[Mike Hendren]

After enjoying the golf and fellowship at Dismal River (not to mention touching the robe of Tom Doak) I was a contented man, ready to return to Nashvegas with a refreshed spirit and fond memories.  However, I had booked a day of golf at Prairie Club so I pointed the rental ride toward Valentine.  Boy am I glad that I did.  For those not blessed to be a one percenter (or better yet know one) Prairie Club offers the genuine sandhills golf experience.  Coupled with the public Wildhorse down in Gothenburg the resort warrants a trip of its own, rather then  merely being a footnote round after Sand Hills, Dismal River or Ballyneal.

While I did not stay there, lunch was tasty, facilities impressive and the two caddies that led my partner and me around the Dunes course in 103 degree temps were professional and delightful.  After 36 holes I did not play Hanse's short course but no less than an authority than Sam Morrow gives it props and it would undoubtedly be a nice amenity for late evenings.

The courses do not suffer from a resort feel though the architecture offers more playability for the mid and higher handicapper than do the other sandhills courses.  In other words, they don't beat you up. Better players will likely score well in the absence of a stiff breeze. The firm and fast conditioning of both courses was spot on and the ground game was a viable option.  With the exception of the few holes on the Pines course that are forrested, fairway width is super-abundant, occasionally to the point that driving options seemed superfluous.  The greens on both courses are at times gigantic, providing great elasticity in the set up of individual holes.  I was pleasantly surprised by the dramatic green contouring - fun, fun, fun.  Generally plenty of pitching options around the greens.    I found both courses to be equally compelling.  

A few photographs:

The skyline approach to the first at the Dunes:



The short 4th at the Dunes - a example of the occasional over-bunkering:


From front left of 4th green looking back right - probably a 4-club difference in pin locations:


Plenty of options (too many?) on the Dunes' short two-shot 5th with a terrific green site:


The short down-hill 7th at the Dunes with a terrific vista as a backdrop:


Bunkering at the7th:



A good drive down the left side at the 8th gives the player a peek through the cut at the pin.  There is actually plenty of room in front of this green:


Pines photographs to follow.

Bogey

[John Kavanaugh]

I would go more often if I too could play both courses on the same day at a rate less than $200. Who's the 1%er now?  It is a great facility and a ton of fun that only suffers an identity crisis.

[Mike Hendren]

I would go more often if I too could play both courses on the same day at a rate less than $200. Who's the 1%er now?  It is a great facility and a ton of fun that only suffers an identity crisis.

Guilty. 

Your second sentence beautifully sums up Prairie Club. 

I hope I did not embarrass you in any way at Dismal River. It was great seeing you.

Bogey

[John Kavanaugh]

I would go more often if I too could play both courses on the same day at a rate less than $200. Who's the 1%er now?  It is a great facility and a ton of fun that only suffers an identity crisis.

Guilty. 

Your second sentence beautifully sums up Prairie Club. 

I hope I did not embarrass you in any way at Dismal River. It was great seeing you.

Bogey

After the incident at Bayside you behaved admirably. I do believe it is safe to say that at Ballyneal, Sand Hills and Dismal River, or any other fine club, you can not tell the members from the guests.  Members only areas in Nebraska...Really?

[Adam Clayman]

Bogey, Just to nit a pic, how does one over bunker, in a sand box?


This picture you took looks really cool to me. The scale of the whole place required this type of "excess". Plus, with the elasticity of that serpentine green,  how else could one present it?

[RJ_Daley]

From my point of view, I think we really should refer to the two courses at Prairie Club as the Lehman Dunes course and the Marsh Pines course, and even the Hanse par 3 Horse course.  If we can call DR the Nicklaus and Doak Course, and SHGC the C&C course, these two designers at Prairie Club have distinguished themselves to merit specific identity and attribution, when referring to them IMHO.  The accounting of how much time both Graham Marsh and Tom Lehman put into these designs is well documented.  It wasn't a hit and run, rolled architect drafting papers photo op.  And, their specific design ideas are both first rate, which produced world class golf, also IMHO.

[John Kavanaugh]

From my point of view, I think we really should refer to the two courses at Prairie Club as the Lehman Dunes course and the Marsh Pines course, and even the Hanse par 3 Horse course.  If we can call DR the Nicklaus and Doak Course, and SHGC the C&C course, these two designers at Prairie Club have distinguished themselves to merit specific identity and attribution, when referring to them IMHO.  The accounting of how much time both Graham Marsh and Tom Lehman put into these designs is well documented.  It wasn't a hit and run, rolled architect drafting papers photo op.  And, their specific design ideas are both first rate, which produced world class golf, also IMHO.

RJ,

I remember a day long ago when you passed on paying the day rate at the Bandon Resort. These courses are no less expensive.

[RJ_Daley]

Not sure what your point is there JK....? 

[John Kavanaugh]

Not sure what your point is there JK....? 

Have you played the Lehman and Marsh courses?  Given the cost would you make the drive up from Wild Horse?

[RJ_Daley]

Yes, and it was a great deal, which they are currently running if I'm not mistaken.  ~300 included overnight, and two unlimited days of golf.

