Like minds, golf life balance, lunatics and best moments

[David Davis]

With the Open a day away I'm sitting here near Amsterdam looking through GCA and trying to get to know the site as a newbie, it's raining outside and the wind is blowing, perfect Dutch golf weather. It seems that there are few topics that have not been covered which is interesting. In the last few years I've sat here thinking my passion and love for golf was bordering on unique and that few (at least in The Netherlands) could understand this. A feeling of mild isolation on occasion. Wondering if I'm the only guy with a putting green in his living room with high ceilings and furniture moved to the side as to not get in the way of my nightly thorough examination of my golf swing in the reflections from the windows that adorn the back of my house. My bag enjoying a near permanent place next to my sofa with-in arms reach so my clubs never have to worry about getting lonely. The coffee table is full of golf course architecture books and I'm thankful for the golf channel not to mention the fact that nearly all the big events in the US are shown here live between 9 pm and 1 am from Thursday - Sunday. Last year I managed just over 100 rounds (disappointingly), have an amazing coach and my hcp went up to 7 (yes up from 4.9) even though I thought I became much better. I blame it on having an extremely tough home course with rough issues and an incorrect slope/course rating and an average windforce of 5 or more ha ha...not on the fact I'm a hacker who should of kept with tennis and skiing.

With this picture painted I now have some questions to throw out at the group:

1. Is this abnormal behavior in your eyes?

2. Where do you draw the line with golf? Does your wife/girlfriend/partner accept it fully or is it some kind of secretive indulgance that has taught you to be a master of Alt/Tabbing GCA quickly away and back to spreadsheets or something else you should be doing? Or are you perhaps a believer in the seperation of golf and relationships, we must choose one or the other?

3. Those of you in successful long term relationships, please enlighten me as to relevant wisdom or advice on how you've managed to find the balance or has this been forced upon you?

4. I'm curious who would receive the reward (the proverbial Claret Jug) for being the most passionate golf (golf course architecture) enthusiast on the site? And why? What makes you/him that person? I'm sure the lifers here will know very well who this is or at least be able to come up with a great shortlist!

5. Lastly, I'm interested in your single most significant and memorable golfing experience as I'm sure there are many brilliant, fun, interesting and humorous stories. I'll start by sharing one of mine for those that are interested.

When Cypress calls.

Last year as luck would have it I received an opportunity to coincide a trip to California with my fiance's training for her new job in LA. Since she was celebrating her birthday during her trip I was extra enthusiastic to be in Cali during her two week stay. She loved the fact I was going to join in on the weekends, as she was to be super busy during the week. I started contacting some friends to set up golf games for the trip and as the weeks past my golf trip started to turn into a dream trip to Cali as I managed to get exciting invites to play several clubs and join friends at several others. At the last minute my fiance' changed her mind about me going and decided she'd rather go away together once she returned. Yet at this stage I had a near perfect lineup arranged including Pebble, Spyglass, Pasatiempo, MPCC, Olympic and a pending date at Cypress. I explained this to her and even though she was a great golfer herself she didn't understand and even insisted that I didn't go. I proceded to confirm my plane ticket, along with a surprise visit to LA during her birthday weekend, which I did not tell her about. Then I received confirmation of the invite for Cypress and as luck would have it a day after my return flight. €1200 later I had a new return ticket but then I was hit with her ultimatum, if you go we are done.

I'm cutting the story very short but you will all be happy and relieved to know that my Cypress experience was the single most amazing and spiritual golf experience of my life. One which I don't expect to ever equal or even need to for that matter. On top of that I can honestly say the course saved me from making a huge mistake which I was completely blinded by. My lesson, when Cypress calls, you do what you have to do to go. I'm grateful to Cypress and the golf Gods everyday and in retrospect it was one of the best decision I've ever made.

If you've already answered these question and don't care to repeat yourself please by all means just post links.

Cheers guys, David

[PCCraig]

Good Lord, you called off your engagement in order to play a golf course?

