Your Bottom 10

[Sam Morrow]

Posting in the Top 25 courses you have played thread got me to thinking about college football and how it's right around the corner. It also got me thinking about how each week ESPN does a Bottom 10 ranking and it got me to thinking what the 10 worst courses I've ever played were. I think it should also be explained why it makes your bottom 10. So here is mine.

1. Heron Lakes, Houston. I worked at this course for 2 years and am the course record holder, that right there is reason that it sucks. It's a par 69 measuring a whopping 5,500 yards, it's built in a business/residential development next to the Sam Houston Tollway. You would come into work on a given day and find that they've gotten rid of a hole or cut it in half. There is a 400 yard par 5 with a green that's 11 yards deep and 4 yards wide. Those numbers aren't jokes. Could be the worst course in America.

2. Texas A&M Golf Course, College Station. A terrible design with parallel holes, hidden hazards, paths running through the middle of the fairway and despite being an agricultural school it's conditions are beyond crappy. I read the other day that's it's going to be renovated.

3. Bear Creek Presidents, Houston. When it was built in 1969 it was designed to hold as many players as possible. The course is short, open, and for the most part void of hazards. It's also built in a flood plain so spends good chunks of the year closed.

4. Pasadena Golf Club, Pasadena, Texas. See #3 except this course is next to Ellington Air Field and the staff is unfriendly.

5. Sharpstown Golf Course, Houston. See 3 and 4. This course actually hosted a few Houston Open's in the 60's with good champions, Mike Souchak, and Bobby Nichols. There are lots of apartments on the course and most of them are lower income and populated by asians. Next to a par 3 a young gal asked my friend and I if we wanted to love her long time.  Good times.

6. Pharoahs Country Club Corpus Christi, Texas. Internal OB, doglegs where you must play over houses, and you must cross a major road, sounds like fun. On the plus side it's just off Corpus Christi Bay.

7. Texas National, Willis. It's advertised at the Augusta of Texas, didn't know that Augusta was so claustrophobic.

8. Tomball Country Club Tomball, Texas. Short, narrow, hidden ponds that are the size of a couch.

9. World Houston, Houston. On the grounds at Bush Intercontinental Airport, I think it's closed now, smallest greens I've ever seen and built in a flood plain.

10. Sterling Country Club, Houston. This is one of the few new clubs that opened in America last year. It's about a mile from my house and is a shame because there are actually some really good holes on the back 9 but the front 9 could be the worst in America. There are 3 holes on the front where the pro tips say to play it over houses.

These are the worst Texas has to offer, Florida almost made an appearance as the Disney Palm Course just missed the bottom 10.

[Matthew Rose]

Now this is a thread I can enjoy..... I've never come close to playing a top 100 course, but this.... this I can do

1. A public course in Marlowe, Oklahoma whose name escapes me. A group of six of us played and we had four golf carts break down between the two groups over the course of 18 holes. I'm pretty sure the fairways were mowed by goats.

2. Sun Prairie Country Club, Sun Prairie, WI. It pains me to think that they actually held competitive high school matches here. Except for the actual greens, there was never a single blade of healthy, living grass anywhere on the property. Surrounded on four sides by barb-wire fences which separated the course from cornfields. Smelled like cow flop. Uphill, blind first hole. 17th hole had OB about five feet off the left-hand side of the, ahem, fairway. Doesn't help that I made 10 there once in a school meet.

3. Thorncreek Golf Course, Thornton, CO. As Murphy's Law says, the golf course closest to your house is usually the one you least want to play. That would apply to this abomination. This one has a couple of incredibly stupid holes. There is a 600 yard par-five on the front nine which has a creek cross right at about the 270 mark, so you are either forced to lay up, or you can try to hit the second landing area, which is literally the size of a large tee box and is guarded by the creek and a big bunker, or you can carry it 320 yards to a completely blind third fairway. The other really dumb hole is #11 which is a 460 yard par four and requires another forced layup due to an "environmentally sensitive area". And the worst part is, they built a fence on both sides of it because you can't go in there. But the fence is 5 feet high and is DIRECTLY IN THE LINE OF PLAY. That's right.... WOODEN FENCES directly across the line of play. I believe that happens on a couple of other holes too.

The one time I played the course, on that hole, I hit a perfect drive... only it was a little too perfect and ended up at the end of the fairway, with the WOODEN FENCE about 10 feet in front of my ball. Since I was 200 yards from the hole, I had to hit a hybrid..... I think you can guess what happened next. BANG. What a stupid, stupid golf hole.

4. Yahara Hills (East and West), Madison, WI. A 36 hole complex which consists of the exact same par-four hole 20 times, the exact same par-five hole 8 times, and the exact same par-three hole 8 times. Actually 7 times.... the other one has water. Boring, symmetrical perfect par routing. I put these two courses in as a single unit, mainly because the only way you can remember which one you are playing is to look at the sign. Otherwise, they are basically identical and indisguishable from each other. In fact, there are two par threes on the same course that are right next to each other that play in the exact same direction and are basically the exact same hole. They even share one stupidly large common teeing area. I dare anyone to find a 36 hole complex in America with less variety than this one.