I intend to do it again.  Rather than drive up from WH, I would drive out 90 to Valentine in one gulp, and drive into PC in the morning, get two rounds in, one each course, dine and sleep, golf again next day as much as possible, and then go to NP or G-burg that eve.  Either way, it is well worth the trip and that freight charge, if you ask me.  I don't think I'm up for the walk anymore, but if you play with a pal with one cart and walk as much as possible and ride to next tee hikes, etc., it is fine. 

[Jason Thurman]

I played both over two days a couple months ago. I happened to be there a week or so before in-season rates kicked in, and played three rounds for under $300.

Not sure how I would feel about paying the in-season rates, but at that price, the courses are an absolute bargain and well worth the drive from Gothenburg. Lehman's course in particular was truly outstanding. The fourth hole pictured is one of my favorite par 3s ever, and as a course, the elasticity and options and wind and width make it the most complex track I've ever seen, and a ton of fun too.

The Pines course is really just a good (not great) design in an amazing setting, but the setting is truly amazing. The fact that properties like that still exist is enough to make me think that perhaps someday a course will come along that can knock Trump International out of the #1 spot in the World rankings.

[Mac Plumart]

The fact that properties like that still exist is enough to make me think that perhaps someday a course will come along that can knock Trump International out of the #1 spot in the World rankings.

 

[RJ_Daley]

 

[John Kavanaugh]

I played The Prairie Club because the owners were generous enough to donate a nights stay and two days a golf for four to the Ben Cox raffle.  My friends and I would love to go back some day.

[Tom_Doak]

From my point of view, I think we really should refer to the two courses at Prairie Club as the Lehman Dunes course and the Marsh Pines course, and even the Hanse par 3 Horse course.  If we can call DR the Nicklaus and Doak Course, and SHGC the C&C course, these two designers at Prairie Club have distinguished themselves to merit specific identity and attribution, when referring to them IMHO.  The accounting of how much time both Graham Marsh and Tom Lehman put into these designs is well documented.  It wasn't a hit and run, rolled architect drafting papers photo op.  And, their specific design ideas are both first rate, which produced world class golf, also IMHO.

RJ:

Despite Chris' best efforts (and limited promotional hats), I have yet to approve of our course at Dismal River being named the Doak course.  I have never been a fan of naming courses after architects, and there was a reason I didn't name my company after myself, either.  I just don't like the implication that it's all about me, when there are ten guys out there every day sweating buckets to get the course right.

[RJ_Daley]

TD, your point is well appreciated.  Yet, one can look to any number of multiple course, high profile golf facilities and particularly the ones that have been developed in the last 30 or so years, all those course complexes seem to market the archie names to I.D. their separate courses.  I think it is all part and parcel of the modern marketing, branding philosophy.  So, while you may not wish to have your DR course designated as Doak course, it will always be next to the Nicklaus course, and if I'm not mistaken, there is no such philosophy in the Golden Bear's marketing model to not refer to one of his courses in a multiple course setting as anything but the "Nicklaus" or "Bear" course (and we all know what and who "Bear" means)

Of course you are correct and demonstrate high respect for your associates.  And, most all here on GCA.com know well that the name architect of a firm by whatever name the incorporation papers use, does not design or build these courses alone.  We here have something of a cult and follow the shaper associates like they were travelling rock stars.  But, the average consumer of golf at multiple course facilities are conditioned to refer to the course by the top architect's name, as some sort of belt notching sophisticate, while probably not actually being able to recognize a Pete Dye original or Pete's influence on many from his stable, from a Donald Duck. 

So, I think you are stuck with it TD.  Renaissance Golf courses are going to be referred to as the Doak courses, no matter how many associates did the heavy lifting on any particular one.  It is a tough role to have to assume, but you might as well get used to it. 

[Sam Morrow]

RJ,

 I see your point but I don't see the name Graham Marsh moving the needle, I'm not sure how many non hardcore fans know who he is. Of course how could Swampy design a course called The Pines?

[RJ_Daley]

Sam, I'm not sure how many courses Graham has done world wide.  Perhaps his name moves the needle a little more in NZ, Oz and UK.  I do know I like his design sensibilities and love many ideas he presented at Sutton Bay (despite the darn ground breaking-not his fault).  But, as I mentioned above, I also know from conversations w/Mark A at SB, that Swampy does his homework, gets dirty, and spends plenty of time on the site.

[Jason Thurman]

RJ,

I actually can't think of many multi-course complexes that name their courses by the architects. Bethpage, Pebble Beach, Bandon, Pinehurst, and now The Prairie Club all have multiple courses, none of which are named after their architect.

I get your point that the architects deserve credit, but I think it's just fine to call the Dunes and Pines courses by their names and not make it mandatory to include the architect's name when referring to them.

