[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,

I also enjoyed the 12th hole. The green was a great concept and I'd love to see how it would play at a longer distance. Probably my favorite on the course. I also enjoyed the tee shot at 13, though I think it's a bit of a one-trick hole.

I don't disagree that there are a handful of nice holes, but also some uniquely awful ones. I disliked the overall concept and found it unpleasant to play.

Where would you put it on the Doak Scale?

Jason,

I would say a Doak 2 or 3.  But, I will say there are a couple of thrilling tee shots there.  I do like extreme golf every once in awhile!!

I forgot to say that I agree that the 4th is an AWFULL hole.  I remember getting to this hole on both the tee shot and 2nd shot and saying what the you know what do I do here!!

I should post my top 10, but I suspect many on this board will not have heard of most of the courses.  My one regret when I lived in the NYC area was not playing the Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge.  Mike Cirba used to post about the course and it was legendary!!  So bad, I wished I would have experienced it (see attached):

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47444.0.html

Chris

[Greg Tallman]

1. Grenada Golf Club (Grenada) - Those that say they LOVE quirk, check it out. Par three opener(thats the good),Greens stimping at about 2, horseshoe shaped hole, multiple crossing holes... just a doozy.

2. Mahogany Run (St Thomas USVI) - Great land for about 12 wonderful holes, unfortunately they have 18 holes.

3. Gulf Harbour Yacht & CC (Ft Myers, FL) - Simply atrocious real estate/condo golf

4. Orange Lake Resort (Orlando, FL) - Swamp left, swamp right 35 yard corridors... they mix it up br having you cross a swamp on occasion -avoid at all costs.

5. South Hills GC (Parkersburg, WV) - Poor routing on a decent piece of land suited for fewer holes. Now owned by a good friend... I feel badly for Ted!

6. Treesdale GC (Pittsburgh, PA) - Terrible Palmer course, tee shots over roads... etc.

7. Glenville Golf Club (Glenville, WV) - 9 holes on land meant for about 7

8. The Sanctuary (Sanibel Island, FL) - just typical Florida swamp golf in very high end developement. Art Hills.

9. Buccaneer GC - (St. Croix, USVI) - Don't believe there was a decent golf hole on the property... plenty of views though

10. Puerto Los Cabos - (San José del Cabo, México) - Aside from the fact that is a hybrid Nicklaus/Norman design they were each given a portion of land that is not necessarily suited for golf. First hole on each plays up a 25-30% grade. Each also have a very short stretch on the ocean and Norman did a far better job with his though the few good holes do not make up for an otherwise bizarre course/experience. Views are wonderful however. Bottom of the list for Cabo golf (supppose I can check that family off the list of potential future employers!)

[Joe Bausch]

Chris,

I also enjoyed the 12th hole. The green was a great concept and I'd love to see how it would play at a longer distance. Probably my favorite on the course. I also enjoyed the tee shot at 13, though I think it's a bit of a one-trick hole.

I don't disagree that there are a handful of nice holes, but also some uniquely awful ones. I disliked the overall concept and found it unpleasant to play.

Where would you put it on the Doak Scale?

Jason,

I would say a Doak 2 or 3.  But, I will say there are a couple of thrilling tee shots there.  I do like extreme golf every once in awhile!!

I forgot to say that I agree that the 4th is an AWFULL hole.  I remember getting to this hole on both the tee shot and 2nd shot and saying what the you know what do I do here!!

I should post my top 10, but I suspect many on this board will not have heard of most of the courses.  My one regret when I lived in the NYC area was not playing the Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge.  Mike Cirba used to post about the course and it was legendary!!  So bad, I wished I would have experienced it (see attached):

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47444.0.html

Chris

Good news a little birdie relayed to me recently:  CCotP@BR offers discounted rates via GolfNow.   

[astavrides]

Armand Hammer Pony Course (West LA) - Geoff Shackleford has written real positive things about this place, but my take is you could just as easily go to a field and have as much fun as you do at this place.

thank you!  every hole is 50 yds long and you have to bump it under trees (thru kikyu if memory serves) to get to the green.  i don't know why it gets good reviews on this site.