I know a guy who's marriage ended, in part, because he was too obsessed with golf (at home and traveling) and spending too much time with his golf buds.

As with most of the good things in life, everything can be enjoyed in moderation.

[Bill_McBride]

Most women think men have a problem with the "C" word - commitment.

David has proved he is fully commited!

[David Davis]

Well not exactly. I was given an ultimatum which had to do with pure control. This after I'd treated the lady as a princess for two years and trust me she always got her way. I was even accommodating her wishes by going to Cali, filling in my time when she was busy and being available when she was available. Ok, so I was able to combine it with golf. That wasn't the point. However, yes I agree that all things can have a balance and in my opinion there are a small handful of invites in golf that you might expect a partner to understand the significance of. In fact, that ultimatum was followed by another which really did end it. That one was to agree to leave the country (leaving my daughters behind essentially) to move abroad. A definite deal breaker.

[Sean_A]

DD

1. Not to put too fine a point on it, YES.

2. Luckily, golf doesn't get too much in the way of family.  If it did, 9 times out of 10 I would drop the golf and do the family thing. 

3. As noted above, I am lucky.  My wife is one in a million.

4. I don't know, but guys like Sheehy have to be in the running. If you are willing to stump up 1200 clams to alter a flight for a game of golf, maybe you as well.

5. Hopefully, my moment hasn't yet come. 

Ciao

[Brian Potash]

David,

Good post.

Ill answer the questions you put forth as best I can -

1.  Not abnormal behavior

2.  My wife loves playing golf, which has enabled me to get way with a lot and spend way too much money with her still being ok with it.  However, she frequently mentions (especially in the heat of an argument) that it is ridiculous that I log onto GCA 25 times per day.  I would rather log onto GCA 25x and Bloomberg 1x than vice-versa, and I am sure there are people with that problem.  So I can say for a fact you do not need to separate golf and relationships, but you may need to separate GCA and everything that goes with it and relationships.  Frankly, if my wife was into GCA I might start getting a bit worried.

3.  Getting my wife to love playing golf was the key.  Inviting her to join me in playing some of the more special courses was/is important also.  She knows how special it is to me, so asking her to join makes her feel good.

4.  Don't know

5.  For me the experience that changed it all was pulling up to Oakmont in a taxi from Pittsburgh airport Fall 2007.  A one day trip flying solo to and from NYC to play in an outing I knew no one else at was aggressive.  I literally had chills when I saw that clubhouse.  That's when it started and since everything else has come from that point, Ill call that my most memorable golf experience.

Brian

[John Kavanaugh]

I take it that this is your twitter account: https://twitter.com/ddinamsterdam Because if so your behavior is truly abnormal. 

[David Davis]

John, 100 tweets in 3 years, don't really use Twitter as you can tell. Ok so 90% of them are about golf. Can't be that bad. In my defense I have had a fair bit of free time in the last years. Rather than filling it in with sex,drugs and rock&roll, I mean this is Amsterdam and I know the perception as well as the next guy ha ha, I filled it in with golf. To make up for being a late starter and catch up on all the knowledge and ability everyone's been acquiring over the years while I was busy with other endeavors....

I agree and even pointed out that I love it. No secrets here.

[Jason Topp]

Many of my best decisions in life were based on gut instinct with no obvious logical basis.  From my view, your Cypress decision might have been one of those. 

Well done and welcome!  You clearly belong here.

[John Kavanaugh]

John, 100 tweets in 3 years, don't really use Twitter as you can tell. Ok so 90% of them are about golf. Can't be that bad. In my defense I have had a fair bit of free time in the last years. Rather than filling it in with sex,drugs and rock&roll, I mean this is Amsterdam and I know the perception as well as the next guy ha ha, I filled it in with golf. To make up for being a late starter and catch up on all the knowledge and ability everyone's been acquiring over the years while I was busy with other endeavors....

I agree and even pointed out that I love it. No secrets here.

You are a handsome dude living in Amsterdam, I'm jealous.  You call yourself a father and and divorcee, care to share that story?