5. Hyland Hills, Gold Course, Westminster, CO. Of course, the next closest facility to my home. I wish I'd played these courses before I bought this house.... this isn't really that bad except for the last two holes, which are stupid, ridiculous attempts to make it look like some kind of half-baked TPC layout. Two par-fours, which both have had original greens on the near side of a creek scrapped and replaced with two really tiny, really shallow greens placed hard on the other side of this creek, with ugly railroad tie frontages and Pete-Dye like pot bunkers, juxtaposed against what is otherwise a fairly benign parkland layout. It's a shame they added the third nine here, because the 9-hole Blue course contains the best holes on the property, and the ones they added (#7-15?) are much less interesting.

6. Pleasant View Golf Course, Middleton, WI. Pedestrian 18 (now 27) laid out in another cornfield with nothing of note around it. On a course that had maybe 10 trees on the entire layout, two of them were right smack in the middle of fairways. Only played here again because of a high school match. I aced the par-3 13th hole (which was a blind shot so I didn't see the ball drop) and broke 80 for the very first time here on my one and only loop.... and yet I never really had any desire to return there.

7. Robina Woods, Gold Coast, QLD, Australia. Was profoundly disappointing.... stupid, overly penal, overpriced swamp in Australia's equivalent of south Florida. Can't remember a single hole. Played it on the recommendation from a tour guide.... fool me once...

8. The International Golf Club, Orlando, FL. Boring, bland Joe Lee cookie cutter. Pretty sure it has been plowed under and re-christened some other moniker.

9. John F. Kennedy Golf Course, Aurora, CO. On this list solely for the 6th hole on one of the nines, which is a par-four that must be played 4-iron, 3-wood and no other way, thanks to the presence of a 70 yard wide gulch that splits the fairway from 240-310 yards out. And you get a lovely view of Interstate 225.

10. Legacy Ridge Golf Course, Westminster, CO. Arthur Hills at his diabolical worst. Three of the four par-fives are almost unplayable.

[Sam Morrow]

I think the course in Marlow is Generations or something silly like that, I've never played it but had a teammate in college from down that way.

[Jason Thurman]

Wow Matthew. I always thought Pleasant View was just the definition of average, but far from terrible. You must be pretty good at avoiding terrible courses.

1. Eagle Ridge, Louisa, KY - With apologies to Doug Ralston, I would greatly prefer that this taxpayer burden be turned back into forest. Interesting and dramatic in spots, but mostly an unplayable "hit and hope" nightmare. For me, this is the course that showed what a Doak 0 looks like.

2. Tumbledown Trails, Madison, WI - If Matthew thought Pleasant View was a crappy course in a cornfield, I'd love to hear what he thinks of this one just a mile or two away. Literally two holes on the course don't play COMPLETELY level. It's worth a look at the aerial just to see how amazingly bad and dangerous the back nine is, where you frequently hit balls directly over other holes: http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=west+middleton+elementary+school,+verona&fb=1&gl=us&hq=west+middleton+elementary+school,+verona&hnear=west+middleton+elementary+school,+verona&cid=0,0,7281846308682431238&sa=X&ei=7SEAUPzDGuKm6wGGyZmXBw&ved=0CHYQ_BIwAA&oi=local_group&ct=image

The cute descriptions of holes 15 and 16 on their course website make me think they haven't been sued yet: http://tumbledowntrails.com/back9.html.

3. Bogie (sic) Busters at Coal Ridge, Georgetown, KY – My grandfather used to love playing here because it was never even a little bit crowded. Highlights include the third, a dogleg right that plays to a push-up green elevated 6 feet above its surroundings and no more than 1000 sq ft in size, and the amazing 12th (I think), a 280 yard par 4 that plays about 50 feet uphill in its final 50 yards to a volcano green surrounded by ornamental rock. Quite a blast to play actually, but mostly because of the almost unbelievably awful conditions (I had a buddy lag putt to 7 feet down the dead fairway from 170 yards last time we played) and some holes that stand among the most unique and stupid ever created.

And yes, they misspelled their own name.

4. High Point, Nicholasville, KY – More boring than the previous 3, this one is just bad. Not much challenge, terrible conditions, and some really stupid holes. As it lacks the quirk of the three above it, I’d actually recommend you play them first. You’ll learn a lot more about architecture and find yourself laughing out loud more than you will at this dull, short, mess of a course.

5. Canewood, Georgetown, KY – The poster child for the downsides to housing development golf. The first hole has a sign begging you not to cut the dogleg by aiming over the houses. It doesn’t get much better from there. Terrifyingly narrow in spots. Also the only course I’ve ever played with different fairway grasses on each nine (Bermuda on one and rye on the other).

6. Juniper Hills, Frankfort, KY – Amazingly, this one has been improved dramatically in the last few years. Mostly, it’s just too short and narrow to be of any interest at all. The first hole is the worst par 4 I’ve ever played, with a huge tree immediately in front of the tee box and a manmade, tarp-lined garden pond at the 300 yard mark that is somehow on top of a small hill instead of in a drainage basin.

7. Longview, Georgetown, KY – Cementing the Georgetown/Frankfort metro area as the worst golf location in the nation, Longview is another snoozer. A bad property, relatively poor conditions, and an absolute lack of any decent holes make this one a candidate for scrambles and not much else. They’ve recently started growing grapes on the property. It would make a much better winery than golf course.

