Trump International Golf Links

[Mark Chaplin]

Destination resort?? Where's the hotel??

In April next year the Ailsa course at Turnberry is £120 for non-residents, needless to say they have held an Open or two and are a world top 100 course. Trump Scotland is £195 during the same period, obviously non-resident rate as there isn't anywhere to stay.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Destination resort??
Where's the hotel??

Mark,

You're being ridiculous.
The course just opened......and, many have stated that it opened prematurely, so why would you ask such an obviously stupid question ?
It just demonstrates your bias.
And why didn't you ask the same question about Streamsong ?

In April next year the Ailsa course at Turnberry is £120 for non-residents, needless to say they have held an Open or two and are a world top 100 course.

While that's true, isn't there more competition in the nearby area for Turnberry ?


Trump Scotland is £195 during the same period, obviously non-resident rate as there isn't anywhere to stay.

It's also Trump's first year of operation.
I would imagine that they'll adjust the green fee as the market dictates.

Some feel that the green fees at Pebble Beach are outrageous, but some how they seem able to sustain them.

Time will tell.

But again, why the bitter, negative attitude ?

[Mark Chaplin]

Patrick you mentioned resorts and different fees for residents and I was pointinting out there isn't a resort or residents. If that makes me ridiculous I stick my hands up and agree fact is ridiculous. Hasn't Pebble Beach hosted a few US Opens and has a pedigree as long as your arm? I believe people queue up to play there.

My objection to Mr Trump is the way he has treated the locals. He was startled they wouldn't take his cash and bugger off into the distance. Because of that his people made life very difficult for a few local people and that is simply wrong

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick you mentioned resorts and different fees for residents and I was pointinting out there isn't a resort or residents.

We know the hotel isn't built yet, but that doesn't mean that they haven't created a structure for green fees once it's operational

If that makes me ridiculous I stick my hands up and agree fact is ridiculous.

It does make you ridiculous because you're aware of the plans for a resort hotel and that the hotel isn't operational yet


Hasn't Pebble Beach hosted a few US Opens and has a pedigree as long as your arm? I believe people queue up to play there.
So all courses that haven't hosted Opens and all new course are automatically deemed unworthy by you ?
All those course lacking a "pedigree" are to be dismissed as pretenders to the throne ?
That's rather elitist isn't it ?

My objection to Mr Trump is the way he has treated the locals.

I understand that.
No one has challenged your feelings on that issue.
But, it's over and the golf course is operational and it's in everyone's best interest if the project succeeds.


He was startled they wouldn't take his cash and bugger off into the distance.
Because of that his people made life very difficult for a few local people and that is simply wrong

I'm not familiar with the staffing at the project, but when you say, "his people", are they Scots or aliens whom he moved/transferred to the project site ?

[Paul Gray]

Patrick,

Keep sinking my friend.  I don't believe for one second that you're genuinely questioning my IQ, but you keep throwing the mud. I never like to see a grown man cry but the ridicule you bring on yourself does amuse me.

It can get lonely at times up here on the moral high ground but the view is amazing!  

[Mark Chaplin]

Patrick they are charging a premium greenfee and "structures" maybe in place but they are not yet built. I run a bed and breakfast using your thought process we could charge a premium for a swimming pool and spa. We don't have a pool or spa but could have the drawings available for our guests to look at.

Open courses charge more because there is a massive demand to play the course where one's heroes played.

Three of the more recent privately financed courses in Scotland have gone straight for the jugular with their pricing structures Kingsbarns, Castle Stuart and Trump International. I haven't played any of them as there are more appealing courses locally for half the money.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Don't you think they're counting on the attraction that a brand new course brings ?
Same for Kingsbarn and Castle Stewart ?

And the fact that it's a destination resort course where visitors are already spending good money to get there, ala Pebble Beach, Bandon and others, hence they jack up the price since it's not the type of course that will get repeat play from the visitor the following week or month ?

Look at the interest on this website with Streamsong.