That being said, I've seen comments on the forum that mentioned being puzzled as to why a course developer would turn to Lehman or Marsh instead of some of the treehouse favorites. I find such comments ignorant and prejudiced, for lack of a better word. Lehman and Marsh did good work and I think they deserve a lot of credit for what they drew up in Valentine. I'd like to see us spend a little more time discussing lesser known or up-and-coming architects on the forum, or even "name" architects that we often skip over for one reason or another.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sam, I'm not sure how many courses Graham has done world wide.  Perhaps his name moves the needle a little more in NZ, Oz and UK.  I do know I like his design sensibilities and love many ideas he presented at Sutton Bay (despite the darn ground breaking-not his fault).  But, as I mentioned above, I also know from conversations w/Mark A at SB, that Swampy does his homework, gets dirty, and spends plenty of time on the site.

RJ,

Do you really believe that Marsh was around for the finish of some of the greens on the Pines?  I toured the course before it ever opened and it wags obvious they did not work. Somebody missed the boat out there and it 's a long way to sail from Oz.

[RJ_Daley]

JK, in what way do you assess that it was obvious that the greens did not work or do not work?  There is someone who contributes to GCA.com that could probably tell you how much time on site, or if GM was there for the finish work.  But, he'll have to I.D. himself if he cares to shed light on your comments.

I saw some of the land as well, pre-construction.  I don't agree that GM missed any boat on design along the canyon opportunities.  That being said with realization that all opportunities can't all be acted upon, because the routing has to fit.  Just like Sand Hills, many dozens of green sites were identified, but you can't use 'em all and make it come out to 18.  I dont' know GM personally.  But, I've heard nothing but positive comments on his dedication to the craft from those that do know.  Yes, there are some top playing pros that see plenty of the worlds great green complexes, and play the world's top holes and don't just jump into the GCA profession and start creating world class golf.  But, in GMs case, I think he does translate what he has experienced, and IMHO, presents some very interesting and exciting design ideas. 

[Sam Morrow]

Sam, I'm not sure how many courses Graham has done world wide.  Perhaps his name moves the needle a little more in NZ, Oz and UK.  I do know I like his design sensibilities and love many ideas he presented at Sutton Bay (despite the darn ground breaking-not his fault).  But, as I mentioned above, I also know from conversations w/Mark A at SB, that Swampy does his homework, gets dirty, and spends plenty of time on the site.

I believe he gets dirty and spends time on site, I liked Pines more than I liked Dunes I just question how much name recognition he has. He probably does have more in other parts of the world.

[Wayne Freeman]

I just returned from a fabulous trip to the sand hiills which included Ballyneal, Dismal, Sand Hills, Prairie, and Sutton Bay.  The highlight
 for me was spending 2 hours with Marsh touring the new course at SB.. I can assure you that he is very much hands on... he is out
 there every day preparing for the opening later this summer.  If you count this new course there, I believe it is only his 5th in the U.S. although I think he has done about 50 world wide.  It is impressive to hear his design ideas.  He is a great believer in making a
golf courses playable for golfers of all levels .. including women, but he wants better players to be faced with challenges i.e he is all a about angles and approaches into the holes for scoring.  The new course at SB is completely computerized, built on a flat piece of land, but I think it will be very highly regarded with lots of movement, variety, and a finishing hole which will be one of the most
beautiful in golf.... right along the cliff.

   I realy enjoyed Prairie.. I didn't envision something so high end... the accommodations, service , food were all first rate.  I think
they have an excellent business model to be successful and it is definitely worth the trip.  I thought the Pines course was very good and enjoyable to walk.  The Dunes course is fantastic even though I was a little disappointed that the routing made it almost
too difficult to walk.  Apparently Lehman was commissioned to do a very walkable course, but decided to just build the best holes.
 I really enjoyed it despite some very long green to next tee diistances.
I

[Jim Colton]

Honest question for the group: does the almost perfectly straight out n back routing work on the Dunes course? Obviously a lot of links courses have this feature, but it seems a little odd to me given the expansive land from which to choose from. I can only imagine from an enjoyable walk perspective, it could be quite a grind if you had to play the last 6-7 holes dead into the wind. Admittedly, I have only been there but haven't played the course (long story), but my frame of reference is trying to battle 17 & 18 at Ballyneal into a stiff north wind. If that march was multiplied by three, I'd probably view the course a lot differently.

I imagine they had a "constellation" of potential holes to work with and wonder if directional variety throughout the round was ever a consideration in the thought process. Hopefully someone close to the project can shed some light.

[Jason Thurman]

Jim, when I played the Dunes the wind was largely helping on the front and hurting on the back, and was quite strong. I found that it still worked for a few reasons.

For one, many of the holes are offset to the general line of the routing. This made 10 and 14 straight downwind, 11, 12, and 15 straight into the wind, and the other holes of the back nine varying degrees of crosswind.

The other factor that helps is the elasticity of the course coupled with its width. They have plenty of room to move tees up when conditions get more severe, and move them back on other holes where a strong wind is helping.

I also didn't find it too difficult of a walk at all. If you catch a ride to the first tee and have them leave a cart on the 18th green, it's really not bad. The terrain is obviously tough, but the hardest part is probably figuring out where the next tee is for a first-timer. I didn't find too many very long transitions on my visit but did regularly need to look around to figure out where to go next.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()