8. Yahara Hills, Madison, WI – I agree with everything Matthew said on this one. I played one of the 18s once in a tournament, and would never go back even though it’s the least crowded public in the Madison area. It is at least relatively challenging, but holds absolutely no interest. And the two par 3s that are the same hole right next to each other are really amazing to see in person.

9. The Legend at Bergamont, Oregon, WI – Probably the “best” course on this list, Bergamont is kept in great shape. Unfortunately, it’s the most boring golf course I’ve ever played. Aside from some of the most impressive houses in southern Wisconsin lining the 10th fairway, it’s so dull that it’s hard to stay mentally engaged while playing it. It’s amazing to see the fairways graded so that they’re completely flat while being surrounded by mounding throughout the rough. Andy North designed it, and that’s fitting, because it’s about as interesting as he is on tv. I left on the 13th hole last time I played it because I was bored.

10. Lakeside, Lexington, KY – It’s long, and not much else. Just a dull, poorly conditioned, run of the mill muni.

[John_Conley]

Matt:

The International Golf Club on I-Drive in Orlando was in fact upgraded and is now Grande Pines.  Steve Smyers worked with the existing corridors and increased the interest level by removing trees and adding wild green complexes.

Sam:

I'm surprised to hear Palm mentioned.  I've always liked it, but maybe that's just relative to Disney's Lake Buena Vista (bland) and Magnolia courses.  One problem I have heard is that Walt Disney himself wanted the WDW property to be fully functional upon opening, which resulted in a hurried construction timeline for the golf courses. 

Some of mine:

* Magnolia Plantation (Orlando area)
* the aforementioned International (NLE - Orlando)
* Monastery (Orange Ciity, just N of Orlando - NLE): bizarre...makes my list despite many fun holes
* La Cita (Titusville, FL)
* Daytona GC (Dayton, MN): as I recall, golf design like a pool table...green and flat everywhere with a few holes

Some bad golf courses are a lot of fun to play.  I'll see if I can remember some other forgettables.

[Ross Harmon]

10. Legacy Ridge Golf Course, Westminster, CO. Arthur Hills at his diabolical worst. Three of the four par-fives are almost unplayable.

I haven't played there in about 6 years, but do remember the par 5s as very challenging. I thought the rest of the course was at least decent though. Anyone else play there recently. I thought I needed to play there again... but maybe I don't.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Bella Colina outside of Orlando heads my list. Drop dead beautiful clubhouse. Two fairways you could not hold with a velcro balls and some super glue. Has some great potential but really needs someone with a big earth mover to pay a visit.

[Tom Ferrell]

10. Legacy Ridge Golf Course, Westminster, CO. Arthur Hills at his diabolical worst. Three of the four par-fives are almost unplayable.

I haven't played there in about 6 years, but do remember the par 5s as very challenging. I thought the rest of the course was at least decent though. Anyone else play there recently. I thought I needed to play there again... but maybe I don't.

You do NOT need to play there again.  More mounds than a Peter Paul factory.  If you feel like a nut, I guess, give it a whirl.  I played there in a friend's benefit scramble a few weeks ago.  Good guy.  Good cause.  Glad I did it.  Vowed at the end that I had played Legacy Ridge for the last time in my life.  And I am VERY comfortable with that decision.

If you're looking for golf in the Westminster area, run, don't walk, to Heritage Westmoor, a Hurdzan/Fry design that really is pretty good. 

[Phil McDade]

Lots of Wisconsin courses listed -- all of which I've played.

Matthew: You under-estimate the appeal of the incredibly fast and firm conditions at Sun Prairie -- the only course in the area that for years didn't over-water its fairways, because it had no irrigation. Sadly, the course has added it, and my guess is that even in this record-setting dry summer here in southern Wisconsin, it's now sporting a shiny green hue. Too bad -- that course in mid-late summer was fun to play, because it resembled a links in the middle of a cornfield. Now it has little appeal.

Yahara Hills: Home to some of the largest tee boxes and greens known to man -- all of which slope back-to-front. I mean, all 36 of them. You guys forgot that it sits adjacent to the county landfill, adding a pleasant aroma when the wind's out of the north. Still, a couple of cool holes, but the descriptions are mostly accurate. (And a course complex full of some ornery regulars. I was playing there once with my father-in-law -- still the single most gentlemanly man I've ever known -- and we were walking and playing at our usual 10/12-minutes-a-hole pace. Two regulars behind us, while we were putting on a green, hit into us from the fairway. My father-in-law calmly watched one of their golf balls land no more than 10 feet from him, picked it up, and tossed it in the woods.)

Pleasant View: Ah, Goat Hill. Used to be better when it was just 18 holes -- they should've left well enough alone. It used to be an enjoyable if mundane round at a decent price with great views of the Madison skyline from the nondescript clubhouse that served decent burgers. Then they added a new nine, with fancy bunkers and water, and jacked up their rates. Food's not as good, either.

Tumbledown Trails: Wear a helmet! Self-designed, and pretty evident. A course that absolutely needs more trees.

