for 62 years.


Pat--
Jimmy Groeling lives across the street from me!  Come on down south and Jamie and I will take you two on!  :)  You're long overdue for a visit down here.


Tom ORourke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2012, 09:41:37 AM »
I had played Tavistock a number of times in the late 70s and early 80s, and caddied there one summer. I always thought it was a good course, more "okay" than "wow", but good. I played it again in a GAP match after the changes and it had gotten so much better that it was difficult to compare it to the old version. The changes to the greens alone would have been enough to raise the level of the course, but the tree work and overall changes were outstanding. I think it leapfrogged a number of area courses including Riverton, which I always thought to be the better course. Great work.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2012, 09:45:47 AM »
Tom (and Jamie),

What work was done to the greens?  Expanded to bring back pins?

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2012, 09:55:45 AM »
You know, that Findlay guy may have actually been a decent architect.  You seldom really get to see his work because it's been ruined by trees.  I really hope Tavistock can be a role model for other clubs and courses.

JNagle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2012, 10:36:17 AM »
In helping to set up the future discussions on the course once additional photos are posted, I thought it may be helpful to post some aerial images before the work and after.

The first image is from August, 2005.  At this point the club has started with tree removal and the project was due to be presented to the membership within a few months.  The project was also going out to bid prior to the year end 2005.



The next image is from August, 2006.  The project at this point has been underway for just a few weeks.  In fact the image is from August 12th and we were due on site on the 15th to work on the 4th and 16th greens.  The greens and fairways have been "smoked" with Methyl Bromide at this point and Tom Grimac (Supt) and his staff had the task of managing a regrassing project and restoration project and temps that did hit the 100's.



This image is from October 2011.  We were back at the Club renovating (lifting and expanding) the 18th green which had become unplayable in the 4 years since the renovation.  Originally, we all thought we could get away with an expansion at the rear of the 18th, but it did not work. 

It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (New Jersey; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2012, 11:05:06 AM »
Ok, back to the tour!

#4.  Par 3 (159 yards).

From the tee:



From short of the green:



From long and right of the green:



From long and left of the green, where with recent tree clearing you can make out the previous two holes in the distance:



#5.  Par 5 (552 yards black; 512 yards gold).

This is the first of the RTJ holes.  From the Google aerial above you can see there are two water hazards to be navigated.  From the tips the first isn't really reachable, but from the next tee up it can be easily to the right.  

I would think this hole could be a card wrecker for the average golfer b/c of the two hazards.  I would probably recommend just playing a 3w off the tee, cross the first hazard and stay short of the hazard with say an 8 iron, then cross the 2nd hazard to the green with another short iron.

Tee view (if I could Photoshop effectively I would  ;)  ):



A really good tee shot close the first creek can leave this view in:



Approach shot view:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



#6.  Par 4 (428 yards black, 382 gold).

This is the No 1 stroke hole at TCC and typically plays into the prevailing wind.  The creek from the last hole is in play here but not reachable for most from the back tee.

Tee view:



Approach shot view to a green to my eyes is Redan inspired:



From just short of the green:



From just over the green:



Three more on Friday!  
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 11:03:27 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tavistock CC (NJ; Alex Findlay): a photo exploration (holes 1-6 up)
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2012, 12:16:56 PM »
Hole 6 looks really cool.  I like how a gentle fade is the ideal tee shot and a draw is required into the redan-ish green.  Great stuff!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back