[Jason Thurman]

Last straws are funny. I once dumped a girl after dating for two years because I couldn't fathom spending $25 to ride in a canoe with her for two hours. I dumped another one at Disney World rather than sit through breakfast with her morbidly obese sister. In retrospect, maybe I could've waited until we were home from the airport and made things a bit less awkward. The point is we all snap somewhere. At least you got to go to Cypress Point afterwards instead of the Orlando Airport.

[Stephen Davis]

David,

I really enjoyed reading your post. I think you made the correct decision about Cypress. If she couldn't appreciate that it meant so much to you, than she obviously didn't care enough about your feelings. To answer your questions.


1. I hope it isn't abnormal

2. My wife, who is the greatest woman I have ever known, is as supportive as I could realistically expect. She gives me the usual jabs about reading so much on GCA, but she knows that this is what I am passionate about, so she indulges me.

3. I can only speak for myself, but I am grateful for my wife as she keeps me balanced. If left to myself, I would become overly obsessed with golf. She lets me know, in a loving way, if she feels my priorities have become out of balance. It also helps that I have two little boys who are the world to me too. I enjoy spending as much time as possible with them and try to arrange my golfing habit in ways that limit my time away from my family (either by bringing them with me, golfing very early in the morning, or taking weekend trips when they are visiting my  in-laws). It seems to work well as I have been able to play at some fantastic courses in the past few years.

4. This is a good question. I have no idea. I know that among my friends, I am the most passionate by a long shot. However, there are many on this site more knowledgeable and more experienced than I, but passion is hard to quantify.

5. My most memorable golf experience was my first trip to Bandon Dunes. When I walked on to the property for the first time and looked out at the ocean and the links in front of me, I felt that I was on hallowed ground (I know that sounds a bit blasphemous, but it is exactly how I felt.) That experience has shaped who I have become as a golfer and opened my eyes to the wonderful world of golf around me.

[David Davis]

John, happy to share any and all stories. I'm from Oregon, but have been living in Europe for 20 years. Came over for a sports consulting job after Uni. Back in those days I thought golf was for old farts and assumed I'd convert from real sports once I retired if I lived that long. While spending a couple years skiing in the alps I met a beautiful Dutch woman on vacation there. We all have our tragic flaws and weaknesses. I chased her to The Netherlands. Was the first time I was blinded by love in life. Together for 10 years, married for 8 of them. Cultural differences, background differences and things I could not accept arose. We divorced amicably and have two beautiful daughters who are 11 and 14 years old. They live a couple hundred meters from me. I was too young to understand everything about life and different cultures. I still am but I'm many years wiser as a result. Golf however, breaks down these barriers. This is my 9th year after coming over to the darkside out of sheer peer pressure and clients that were all golf nuts. I learned over here and found in golf what I once had in tennis. After not managing to be a successful tennis pro the game only gets worse as you get older. Golf gave me something I realized I'd never master and could always show improvement in, even if it were only in being a better playing partner to the others in the group or having a more positive outlook. Golf filled in the time gaps after divorce which is why I had so much time to spend on it. It's been a great choice and has now taken me all over the world and I know it's just beginning. There is a planet full of great courses and interesting people just waiting.

I'm here for friendship, comradery, learning and sharing the club I'm fortunate to be a member of and the country I've adopted as my own with others passionate about great golf. How's that for abnormal?

Thanks for asking, I know you got more than you hoped for. C'est la vie!

[Ulrich Mayring]

You did the right thing.

It's always better to choose golf over a woman, unless that woman is a very special woman. But a very special woman would never ask you to cancel an invitation to Cypress.

Plus, if she plays golf and doesn't understand, then you got yourself a lady, who plays golf for some external reason. Her heart isn't in it.

Ulrich

[Mike Sweeney]

3. Those of you in successful long term relationships, please enlighten me as to relevant wisdom or advice on how you've managed to find the balance or has this been forced upon you?