Bergamont: Testimony to what can happen when over-zealous developers, with access to easy 1990s money, think housing and clubhouses are key to a successful golf course. Another attempt at a Midwestern faux links course on the front nine, made worse by the waterfall featured on the back nine. See: http://image001.mywedding.com/20/498/20498062_650.jpg An odd work by North, who did much better up in the Dells with Trappers Turn.

My own favorte: Argument Golf Course, near the pretty little town of New Glarus. A nine-hole course where conditioning can be, um, suspect. All of $13 to walk on the weekends; I'm not sure it's worth it. A course that makes a virtue out of lost balls; see this from their website:

"Can YOU play the Argue-Ment with just one ball? Each month we invite our players to attempt to play our 9-hole course using just one golf ball. Our naturalized layout makes succeeding at this a challenge, requiring careful playing and strategy. Visit us and take the challenge. All who succeed get entered in a monthly drawing to win a fun prize!"

My advice: Skip the golf, and head to the local brewery.

[astavrides]

Matthew,
None of the 4 Colorado courses you mentioned are that bad.  Play Box Elder Creek or Meadow Hills if you want true bottom 10 material.

[John McCarthy]

I've played some bad golf courses over the years.  Some that stick out:  

1.  Arizona Golf Resort, Mesa AZ.  Townhouse on both sides of about 14 of 18 holes.  I felt like a character in "The Hills Have Eyes"  .  

2.  White Pines, Bensonville, IL.  It was an average muni when I was a kid then during high school they planted about 1000 trees.  Now the course is very narrow and play takes forever.  Don't worry, it is overpriced, too.  

3.  Old Orchard Golf Course, Arlington Heights, IL.  Too narrow, tree infested.  Plus they dye the ponds blue, like Ty-Dee-Bowl.  WTF?  

4.  Indian Boundary, Chicago, IL  This is a county course run by Billy Casper Golf.  Every penny is wrung out of this place.  The bathrooms smell like a hobo convention.  It opened in January and allowed carts (when the top 1/4 inch was thawed, so the carts destroyed the turf.  It looked like a tractor pull.  One of the starters is a retired CPD detective and cops get to play for free.  Nevermind the tee sheet is full - he just puts them between groups.  One can imagine how the apologies go when you hit into a group of drunk and armed cops.  

5.  Sydny MArovitz, Chicago, IL.  This lil 9 hole gem is on the lakefront, it used to be called Waveland.  The course itself is fine.  But three hour rounds are routine.  Overcrowded and nobody fixes a ballmark or replaces a divot.  Once had a guy walk up to me on the course and ask if I wanted to buy some pot.  Favorite memory:  getting up early one morning to play a quick nine at daybreak and saw one homeless dude giving another bum some "mouth love"  under some bushes.  Some things, my friends, one cannot unsee.  

[Chris_Blakely]

Wow Matthew. I always thought Pleasant View was just the definition of average, but far from terrible. You must be pretty good at avoiding terrible courses.

1. Eagle Ridge, Louisa, KY - With apologies to Doug Ralston, I would greatly prefer that this taxpayer burden be turned back into forest. Interesting and dramatic in spots, but mostly an unplayable "hit and hope" nightmare. For me, this is the course that showed what a Doak 0 looks like.

0-A course so contrived and unnatural that it may poison your mind, which I cannot recommend under any circumstances. Reserved for courses that wasted ridiculous sums of money in their construction, and probably shouldn’t have been built in the first place.


Come on now, a Doak 0, yes I would assume the course required a fair amount of money to build and their C.I.P cart paths seem over the top, but there are some decent holes out there (I know the 13th is gimicky, indulgent, etc.).  But, there is no way you can convince me that it qualifies on all points of TD's definition above (and I am  not an Art Hills fan)!  But, like Golf Digest and their lists, even personal lists need to have controversy to generate conversation, rgiht?

Chris

[John McCarthy]

Lots of Wisconsin courses listed -- all of which I've played.

Matthew: You under-estimate the appeal of the incredibly fast and firm conditions at Sun Prairie -- the only course in the area that for years didn't over-water its fairways, because it had no irrigation. Sadly, the course has added it, and my guess is that even in this record-setting dry summer here in southern Wisconsin, it's now sporting a shiny green hue. Too bad -- that course in mid-late summer was fun to play, because it resembled a links in the middle of a cornfield. Now it has little appeal.

Yahara Hills: Home to some of the largest tee boxes and greens known to man -- all of which slope back-to-front. I mean, all 36 of them. You guys forgot that it sits adjacent to the county landfill, adding a pleasant aroma when the wind's out of the north. Still, a couple of cool holes, but the descriptions are mostly accurate. (And a course complex full of some ornery regulars. I was playing there once with my father-in-law -- still the single most gentlemanly man I've ever known -- and we were walking and playing at our usual 10/12-minutes-a-hole pace. Two regulars behind us, while we were putting on a green, hit into us from the fairway. My father-in-law calmly watched one of their golf balls land no more than 10 feet from him, picked it up, and tossed it in the woods.)

