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Ulrich Mayring

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Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2012, 05:12:30 PM »
By the way this "news story" has also made it into the Golf Business Weekly newsletter from KPMG, which is where I read it. So apparently it has been sold a couple of times over.

The main problem (bigger than not sourcing it and never talking to Tom Doak) for me is that someone is making money off a service that Tom Doak provides to us for free. Everyone here contributes without getting paid, but this is especially noteworthy for professionals like Tom Doak, whose reputation in the industry could easily fetch them real money for their advice. But still he (and other professionals on this board) decides to contribute worthwile and relevant information for free. The last thing we need is for a member to copy it off the site and sell it.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 05:14:28 PM by Ulrich Mayring »
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Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2012, 05:32:16 PM »
Having read these four pages, it's clear that a great number of people read the article and got the impression that I had interviewed Tom. As I noted at the foot of Page 1 of this thread, I weighed up at the time whether an "announced on GCA.com..." was necessary and I didn't feel that it was -- I didn't feel I was sourcing another publication's work, rather an announcement/release.

Having slept on it, whoever noted the example of a reporter sourcing a Romney quote from WaPo made a great point -- whether actively or passively, Ran and Ben got Doak's comments re: the book exclusively "in their publication" and I should have noted that GCA.com was the source of the quotes by Tom Doak.

I was wrong to view the comments as a broad release rather than sourced material and I should have mentioned that they came from this website. I apologise to Ran and Ben for that.

Those who feel that it was a scum act to re-publish content from this audience in a broader forum, we are destined to disagree. Everything on this website is visible to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to look.

To Rich Goodale's analogy of Mark C running to the papers with something Prince Andrew said privately at an RCP club function, again I'd argue strongly that something posted on a website that is accessible to the public worldwide (perhaps not in China yet...) is the polar opposite of a private comment made in confidence and fairly misrepresents what has happened in this instance.

Again, in hindsight I was wrong to leave off the "told GCA.com" attribution and Ran and Ben have my sincere apology.

I'm sorry I have offended Tom by writing the article. It was not my intention, I merely wanted to spread the word that a popular and unique book was about to become more thorough and a lot more accessible.

A final note to those commenting on my profiting off something Tom Doak provided for free. That opens up a whole new can of worms about the media, but I'll nip it in the bud by saying that I don't get paid for the articles I write for GCA Magazine. I write them because they interest me and writing about golf is a bit of a sideline hobby to my day job, which never has seemed to come around to covering my passions, aside from brief opportunities like John Boehner bragging about his low round to Joe Biden or Obama leaving the scribes hanging in the car park at Andrews AFB recently...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 05:38:55 PM by Scott Warren »
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Jim Briggs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2012, 05:45:50 PM »
Scott,

After reading through comments on the four pages, do you now feel that forum member to forum member you should have given Tom a heads up? 
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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2012, 05:50:10 PM »
Nice post, Scott.

Sadly, we live in a time when people make a very good living selling pictures of Tom Cruise walking outside with his young daughter days after a divorce. If selling those "moments" for profit is permissible (both legally and, apparently, under whatever is left in the handbook of journalistic ethics), I have a hard time getting worked up about the proper sourcing of a website comment posted on a public message board. I think Tom has every right to be upset, and I probably would too if it happened to me (happily, no one stands to make any kind of profit quoting me ... or maybe not-so-happily ... got to think about that one).

I do think it would be nice if folks on this site agreed not to broadcast the things said here, whether it is arguments, announcements, or criticisms. If someone wants to do a Google search to dig for controversy, so be it. But it does feel weird to have someone from this site bring comments somewhere else for distribution to a larger audience. Not illegal, maybe not even unethical, bit it just feels kind of dirty.
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Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2012, 06:15:26 PM »
The last time I looked KPMG made a lot of money. And I can't believe they don't pay for the content they use in their newsletter. There is money involved here and I personally think it is every member's responsibility to see to it that our privileged position in this group is not being abused.

Ulrich
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Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2012, 06:24:17 PM »
I'm glad to see Scott's new comments and apology.

As I wrote earlier, for me it's just all about attributing where the quotes came from.


This is a public forum. Even though you have to sign up to post, anyone can view the posts here. There should be no expectation of confidence in such a forum. It surely would have been courteous for more communication to take place, but that's a forum courtesy issue, not anything to do with journalistic ethics or any journalistic standard.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2012, 06:28:51 PM »
Scott,

Thanks for chiming in.  Looks like this issue has been officially put to bed.  Ran can now delete this thread!  ;D
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Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2012, 06:48:32 PM »
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on July 18, 2012, 11:17:25 AM
Maybe that's the way they do in in Australia (Rupert Murdoch), but it's not the way it should be done anywhere.
An outrageous slur.  :P
Rupert Murdoch gave up his Australian citizen in the mid-80s to become an American!
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Mark_F

Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2012, 12:00:28 AM »
Quote from: Chris Kane on July 18, 2012, 06:48:32 PM
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on July 18, 2012, 11:17:25 AM
Maybe that's the way they do in in Australia (Rupert Murdoch), but it's not the way it should be done anywhere.
An outrageous slur.  :P
Rupert Murdoch gave up his Australian citizen in the mid-80s to become an American!

Indeed.  Murdoch has not been the dirty digger, but the dirty double vet for almost thirty years.
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Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2012, 05:53:46 AM »
I endorse Mark Chaplin's view of Scott.  He is a good bloke, excellent company and deserves credit for putting his hands up and accepting he made a mistake.  I'm sure he put this news out there for all the right reasons and has not received any remuneration for it.  I think this issue has clarified some of the unwritten protocols of this forum, but everyone has a responsibility to themselves to not put anything on here that they would not be happy to see repeated in the press.

I hope Scott and Tom D can maybe have a private word behind the curtains and put this to bed with a handshake.
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Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2012, 06:48:18 AM »
Quote from: Robin_Hiseman on July 19, 2012, 05:53:46 AM
I endorse Mark Chaplin's view of Scott.  He is a good bloke, excellent company and deserves credit for putting his hands up and accepting he made a mistake.  I'm sure he put this news out there for all the right reasons and has not received any remuneration for it.  I think this issue has clarified some of the unwritten protocols of this forum, but everyone has a responsibility to themselves to not put anything on here that they would not be happy to see repeated in the press.

I hope Scott and Tom D can maybe have a private word behind the curtains and put this to bed with a handshake.

Totally concur there Robin. Well said.

Matthew
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"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

JR Potts

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Re: New Confidential Guide
« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2012, 10:29:05 AM »
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