A couple of points:

1. My wife of almost 20 years yelled at me when I made my first trip to Fishers. There were extenuating circumstances, but we are still here! When I showed up at the famous GCA hangout, the Ramada Inn @ New London, my former GCA poster roommate was snoring!! Yikes, the curse was on, but Fishers is Fishers.

2. Find a cool pro at a nice 9 hole golf course (Jim Kennedy @ Hotchkiss) and take the kids and be a "Great Dad" !!

3. Get her a gay husband who is everything that you are not:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3273317963261&set=a.1157169180864.2021443.1576777887&type=1&theater

PS - That is a legit picture !! 

4. Get her into running if she does not love golf. Running is now dominated by women and they all love the bonding.

5. Join Yale and she thinks you are hanging out with a legit crowd.....

[Mac Plumart]

1. Is this abnormal behavior in your eyes?   No.  I'm with you.

2. Where do you draw the line with golf?   What line?  Seriously.

 Does your wife/girlfriend/partner accept it fully or is it some kind of secretive indulgance that has taught you to be a master of Alt/Tabbing GCA quickly away and back to spreadsheets or something else you should be doing? Fully acceptted.

Or are you perhaps a believer in the seperation of golf and relationships, we must choose one or the other?  No seperation in golf and relationships.  Golf is part of my life...if you embrace me...you embrace golf.


3. Those of you in successful long term relationships, please enlighten me as to relevant wisdom or advice on how you've managed to find the balance or has this been forced upon you?  I can't help.  I've only been golfing for 5 years.  My wife begged me to get a hobby for years as all I did was work.  Then I got a hobby...golf. 


4. I'm curious who would receive the reward (the proverbial Claret Jug) for being the most passionate golf (golf course architecture) enthusiast on the site? And why? What makes you/him that person?

Tom Doak.  My understanding is that from a young age he was totally absorbed with golf courses.  Went to college and studied architecture.  Took an extended tour of Great Britian and golf courses.  I think he actually talked Cornell into making it part of his education.  Begged Pete Dye to let him work for him.  Got the job.  Went on to form his own firm.  Builds classic courses.  Has a presitgious internship that has paved the way for some other great golf course architects.  When he isn't building golf courses or writing about them...he posts on here.  Hands down, the answer is Tom Doak.

5. Lastly, I'm interested in your single most significant and memorable golfing experience as I'm sure there are many brilliant, fun, interesting and humorous stories. I'll start by sharing one of mine for those that are interested.


My first trip to Mullen, NE.  I could go on and on about it...but instead we could meet up there sometime and I'll show you first hand.


By the way, do you live in Amsterdam full-time?

[Tim Martin]

David-You did the right thing at Cypress and you have landed in the right place here on GCA. Your passion for this great game and its landscapes are shared and your candid commentary is applauded. I for one would like to welcome you and look forward to your future contributions. Finally even though I am happily married with two beautiful children I am in fact very attracted to you.

[mike_beene]

My wife of 27 years could care less about golf but she does like to walk the course on vacation-holiday from time to time.She thinks the sport is healthy for me and is glad I don't trek all over the world hunting.She would want me to play Cypress.There was a time I played too much and she worried I would lose my business and she was right.She also counted 40 putters upstairs once and was not pleased.Now I move them around.I do skip golf when there is a commitment and she likes me to go to church with her so I play Sumday afternoon and not morning.It sounds like you did the right thing.My favorite golf day was a beautiful 36 hole day at Gullane. Just one of those days where all seems right.

[David Davis]

Life is full of difficult decisions and choices, especially today: GCA - Open - GCA - Open. May I first applaud those of you that have found that one in a million wife/partner, you've one upped me already. I'll even cut you some slack if that wonderful lady was peaking over your shoulder to edit your text knowing that countless rounds of future golf were counting on every word you said.

(Tiger just stiffed his first tee shot, sorry had to look up for that one, it clearly made Rose nervous)

@Bill  Yes I'm committed but I'm also committed in relationships in all ways, including clearly making poor choices based on external qualities. Tragic flaw and weakness as I previously mentioned.