Pleasant View: Ah, Goat Hill. Used to be better when it was just 18 holes -- they should've left well enough alone. It used to be an enjoyable if mundane round at a decent price with great views of the Madison skyline from the nondescript clubhouse that served decent burgers. Then they added a new nine, with fancy bunkers and water, and jacked up their rates. Food's not as good, either.

Tumbledown Trails: Wear a helmet! Self-designed, and pretty evident. A course that absolutely needs more trees.

Bergamont: Testimony to what can happen when over-zealous developers, with access to easy 1990s money, think housing and clubhouses are key to a successful golf course. Another attempt at a Midwestern faux links course on the front nine, made worse by the waterfall featured on the back nine. See: http://image001.mywedding.com/20/498/20498062_650.jpg An odd work by North, who did much better up in the Dells with Trappers Turn.

My own favorte: Argument Golf Course, near the pretty little town of New Glarus. A nine-hole course where conditioning can be, um, suspect. All of $13 to walk on the weekends; I'm not sure it's worth it. A course that makes a virtue out of lost balls; see this from their website:

"Can YOU play the Argue-Ment with just one ball? Each month we invite our players to attempt to play our 9-hole course using just one golf ball. Our naturalized layout makes succeeding at this a challenge, requiring careful playing and strategy. Visit us and take the challenge. All who succeed get entered in a monthly drawing to win a fun prize!"

My advice: Skip the golf, and head to the local brewery.

I was looking at the website for Argue-Ment just yesterday.  Weird.  I'm heading to that area in a few weeks and my buddy who has a cottage up there was telling me about it. 

[Joe_Tucholski]

Goose Run Golf Course (Groton, CT) - It should have a real soft spot in my heart as it's the first course my dad took me out on.  Here's a description from NewLondon.golfnation.org:
"This short course was built on flat terrain and is easy to walk. The tree-lined fairways are narrow and have out-of-bounds stakes on both sides. The greens are of medium size and speed. There is only one brook that comes into play on one hole, but there are sand bunkers on every hole. Most par 4's are short enough to use a driver and then a wedge. The green fees shown are good for all-day play. The course is closed on Monday until noon."

York Par 3 Golf Course (York, ME)- When I was in Jr. High this place was fun to go out at night under the lights.  Apparently now the tees and greens are all astroturf.

Penmar Golf Course (Venice, CA) - I know I'm picking on the flat 9 hole courses.

Armand Hammer Pony Course (West LA) - Geoff Shackleford has written real positive things about this place, but my take is you could just as easily go to a field and have as much fun as you do at this place.

Monterey Pines (Monterey, CA) -  I rarely played at this course because Old Del Monte close by let junior golfers play for free but when I did I never enjoyed myself.  I will say I went back and played in 2010 and it wasn't a bad place as I previously recalled.  They recently redid the greens, and the conditions of the greens were dramatically improved.

East Potomac Park (Washington DC)- Maybe blasphamy for putting a Travis course on the list but hoping it's not true to original design.  The land is unfortunately flat.  There is trash all around.  The rounds last 6 hours.

Furnace Creek (Death Valley, CA) - How could a golf course in death valley turn out to be anything but a dud.  I have to admit it's pretty impressive most of the course is alive.

Tierra Rejada (Moorpark CA) - Very narrow.  Not a lot to love.  The most elevated tee to a diagonal fairway I have ever seen (something I'm not a big fan off).

Negril Hills Golf Club (Negril Jamaica)- The only course I've played outside of the country.  Caddy was a bit crazy, was not a good experience.

Morro Bay Golf Course (Morro Bay, CA)- I'm having a tough time getting to ten.  I didn't have fun on the course.  Not sure exactly why as there are some decent holes, some elevations changes and pretty views.

All of that being said the first six courses on my list have a purpose in the golf world (and it feels like a bit of a cop out, but I had a real tough time picking ten).  They are generally very cheap and a good place to pick up the game.  Shoot I still play Penmar even though it's on my bottom ten...it's cheap, it's close and I'd rather be on any course than hitting balls on the range (or not playing golf at all).

[Jason Thurman]

Chris, let's take a close look at the definition.

0-A course so contrived and unnatural that it may poison your mind, which I cannot recommend under any circumstances. Reserved for courses that wasted ridiculous sums of money in their construction, and probably shouldn’t have been built in the first place.

I don't know the construction cost, but I know it had to be high based on the incredible severity of the property and your aforementioned cart paths (which were built and then rebuilt after the original ones were too unsafe, which is amazing considering how dangerous they still are. The only course I've ever seen with runaway-cart ramps in place for drivers who can't make some of the hairpin corners going downhill). All of this was paid for with taxpayer dollars. Considering the course gets about 6000 rounds per year (and has never reached 7000), I'd say that was a waste of a ridiculous amount of money.

So the only part left is the "contrived and unnatural" part. If no course is truly unwalkable, Eagle Ridge is as close as it gets. It's golf on top of and around the side of a mountain, with fierce land grading throughout and its construction would have required the clearing of thousands of trees. It's about as unnatural as a golf course can be. Is it contrived? Well, the 4th is a heinous mess and about a dozen other holes can only be described as gimmicks.