[Mike Hendren]

You boys might be playing for second place.  Haven't played the courses below but it appears to be an ingenious routing of two 18's.  Best I can tell you start either south of E. Hartford or north of E. Glassboro Ct. and then zig-zag east/west then turn around when you reach the north or south border and head back, zig-zagging east/west again.    



Bogey

[Bruce Wellmon]

I wish I knew how to post a Google maps pic here.
My personal "blow it up"course is Rocky River Golf Course in Concord, NC which is located next to a drag strip. And I mean next to it.

[Eric Smith]

I wish I knew how to post a Google maps pic here.
My personal "blow it up"course is Rocky River Golf Course in Concord, NC which is located next to a drag strip. And I mean next to it.

I just happened to have that one handy, Doc.

[Greg Tallman]

You boys might be playing for second place.  Haven't played the courses below but it appears to be an ingenious routing of two 18's.  Best I can tell you start either south of E. Hartford or north of E. Glassboro Ct. and then zig-zag east/west then turn around when you reach the north or south border and head back, zig-zagging east/west again.    



Bogey

That is almost exacly what the routing looked like for the course David Kidd was to do here in Cabo. In fairness he did have 3 or 4 holes in the dunes before the ladder routing commenced. Awful does not describe it... and this was to be adjacent to Diamante. Sure they would have done quite well.

[Mac Plumart]

My bottom 10...

10)  Oprah Winfrey
9)    Michelle Obama
8 )   Jessica Simpson  
7)    Snooki
6)    Stacey Dash
5)    Shakira
4)    Jennifer Lopez
3)    Kim Kardasian
2)    Nikki Minaj
1)    Coco Austin

Honorable Mention...Rush Limbaugh... 

[Greg Tallman]

My bottom 10...

10)  Oprah Winfrey
9)    Michelle Obama
8 )   Jessica Simpson   
7)    Snooki
6)    Stacey Dash
5)    Shakira
4)    Jennifer Lopez
3)    Kim Kardasian
2)    Nikki Minaj
1)    Coco Austin

How dare you place Shakira amongst such a group?

[Sam Morrow]

Oprah is not an attractive women but for my weekly allowance I'd go down there and wreck shop.

[astavrides]

I guess most of these are more mediocre than bad..... They stand out I suppose because I
1) had a bad experience,
2) had one stupid Mickey Mouse hole that makes it hard to forgive the other 17, or
3) I paid a lot of money for something that was really disappointing.

I am actually inspired now to find some of these you guys are suggesting  

I hear Lake Arbor is the worst in the Denver area, but I haven't played it.  I think it might be mentioned in the Confidential guide.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I wish I knew how to post a Google maps pic here.
My personal "blow it up"course is Rocky River Golf Course in Concord, NC which is located next to a drag strip. And I mean next to it.

I just happened to have that one handy, Doc.

Thanks E. A picture is worth a 1000 words.
Sorry, I forgot about the dirt track.

[mike_beene]

Mountain Air in NC mountains starts off with overly severe slopes and kept getting lost on neighborhoods between holes plus AstroTurf tees on several par 3s. But my winner is a course in Jamaca,name long forgotten.The conditions were awful.Caddies were required to guard your clubs from theft.The caddies stayed with the bags while we putted because the week before one tended a pin and his guys clubs got stolen in a run by

[David Kelly]

2. Bear Brook - Fredon, NJ - 18 signature holes.  triple tierred green that run away from you, 600 yard par 5 with 90 degree dogleg with a 2nd shot landing the size of a par 3 green, narrow corridors, rolling terrain, what more could one ask for

This one intrigued me so I went to their website and took a "tour" of the course online.  Here are some holes and the descriptions given by the club. Grammatical and spelling areas are from the original, apparently the guy who wrote this couldn't spell the word "straight."

Hole #1 - PLAY TO THE 150 POLE (Black & White pole in the middle of the fairway) Pick a club you can hit stright 200 yards!  Anything left is gree-capped enviromental and is a free drop from where it went in.

Hole #2 - Course management skills are put to the test early in your round, with this abrupt dogleg right....Strong hitters leave your driver in the bag off the tee. Try to land just shy of the 150 yard post in the middle of the fairway. DO NOT HIT OVER THE HOUSE AND DO NOT TRY TO RETRIEVE YOUR BALL FROM THEIR LAWNS!!