@Sean Golf never once got in the way of family for me either and still doesn't. I didn't golf when I was still married. 1200 clams indeed, it wasn't just a game or a round however, it was Cypress. Value for money by far the most valuable round of my life.

@Brian Thanks and nice work on getting the wife involved. My ex fiance' was a former 2x Mexican National Champion (Juniors), I won't post a photo (even if I could figure out how to do that) but one of the most beautiful women and what a golf swing. Problem was she had grown to hate the sport and didn't want to play in The Netherlands at all because it was too cold, too wet and too windy.

@Stephen  I'm with you, Bandon is hallowed ground for golfers and in all fairness if someone doesn't agree with that they probably haven't been there.

@Ulrich  wise words sir: das glaube ich auch!

@Mike  thanks, I'm dying to see that Facebook photo but I'm just getting a content is currently unavailable page.

@Mac  Yes full time (15 minutes outside of Amsterdam actually) except when I can get away. Mullen, Nebraska, looks a bit like a barren wasteland and is in the middle of nowhere - I love it. Have not been YET. You must be in sales...

@Tim  I live in Amsterdam and if I had a dollar for every happily married man with two kids that found me attractive..., so you are going to have to take a number and wait till I become a switch hitter. On the other hand these guys have not been golfers and I'm open to a golfing sugar daddy so on second thought - feel free to PM me.

@Mike  I can see how 36 at Gullane could make any man happy. 40 putters...wow, I hope you found the one. Although I've known many a woman who's had at least 40 pairs of shoes, also moved them around and will never find, "the one". I hope you have more luck! Thanks for the comment and great going on the 27 years. I respect and admire that.







 

[Brad Tufts]

1.  Nope.

2.  I'm obsessed like everyone else, but I find it good that I live in Boston where I cannot be consumed year-round.  2-3 months off is good for the moderation, always allows for catching up with things you couldn't do when golf and life was hectic during the summer.  My wife is a saint, and she has slowly begun to recognize how happy getting to play and travel occasionally makes me.  Now that we have a daughter is has changed slightly, but just become more defined really.  I wish she played golf with me more than a couple times per year, but I can't see her seriously taking it up until the little one (and any subsequent little one) is much older.

3.  We dated for 7 years through college, mid-20s, and then her business school before marriage...she knew what she was getting into.  Communication, as in all aspects of human interaction, is key.  I've been burned many times by the "oh I don't think she'll care" line of thinking.  Tell her what you are thinking and they will often realize how important your wants/desires are and be cool with it at least on some level.

4.  I'm not one to say...we have architects, course tour posters, and guys with travel stories that will boggle the mind.  I've done some crazy things for golf, but never have broken up an engagement, never woken up at 1am to drive 8 hours, etc.  I have fudged a work plane ticket though...they still were willing to pay for it, so it didn't matter whether I was physically on the flight, right?

5.  Too many to almost mention, from 5 trips to the UK, to travels around the American west, to 3 trips to CA in 2007….even having all those on my resume…nothing can beat a late-afternoon round at your home course with friends or family.  I try to set up potential great experiences all the time and try to stay in the moment.  We love great golf course talk, but the bottom line is that several hours on any course is better than several hours at your desk!

Welcome to GCA, where the lunatics run the asylum!

[David Davis]

Brad,

Thanks. Sounds like you've made good choices, always nice to have a saint in the house. Over here golf is all year round, really it's like 365 days a year winter but closer to what you might call a rainy/windy fall in Boston area I guess.

Keep up the trips, we'll have to get all you guys over to the flatlands here for some Dutch links golf, which is really quite excellent.