I think it fits the definition perfectly. It's admittedly a love/hate course, and I know some people enjoy it. Admittedly, I hate it more than most, but I'm certainly not alone either. Personally, I just don't get that big of a kick out of hitting a ball off a cliff to a 15 yard wide corridor over and over. Of course, the definition of a Doak 0 affords room for people whose minds have been poisoned by a course...

A link to my photo tour: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52291.0.html

[Tom Kelly]

Trent Lock Golf Club, Long Eaton, Nottingham, England.

It'll make Eagle Ridge look like Pine Valley.

[Brad Tufts]

This was harder than I thought….I had to reach back to find some courses from my days before I searched for good GCA in my travels.  I say all of this with the constant reminder that any day on the golf course is better than one in the office!

10.  Bradford CC, MA.  This course was once the ultimate mind-poisoner, with several “iron-iron-iron” par fives and a mind-bending 12th hole with layup areas the size of greens that were near islands in a pond.  New ownership recently has made a good number of changes, and membership numbers are back up.  Unfortunately for me the scars of youth are probably too deep for a return engagement.

9.  Sugarbush GC, VT.  A great ski resort with a poor golf course, courtesy of RTJ.  With recent renovations to the ski and stay facilities, one would think Sugarbush would renovate or blow up their golf course to keep up with Sunday River/Sugarloaf/Jay Peak/Stowe as a summer destination.  The course is too narrow, unkempt at the best of times, and is unwalkable to the point of comedy.

8.  Cyprian Keyes, MA.  The facility that once hosted the NE Golf HOF also counts many good players among its membership.  I think you have to be good to hit a few 10-yd wide hole corridors, and play target, bug-infested golf for 4.5 hours.  Their skillful marketing team will have Boston-area residents believing that CK is a treat, but the truth is far from it.

7.  Townsend Ridge, MA.  Too narrow, too many sharp doglegs, and boring.  One hole on the front nine is 435, uphill, with a 15-yard wide
playing corridor with impenetrable woods on both sides.

6.  Kelley Greens, MA.  An executive 9-holer that once was a neat regulation Wayne Stiles 9 with ocean views.  Several holes were
removed for development, a huge sea wall now blocks the ocean view, and the remaining collection of par threes and short par fours are as tired as can be.  One silver lining?  The course is open all winter if you like playing golf on ground that mimics a Logan runway…

5.  Bridgton Highlands, ME.  This 18 holer with roots at the beginning of the 20th century is boring at its best, and insane at its worst…the 16th hole is a 270-yard par four with a 120-degree dogleg!  This one is a must-miss.

4.  Boca Raton Executive Muni, FL.  I last played this as a 14-yr old visiting a friend in FL.  This course of par 3s and 4s is full of dirt, crap-filled ponds that an alligator wouldn’t even live in.  All surrounded by gazillion $$ homes protected by nets as far as the eye can see.  Awesomely bad.

3.  Cedar Glen, MA.  A little 9-holer in Saugus, MA that is perennially trying to rid itself of the moniker “Seedless Glen.”  The course layout is not horrific, but the conditions are.  The only noteworthy hole is a 210-yard par three with interior OB on both sides!  I once witnessed a pickup truck driving down the center of the fairways at the end of the day picking up the pins.

2.  Waukewan GC, NH.  A shortish homemade 18 near Lake Winnepesaukee with a few nice views of the surrounding countryside that would be great for a hike, not for golf.  Awkward at its best.

1.  Holden Hills, MA.  A ratty 18 that is rough around the edges with a strange collection of holes.  One short par four requires a short iron from the tee to clear a huge tree directly in front of you.  Another par five is about 640 yards for some reason.  The 18th is as hard as a rock, and your ball only stops when it hits a car in the parking lot.  I played a qualifier here in college, and our team decided not to attempt to qualify for a big tournament the following two years to avoid playing the qualifier at HH.

Honorable Mention:  Ponkapoag in Canton, MA.  The property is run by the MDC, and contains two golf courses, each with 9 of the original 18 by Donald Ross.  I believe one nine has been shut down at this point leaving 27 holes, as there is no $$ to spare on the courses, and conditions had deteriorated to the point of being unplayable on that 9.  This is the only golf course I have ever played that contained potholes in the fairways, and the site of the only tournament I have ever played that allowed a player to LCP ANYWHERE, including hazards, on a brilliantly sunny summer day.  Long lampooned in Rick Reilly’s books, Ponkapoag does have great Ross roots and a nice rolling property rivaling anything found in the Boston area.  There were always a few flaws in the routing brought about by drainage and the newfound length now possessed by today’s golfers that created a few strange routing modifications and the abandonment of several tees.  

The USGA was in discussions a few years ago to close the property for 24 months and restore/create a US Open course much in the vein of Bethpage, but the MDC said no to the loss of a two year’s worth of (light) revenue.  4-5 years later, 9 Ross holes are going back to nature, the course still makes no money, and Boston has lost a potential US Open venue with TCC now having a lack of interest in pro events.  A sad story for golf architecture junkies indeed!

[Matthew Petersen]

9. John F. Kennedy Golf Course, Aurora, CO. On this list solely for the 6th hole on one of the nines, which is a par-four that must be played 4-iron, 3-wood and no other way, thanks to the presence of a 70 yard wide gulch that splits the fairway from 240-310 yards out. And you get a lovely view of Interstate 225.

