[Patrick_Mucci]

on the ocean ?

I'm not enamored with Spanish Bay, but I know that others like it.

What about bad courses on bays or lakes, are there any bad one's ?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Of course there are - what does one have to do with the other?  For example many American resort courses in FL or HI.

[Alex Lagowitz]

I'm not too pleased with Sandpiper.  A great property that was not best used.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Of course there are - what does one have to do with the other?  For example many American resort courses in FL or HI.
Kyle,

Could you name the bad courses on the water in FL ?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Of course there are - what does one have to do with the other?  For example many American resort courses in FL or HI.
Kyle,

Could you name the bad courses on the water in FL ?

This one looks like a waste of time...

http://www.dunesgolfsanibel.com/golf/

[mike_beene]

The one in Rockland or Rockport Maine at Samoset is a wasted opportunity with some very weird holes both on and off the water.Very disjointed and forgetful

[Jim Tang]

I'm not a fan of Bay Harbor up in Michigan.

[Jason Thurman]

Are any of those courses genuinely bad? Or are they just missed opportunities or poor designs given the property?

I can think of plenty of poor designs on good properties, but the resulting course is generally still better than average overall simply due to the boost it gets from a good location.

Bay Harbor, for instance, may be a missed opportunity to create a Top 30 course, but isn't it still a borderline Top 100 Modern?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, I do not think there is a bad golf course anywhere. One can find good in all golf courses. I mean your boy Rees tries hard to do really bad ones. But there are a few moments worthy of the game even on his courses.

[Sam Morrow]

There are lots of bad courses on bays and lakes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

There are lots of bad courses on bays and lakes.

Sam, 

Could you identify them and tell us if you've played them ?

Kyle,

Have you played Sanibel ?

[Anthony Butler]

on the ocean...?

There are many. Including 4 within about 8 miles of each other in Sydney... Bondi, Randwick, the Coast and St. Michaels. Considering NSW, right next door to St. Michaels, is currently ranked in the top 40 in the world indicates the potential that is wasted there.

Bondi is a lost cause, but the Coast and Randwick could be combined and re-made into a half decent course and St., Michaels needs an Ogilvy/Clayton makeover in the worst way.

[Scott Stearns]

Bodega Harbo(u)r

[Sam Morrow]

There are lots of bad courses on bays and lakes.

Sam, 

Could you identify them and tell us if you've played them ?

Kyle,

Have you played Sanibel ?

Bad golf courses I've played on bays, Northshore Country Club in Portland, Texas is the first that comes to mind. It's a Von Hagge/Devlin on Corpus Christi Bay, the holes on the bay are not very good, including a par 5 that almost played like 3 islands with your tee shot, 2nd, and green.

As for bad courses I've played on lakes do you really want me to go through each one and give you a description?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I generally dislike this question.  I think it depends on what a golf course aspires to be.  My Dad only played golf because he loved me.  He rarely played without me. When he did he went to one of the many "Mom and Pop" courses that dot the MI landscape.  One was Oyler GC.  On Fridays he could play 9 holes for $5.  The course is laid out in an old orchard and some of the holes are so narrow carrying a golf bag was dangerous because of the trees it might hit.  The greens were tiny and seldom fit the shot required.  Some guy just laid it out on his farm.  My Dad loved the place.  The owners were nice and generous.  They gave a break to junior golfers and seniors could walk it easily because it was flat.   As a course it is dreadful.  As a place of refuge it is great.

On the other hand I played the Nicklaus course at Hualalai on the Big Island last summer.  It aspires to be a tournament course for the Champions Tour.  After 9 holes all I wanted to do was leave the course.  If I weren't playing with my wife, I'd have gone to the beach.  Nicklaus put in tees and nondescript greens, left some lava that must be avoided and called it strategy.  It is a dreadful excuse for a course. 
Which course is worse?  I'll leave it up to you.

[Adam Clayman]

Just because water tugs at your primordial heart strings, does not make the proximity to it, a great golf course.

Turn it around and ask if the great courses on the water are that great because of the architecture, or because people are so easily manipulated into feeling good about it, because it's on the water. 

[Anthony Butler]

The one in Rockland or Rockport Maine at Samoset is a wasted opportunity with some very weird holes both on and off the water.Very disjointed and forgetful

Not too mention the kamikaze attacks on every piece of exposed skin when you get back in the woods... took two weeks for my ankles to return to normal shape.

[JMEvensky]

Take away the views and I have Old Head down as a very average golf course. I am a sucker for views and the experience but even those could not redeem Old Head in my eyes. Is it bad? Well, no - but it's the worst course on an ocean I have played.

Exactly my take.

I played it when it was pretty new(1999).It was the first course I played in Ireland and I kept thinking that there must be more to links golf than this.

[Mike_Clayton]

Anthony,
That coastline in Sydney is unquestionably the greatest waste of good land for golf in the world. It is staggering to think the land is so good and the golf is that bad.
It takes bad golf on the ocean to a new level.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Yes, at least one...

Half Moon Bay Golf Links – The Ocean Course, Arthur Hills (1997)

I am not a golf course architect and don't pretend to be one, but I would have to think that site had more potential than what we got.

[David Kelly]

.

[David Bartman]

Trump National in Palos Verdes is awful and right on the ocean.  Spanish Bay is pretty poor those ESA's really hinder the ability to recover even when you can see and could hit your golf ball.  

Sandpiper isn't a bad golf course, I think it a good golf course, it didn't however use the land to the best of its potential, so it certainly underachieved with the terrain that was there. 

[Scott Warren]

Mike C and Anthony B,

I have been going out to play The Coast with my dad a bit lately because it's cheap and is a pleasant walk, and every time I can't help but shake my head at what could be built on that land that comprises St Mick's, The Coast and Randwick.

The three courses measure a combined 300 acres. There is a pinch point between church and beach, which separates 10-17 at The Coast from the rest of the course -- that is a major impediment to a coherent routing, but with that as a border of two 18-hole courses you'd have about 110 acres on what's now Randwick and 11-17 of The Coast and about 190 acres on the parcel that houses the rest of The Coast and all of St Mick's.

The three courses have a combined 3.5km (two miles) of clifftop absolute seaside land, most of which already houses golf holes, so no impediments in that sense.

Given the location and terrain, it's hard to believe someone can't get two brilliant golf courses built in place of three fairly lamentable ones. Randwick's membership is extremely aged and I know times are somewhat difficult for the other two clubs. I wonder if the climate now doesn't make it a greater possibility than when Norman tried it some years back?

This is the site for those unfamiliar

[David_Elvins]

Great call RE: Randwick and the Coast.  Talk about underachieving. 

Still, I reckon I would enjoy playing The Coast every day over The Cut, which is IMO, a pretty awful course and waste of good land.

[Matt_Cohn]

This one looks like a waste of time...

http://www.dunesgolfsanibel.com/golf/

I've never seen so much water on a golf course map. Ermahgerd.

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