David

[John Kavanaugh]

John, happy to share any and all stories. I'm from Oregon, but have been living in Europe for 20 years. Came over for a sports consulting job after Uni. Back in those days I thought golf was for old farts and assumed I'd convert from real sports once I retired if I lived that long. While spending a couple years skiing in the alps I met a beautiful Dutch woman on vacation there. We all have our tragic flaws and weaknesses. I chased her to The Netherlands. Was the first time I was blinded by love in life. Together for 10 years, married for 8 of them. Cultural differences, background differences and things I could not accept arose. We divorced amicably and have two beautiful daughters who are 11 and 14 years old. They live a couple hundred meters from me. I was too young to understand everything about life and different cultures. I still am but I'm many years wiser as a result. Golf however, breaks down these barriers. This is my 9th year after coming over to the darkside out of sheer peer pressure and clients that were all golf nuts. I learned over here and found in golf what I once had in tennis. After not managing to be a successful tennis pro the game only gets worse as you get older. Golf gave me something I realized I'd never master and could always show improvement in, even if it were only in being a better playing partner to the others in the group or having a more positive outlook. Golf filled in the time gaps after divorce which is why I had so much time to spend on it. It's been a great choice and has now taken me all over the world and I know it's just beginning. There is a planet full of great courses and interesting people just waiting.

I'm here for friendship, comradery, learning and sharing the club I'm fortunate to be a member of and the country I've adopted as my own with others passionate about great golf. How's that for abnormal?

Thanks for asking, I know you got more than you hoped for. C'est la vie!

David,

Sorry I didn't back sooner but I was golfing.  Let me get this straight.  When the two time Mexican National Junior Champion received an offer to be trained for her new job in LA you were a 40 something divorcee with two children.  Is that right?  How old was the two time MNJC at the time?  Was her objection to you following her to California really just a wish that you not come to California or specifically that you not come to California and play Cypress?  Would she had stayed with you if you simply visited the Getty?  Sorry, but it is an interesting story.  I mean really, what two time MNJC wants a 40 something divorcee with two children holding her back as she builds an exciting new life in America.  LA no less.

[David Davis]

John,

Jeez, you make it sound so bad...BUT, yes, I was 41 to be exact, may I say a young spirited 41? She was 29, turning 30. Why me is your next question? Well, I'll tell you it ain't the money, lost everything in the divorce and after. So there must be some other reason. I don't have a direct answer for you. However, I can try my best. I think I'm charming and funny, living in a country where people are not extremely friendly in general, there are always exceptions but they are not warm to foreigners really. IMO I treat women with respect and the way they should be treated, however as previously mentioned I make bad choices and fall for very beautiful yet troubled souls. When you are an expat it's easy to meet other expats that are single and fed up with the local population which they have nothing in common with or have learned they do not treat them the way they would like to be treated.

I know it sounds a bit strange, just trying to give you the best answer I can. If I showed you a photo, trust me you might really ask how, she's that beautiful IMO. Funny thing is I hadn't even paid her a second look after I met her until someone said she was a golfer. Then I was so astounded and in disbelief I had to see it with my own eyes. We took one golf trip together, the only one I've ever done with a woman. Lahinch, BallyBunion, Waterville and Esker Hills because it was in the middle of the country. If life could of been like that trip I'd still be head over. However, that was, in retrospect the win-me-over stage.

She lives in Amsterdam and LA is not in the question. It was California in general, not just Cypress, BUT it was Cypress that made me go as apposed to just canceling the trip which I almost did. Honestly, I was whipped, not good and unhealthy. There is a lot more to the story and every one of my mates has told me they couldn't believe I lasted that long as she was so high maintenance that no-one could put up with her.

So what's the Getty? Should that be on my list ha ha?

[John Kavanaugh]

David,

Here is a link to the Getty: http://www.getty.edu/museum/ The Villa is also a nice respite. Maybe we could hook up there someday if we happen to be in LA together.

[David Davis]

You caught me off guard there and completely out of context. I've heard of the Getty Museum just didn't realize you were going to get all cultural on me. You know I live 15 minutes away from arguable two of the world best museums. Van Gogh Museum and the Rijks Museum. Tell you what, if we can start our day by taking in some of LA's finest golf courses to put me in the right mood to consume some culture then sure you've got yourself a deal.