Streamsong's green fees may be considerably lower because they didn't have any acquisition costs for the land and their motive for creating the golf courses differed greatly from Trump's.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Keep sinking my friend.  I don't believe for one second that you're genuinely questioning my IQ, but you keep throwing the mud.

Paul,

Your absurd, reckless analogies speak volumes.
If anyone's image is sinking it's yours.
What intelligent man would write what you wrote ?

I never like to see a grown man cry but the ridicule you bring on yourself does amuse me.

Anyone who wrote what you wrote who thinks that ridicule is directed at anyone other than themselves is either in denial or delusional.
Your written words are an embarrassment.


It can get lonely at times up here on the moral high ground but the view is amazing!  

I'm leaning toward delusional 

[Paul Gray]

Patrick,

Keep sinking my friend.  I don't believe for one second that you're genuinely questioning my IQ, but you keep throwing the mud.

Paul,

Your absurd, reckless analogies speak volumes.
If anyone's image is sinking it's yours. - Really? And yet it's your support base which currently numbers just one.
What intelligent man would write what you wrote ? - I would.

I never like to see a grown man cry but the ridicule you bring on yourself does amuse me.

Anyone who wrote what you wrote who thinks that ridicule is directed at anyone other than themselves is either in denial or delusional. - If I'd known you earlier I would have airmailed over a mirror for Christmas.
Your written words are an embarrassment. - They certainly are to you.


It can get lonely at times up here on the moral high ground but the view is amazing! 

I'm leaning toward delusional  YOU already leant towards delusional a long time ago.    

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Keep sinking my friend.  I don't believe for one second that you're genuinely questioning my IQ, but you keep throwing the mud.

Paul,

Your absurd, reckless analogies speak volumes.

If anyone's image is sinking it's yours. - Really? And yet it's your support base which currently numbers just one.would you care to wager on that ?  Name your bet

What intelligent man would write what you wrote ? - I would.
As I said, "delusional", hence your response doesn't surprise anyone.

I never like to see a grown man cry but the ridicule you bring on yourself does amuse me.


Anyone who wrote what you wrote who thinks that ridicule is directed at anyone other than themselves is either in denial or delusional. - If I'd known you earlier I would have airmailed over a mirror for Christmas.
I can understand how you'd get tired at looking at yourself

Your written words are an embarrassment. - They certainly are to you.
And to legions of others.


It can get lonely at times up here on the moral high ground but the view is amazing!  

I'm leaning toward delusional   YOU already leant towards delusional a long time ago.  
Yes, but Only for a day or two of wild carrying ons, then I quickly reverted to normalcy  
While you my friend are hopelessly mired in it

[Paul Gray]

Patrick,

With the exception of someone doing some admin for you and putting a scanned copy of your passport on here, no one has actively said anything on this thread to defend you since Chris DeNigris on the 13th of this month. Since then there have been no fewer than 104 posts (admittedly many from you) and, again, not a single backing from anyone. I seriously doubt that you are completely friendless, but the tide is only flowing one way. You can stamp your feet and throw your toys out of the pram for as long as you like but it won't change a thing.

I'll be enjoying a little something called Christmas as from now so, all joking aside, I wish you the very merriest of Christmases.

I learnt a long time ago that the moment your foe occupies any more of your time than absolutely necessary they achieve a tiny victory. With this in mind, I do hope you can let this go for a couple of days.   Guess I'll find out in due course.

 

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

With the exception of someone doing some admin for you and putting a scanned copy of your passport on here, no one has actively said anything on this thread to defend you since Chris DeNigris on the 13th of this month. Since then there have been no fewer than 104 posts (admittedly many from you) and, again, not a single backing from anyone.

Paul,

I didn't think that the thread was about me, I thought it was about Trump and the Trump International Golf Links.
Why would I need defending

But, let's examine your statistics.

Whomever claimed that statistics lie or lying with statistics, might want to analyze your paragraph above.

Since Chris's post, only 16 people have posted, including someone who posted my passport, so, we're down to 15 people.
I'm one of those, so without me, 14 people have posted.
Of those 14, I'd say that 10 made neutral posts with regard to Trump's actions/project.