Hole #4 - Despite the course drawing clearly showing two alternate greens, You made it through the first three holes!  You can grip and rip now.  There's only one green here and it's stright out over the horizon.  This hole is fairly wide open so widen your stance!

Hole #6 - The above mentioned L-shaped par 5 hole, One of our more scenic holes, the first par five you face is also testing. Even the most hearty won't try to get home in two. You'll need to carry a broad natural area to reach the green. Don't worry, you can buy more golf balls in the pro shop at the turn.

Hole #12 - Swing away.......aim for the 150 pole and just right of it if your a big hitter, the fairway bends ever so slightly right on top of the hill.  And be careful with your cart - stay off the hill! Second Shot - aim stright over the irrigation box to the right of the fairway!

Hole #14 - According to the drawing the hole plays 706 from the back tee. Fourteen -the big Kahuna - the one you've heard about. It is long with a capital "L". If it was a ski slope, it would be a Black Diamond. You'll love par here...Forget reaching in two. You must be long and straight to get home in 3.

Hole #15 - You deserve some eye candy at this point in the round. This beautiful setting is our signature hole - an inviting green floating on a series of ponds linked by a gentle waterfall. Great golf hole!

Hole #16 - Another sight to behold. The view from the tee is simply amazing - you can nearly see all the way to Pennsylvania. Now look down and focus on keeping your tee shot in the fairway...This is a blind-shot so aim stright over the red & white directional pole.  There's more room up ahead than you think so keep an eye on your partner's balls. [Emphasis added.] OB on both sides - please do not try to retrieve your balls.  Second shot is all downhill so choose accordingly.

Hole #18 - Quite a bizarre and cryptic warning on this hole. Beware of the right side of the fairway - the creek is lying in wait. That's our golf ball grave yard. Keep in mind you are responsible for the flight of your ball and there's no way you're going to reach the green from the tee - so align your shot within the boundaries of the hole!

I think I need to play it.

[Sven Nilsen]

I played golden tee last night for the first time in six or seven years.  Made me think of this thread, and all the courses you have to hit a big A3 on.

[David Harshbarger]

2. Bear Brook - Fredon, NJ - 18 signature holes.  triple tierred green that run away from you, 600 yard par 5 with 90 degree dogleg with a 2nd shot landing the size of a par 3 green, narrow corridors, rolling terrain, what more could one ask for

This one intrigued me so I went to their website and took a "tour" of the course online.  Here are some holes and the descriptions given by the club. Grammatical and spelling areas are from the original, apparently the guy who wrote this couldn't spell the word "straight."

Hole #1 - PLAY TO THE 150 POLE (Black & White pole in the middle of the fairway) Pick a club you can hit stright 200 yards!  Anything left is gree-capped enviromental and is a free drop from where it went in.

Hole #2 - Course management skills are put to the test early in your round, with this abrupt dogleg right....Strong hitters leave your driver in the bag off the tee. Try to land just shy of the 150 yard post in the middle of the fairway. DO NOT HIT OVER THE HOUSE AND DO NOT TRY TO RETRIEVE YOUR BALL FROM THEIR LAWNS!!

Hole #4 - Despite the course drawing clearly showing two alternate greens, You made it through the first three holes!  You can grip and rip now.  There's only one green here and it's stright out over the horizon.  This hole is fairly wide open so widen your stance!

Hole #6 - The above mentioned L-shaped par 5 hole, One of our more scenic holes, the first par five you face is also testing. Even the most hearty won't try to get home in two. You'll need to carry a broad natural area to reach the green. Don't worry, you can buy more golf balls in the pro shop at the turn.

Hole #12 - Swing away.......aim for the 150 pole and just right of it if your a big hitter, the fairway bends ever so slightly right on top of the hill.  And be careful with your cart - stay off the hill! Second Shot - aim stright over the irrigation box to the right of the fairway!

Hole #14 - According to the drawing the hole plays 706 from the back tee. Fourteen -the big Kahuna - the one you've heard about. It is long with a capital "L". If it was a ski slope, it would be a Black Diamond. You'll love par here...Forget reaching in two. You must be long and straight to get home in 3.

Hole #15 - You deserve some eye candy at this point in the round. This beautiful setting is our signature hole - an inviting green floating on a series of ponds linked by a gentle waterfall. Great golf hole!