That hole at Kennedy is bad bad bad. I grew up right near the course and worked at the driving range there for one summer.

Over the years, I eventually took to the strategy of hitting driver off the tee, trying to carry the creek. I succeeded a few times, usually failed. But at least if you failed then you could drop right at the creek edge and leave a much shorter third shot in than what you'd have if you laid up off the tee. No trouble around the green so even if I had a creek penalty I knew I would pretty much never make worse than double, and that was easy enough to do after a lay-up anyway.

Not good strategy, and a shame because that creek could have been used so well.

I also knew girls who literally couldn't finish the hole. They played HS tournaments there sometimes and would set up a drop area on the other side of the creek. That's just bad.

[Matthew Rose]

I guess most of these are more mediocre than bad..... They stand out I suppose because I
1) had a bad experience,
2) had one stupid Mickey Mouse hole that makes it hard to forgive the other 17, or
3) I paid a lot of money for something that was really disappointing.

I am actually inspired now to find some of these you guys are suggesting  

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris, let's take a close look at the definition.

0-A course so contrived and unnatural that it may poison your mind, which I cannot recommend under any circumstances. Reserved for courses that wasted ridiculous sums of money in their construction, and probably shouldn’t have been built in the first place.

I don't know the construction cost, but I know it had to be high based on the incredible severity of the property and your aforementioned cart paths (which were built and then rebuilt after the original ones were too unsafe, which is amazing considering how dangerous they still are. The only course I've ever seen with runaway-cart ramps in place for drivers who can't make some of the hairpin corners going downhill). All of this was paid for with taxpayer dollars. Considering the course gets about 6000 rounds per year (and has never reached 7000), I'd say that was a waste of a ridiculous amount of money.

So the only part left is the "contrived and unnatural" part. If no course is truly unwalkable, Eagle Ridge is as close as it gets. It's golf on top of and around the side of a mountain, with fierce land grading throughout and its construction would have required the clearing of thousands of trees. It's about as unnatural as a golf course can be. Is it contrived? Well, the 4th is a heinous mess and about a dozen other holes can only be described as gimmicks.

I think it fits the definition perfectly. It's admittedly a love/hate course, and I know some people enjoy it. Admittedly, I hate it more than most, but I'm certainly not alone either. Personally, I just don't get that big of a kick out of hitting a ball off a cliff to a 15 yard wide corridor over and over. Of course, the definition of a Doak 0 affords room for people whose minds have been poisoned by a course...

A link to my photo tour: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52291.0.html

Well Jason, we will agree to disagree on fitting the definition PERFECTLY,

I don't love the course like some or Doug R, but I don't find it a Doak 0. 

There were several holes there I found quite nice.  The first is the short little par 3 before the 13th.  The second was the par 5 that wraps around the ravine on the left side.  I do not remember the holes number b/c I have only played the course twice.  I know the story of the cart paths, and they have built numerous other courses on as extreme of land and had no problem with constructing them . . . sounds like bad engineering or construction.

I understand what it is like when someone hates a course and can be prone to hyperbole to back up this hate.  Be that as it may, it sounds like you hate Eagle Ridge and I simply do not find it a true Doak 0.  I have read The Confidential Guide and played Eagle Ridge and did not find my mind poisoned by the course.


Chris

[Cory Lewis]

1. The Summit-NLE- Berkeley Springs, WV-Had the worse hole I've ever seen!

2. Sleepy Hollow-Charles town, WV

3. Goose Creek-Leesburg, VA

4. Carper's Valley-NLE- Winchester, VA

5. Cobb's Creek(Olde)-Philadelphia,PA

6. Sea Scape, Nags Head, NC

7. Montclair-dumfries, VA

8. Chesapeake Bay(North East)-North East, MD

9. Bowling Green(North)-Front Royal, VA

10. Ed Oliver-Wilmington, DE

[Matthew Petersen]

1. Crossings at Carlsbad, Carlsbad, CA
This makes the list by virtue of being the place I'd most readily identify as a Doak 0. It's not that the golf is entirely worthless here, but it is cart ball to the extreme. Andthere's just so much ridiculousness that in the end I stood on the 18th green and thought, "If the environmental and other restrictions were such that this was the only golf course they could have built here, then they just shouldn't have built it at all."

2. Eagle's Next, Silverthorn, CO [NLE]
Also edging on that Doak 0 territory, eventually enough people agreed that the place just wasn't worth it and the course shut down. The site is now Raven at Three Peaks, and I understand is a much better layout. Eagle's Nest was a Dick Phelps design on a very severe mountain site with a handful of completely coring holes in the valley balanced against a number of ridiculous holes that tended to play either straight up or straight down the sides of the mountain (most memorable was one hole where the tee shot played downhill some 100 feet to a low area, the hole then made a left turn and played straight back up the hill at an angle that makes at 8th at Spyglass look gentle.