Hole #16 - Another sight to behold. The view from the tee is simply amazing - you can nearly see all the way to Pennsylvania. Now look down and focus on keeping your tee shot in the fairway...This is a blind-shot so aim stright over the red & white directional pole.  There's more room up ahead than you think so keep an eye on your partner's balls. [Emphasis added.] OB on both sides - please do not try to retrieve your balls.  Second shot is all downhill so choose accordingly.

Hole #18 - Quite a bizarre and cryptic warning on this hole. Beware of the right side of the fairway - the creek is lying in wait. That's our golf ball grave yard. Keep in mind you are responsible for the flight of your ball and there's no way you're going to reach the green from the tee - so align your shot within the boundaries of the hole!

I think I need to play it.

LOL funny.  Now that you've played the good courses you want to see, do you see a new avenue of golf opening, to drink deeply from the well of the misbegotten?  I know I want to see these courses.  CC of the Poconos?  Bear Brook?  I'm thinking these are must plays.

[Greg Chambers]

You know that nobody was paying attention to the details when the tips tell you to aim over the irrigation box...

[Greg Tallman]

1. The Summit-NLE- Berkeley Springs, WV-Had the worse hole I've ever seen!

2. Sleepy Hollow-Charles town, WV

3. Goose Creek-Leesburg, VA

4. Carper's Valley-NLE- Winchester, VA

5. Cobb's Creek(Olde)-Philadelphia,PA

6. Sea Scape, Nags Head, NC

7. Montclair-dumfries, VA

8. Chesapeake Bay(North East)-North East, MD

9. Bowling Green(North)-Front Royal, VA

10. Ed Oliver-Wilmington, DE
[/quote

Cory, do you mean Slepy Hollow in Hurricane, WV just outside Charleston? Charles Town is over in the eastern panhandle whereas C harleston is in the middle of the state. If so i am surprised to see that Sleepy Hollow on anyone's worst 10 list. 

[Ron Csigo]

My bottom 10...

  
7)    Snooki

How dare you?!? 

[Greg Tallman]

Heck there is a course in the top 10 in NC that i was seriously considering for my list.

[John Crowley]

Matt Peterson  ( reply 21) is right on the Crossings at Carlsbad. It is also probably the most expensive GCA disaster ever. I believe the clubhouse cost $40 million and the course $20 million. Last I heard they were going to put another $10 million in to " improve" the course.

[Sam Morrow]

Heck there is a course in the top 10 in NC that i was seriously considering for my list.

Do tell

[Sam Morrow]

Sam, congrats on your course record at Heron Lakes!

Just curious, are there either herons or lakes there?

Would it be possible for you to post a picture of the 400 yard par 5 with the 11 yard deep by 4 yards wide green?  That actually sounds very cool.

Morro Bay is a fun seaside course with some natural holes thru the pines up and down the hills.

My 2 WORST course nominations are as follows:

UK:  The Bracken course at Woodhall Spa by Donald Steele features ugly looking mounds, bunkers with an unattractive 1970s like flair, and florida like lakes in the middle of the fairways.  Particualry noteable is the downhill par 3 on the front nine that strongly downwind with a fronting creek.  As the Hotchkin is a world top 100 course, is there any golf complex anywhere that claims 2 courses of a greater range of greatness (and crapiness)?

US:  The Alotian is a 47 mile endlessly long concrete cartball ride that pretends to channel the spirit of Augusta National except the part about walking the golf course.  With its friendly bowled in fairways and over the top clubhouse service (they ask you on the driving range what brand of ball you would like to hit and then give you a bag of your selected brand as practice balls), easily impressed GD panelists might love the Alotian but I would rather walk Palm Valley than play there again.  Given the nearly infinite wealth of the founders and therefore likely unlimited property available in Ark, it is a shame that Tom Fazio did not insist on a parcel that would have produced a walkable routing rather than settling for the somewhat scenic (trust me, the views are not the same as Lake Como or Lake Geneva or even Gozzer Ranch for that matter) hillside.

I don't have any pictures, I never saw a heron and there are ponds and maybe a lake or two. Here is the website http://heronlakesgc.com/

[Mac Plumart]

My bottom 10...

  
7)    Snooki

How dare you?!? 

Fyi that list is a top 10 bottoms list.

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