3. Heatherridge, Aurora, CO
Fits with Matthew Rose's logic about the course closest to your home. This course was within walking distance of where I lived from age 5 until I went off to college, and I played it a handful of times at most. It was private, which is absurd (I guess it's since been opened to the public), but we never gave any thought to joining. If it had been public I still would never have played there. Some of the corridors between condos where two holes lie barely should be big enough for one hole. Back tees stretch to all of 6100 yards at a mile of elevation but every hole features OB and/or water, many of them both, so get ready for a steady diet of 5-irons off the tee and wedges into the greens. I have no idea why this is one of the few Colorado courses that Tom played and put in the CG, but his 1 verges on generous.

4. Great Eagle, Surprise, AZ
Sometimes you can judge a course by the sort of real estate built around it. No real estate is the most ideal, but then the home around the likes of Pebble Beach tell you something too. Well, the back nine of this course plays through a trailer park.

5. Arizona Grand, Tempe, AZ (formerly Pointe South Mountain, Phantom Horse, etc)
Probably not a great course when built, but I would guess one with lots of quirk and some fun holes. Then they built the homes around it. The par 5 6th plays sharply uphill with the second shot needing to carry a steep slope that is entirely blind save for a directional pole at the top of the hill. This would be kind of fun if it weren't for a street encroaching on the left, and homes quite near the green on the right. The dogleg left ninth had homes built so tight on the inside of the dogleg (and the outside for that matter), that the hole is barely playable. I trie to hit a 5-iron off the tee and it would have gone through the fairway OB except for being saved by one of the many nets set up to protect the houses. Then there's the long cart ride from 8 green to 9 tee that take you through a residential cul de sac. The resort has also long been tinkering with the start and finish of the course. I don't know how it originally played but when I first saw it, 17 was a drop shot par 3 and 18 a short par 4 to an island green. Now that island is used as the first tee, creating a short blind par 4 first, and the drop shot par 3 is 18. It's a good 5 minutes cart ride through the resort from that green back to the pro shop.

6. John F Kennedy, Denver, CO
Matthew Rose already covered the most egregious hole. The other 17 on the original course are simply bland and squeezed between a freeway and a busy road, and the "new" nine (opened mid-90s, as I recall) is more ineteresting but includes a couple goofy holes and bears zero resemblance to everything else at JFK.

7. Aurora Hills, Aurora, CO
Again, it's greatest sin is simple blandness. That and the 7th hole, a medium-length par 3 where any player whose most common miss with a long iron is left, where any shot hit that way leaves a few breathless moments as you wait to hear if the wayward ball will strike a car on busy Alameda Ave. Then there's the 10th, a par 5 that asks for a drive of no more than 200y before the hole makes a 90 degree turn to the right. A lake guards the entire right side and a canal runs down the left. It's theoretically possible to hit driver over the corner of the lake at the dogleg but you would have to do so with a slice in order to keep it out of the canal on the other side.

8. Starr Pass, Tucson, AZ
Mostly for the newer nine built within the past ten years, and the changes they made to the original holes around the same time. This was the first desert course I ever played. I know they played a round of the Tucson Open here for a few years until the pros whined enough that they moved it, but I liked the original 18. It pains me to put it on this list ... but a few years back they reconfigured some of the holes and built a new 9 that are the exact opposite of how I feel a resort course should play. For a good player, the new holes play pretty easy. Target golf, sure, but short, where a 3 wood and short iron will generally be all that's needed. But that tee shot might require a 180-200yard carry over desert off the tee. No big deal for a good player, but absolute torture for a hacker from the midwest who has never played a desert course. The one time I played the new nine I shot a nice score from the tips while watching a husband and waife on vacation lose multiple balls on every hole. Felt so bad for them. I've never felt the need to go abck. I'd guess they haven't either.

9. Palm Valley (Palms), Litchfield, AZ
I have played a lot of housing development courses that aren't very good but this is the worst to date. Not an interesting hole out there. Worse, what I do remember is most holes seem to have crowned fairways. Artificial mounding that puts every hole in its own bowl may not be ideal, but it's certainly better than crowned holes where every shot not perfectly on line will tend to run off into the desert.

10. The Legacy, Las Vegas, NV
Arthur Hills at his finest and most boring. The only noteworthy thing going on here is the set of tee boxes on the 10th(?) hole--shaped like a diamond, heart, spade, and club. If that's all you have going for you ...

[Jason Thurman]

Chris,

I also enjoyed the 12th hole. The green was a great concept and I'd love to see how it would play at a longer distance. Probably my favorite on the course. I also enjoyed the tee shot at 13, though I think it's a bit of a one-trick hole.

I don't disagree that there are a handful of nice holes, but also some uniquely awful ones. I disliked the overall concept and found it unpleasant to play.

Where would you put it on the Doak Scale?

[Sam Morrow]

Please note that Cory Lewis put Cobbs Creek on his Bottom 10. Well it's flooding and I'm stuck at home, atleast I will have something to read today.........

[Bruce Katona]

Gentleman: I don't need to get to ten when mentioning the follwoin gems:

2. Bear Brook - Fredon, NJ - 18 signature holes.  triple tierred green that run away from you, 600 yard par 5 with 90 degree dogleg with a 2nd shot landing the size of a par 3 green, narrow corridors, rolling terrain, what more could one ask for

1. Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge- 12 miles of cart part, a par 4 with 8 irontee shot followed by a hybrid due to wetlands.  What more can you say.

Winner, winner!