That leaves 4 people, you, Jon W, Mark C and Sean A with contrarian opinions, hardly a referendum.
Between us five, we made 89 posts of the 104 posts you cited.

So, because you and three others disagree with me, your logic dictates that I'm wrong and you're right ?  ? ?

As I indicated, you need to change your computer password as those hackers are at it again..



I seriously doubt that you are completely friendless, but the tide is only flowing one way. You can stamp your feet and throw your toys out of the pram for as long as you like but it won't change a thing.

Only four guys are in opposition ?  And, Sean's post was more informative based rather than position oriented.
So, as tides go, I think I can withstand this one.

I'll be enjoying a little something called Christmas as from now so, all joking aside, I wish you the very merriest of Christmases.

By the way, the same to you and everyone else, have a Merry Christmas with your family and friends.

I learnt a long time ago that the moment your foe occupies any more of your time than absolutely necessary they achieve a tiny victory.
With this in mind, I do hope you can let this go for a couple of days.   Guess I'll find out in due course.

As I type, there's a knock at my door.  My Grandson is here, so I'm off too.

My present to you this Christmas is a new password:   THGIRSTAP

Enjoy the holiday

[Chris Kane]

Since Chris's post, only 16 people have posted, including someone who posted my passport, so, we're down to 15 people.
I'm one of those, so without me, 14 people have posted.
Of those 14, I'd say that 10 made neutral posts with regard to Trump's actions/project.

That leaves 4 people, you, Jon W, Mark C and Sean A with contrarian opinions, hardly a referendum.
Between us five, we made 89 posts of the 104 posts you cited.

Patrick, how unlike you to change the facts to suit your position. 
How is my post which you interpreted as alleging a conspiracy at the Daily Mail sixty years ago to protect you, a neutral post? 

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you and your family - I look forward to resuming my occasional role of holding you to account in 2013!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Since Chris's post, only 16 people have posted, including someone who posted my passport, so, we're down to 15 people.
I'm one of those, so without me, 14 people have posted.
Of those 14, I'd say that 10 made neutral posts with regard to Trump's actions/project.

That leaves 4 people, you, Jon W, Mark C and Sean A with contrarian opinions, hardly a referendum.
Between us five, we made 89 posts of the 104 posts you cited.

Patrick, how unlike you to change the facts to suit your position. 
How is my post which you interpreted as alleging a conspiracy at the Daily Mail sixty years ago to protect you, a neutral post? 

Chris,

Try to read my posts more carefully.
Please note, and I quote.[/b]
Quote: of those 14, I'd say that 10 made neutral posts with regard to Trump's action/project"

[/size] [/i][/u]

What part of " with regard to TRUMP'S PROJECT" didn't you understand


Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you and your family - I look forward to resuming my occasional role of holding you to account in 2013!

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Healthy New Year to you and your family...... And I look forward to helping you with your reading comprehension in 2013 and beyond
[/quote]

[Paul Gray]

Patrick,

Nice effort. If nothing else I suppose I do have to applaud your tenacity. Unfortunately, not for the first time, your grammar went a little astray and you missed out an apostrophe. Let me explain:

You sent me the suggested new password of THGIRSTAP
Clearly that’s an anagram of PATS RIGHT
What you needed of course was an anagram of PAT’S RIGHT
Personally I would have gone with  G’HITSTRAP

As it's the season of good will and all that I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you decided to leave the apostrophe out as you felt it might give the game away.

Since I really have nothing else to add at this point it's my intention to leave the floor for others to have their say for a while. There's always the strong possibility that you'll insult either me or some other unfortunate individual and I'll feel compelled to jump back in but, for now at least, all the best.

PS: To you and all others reading this post, I sincerely hope one and all had wonderful Christmases.

[Ivan Morris]

There is nothing about a golf course that pisses me off more than when the rough swallows my 'slightly-errant' golf balls.  The next biggest aggravation is long, uphill approach shots (say, 190-yards plus) to blind, green surfaces.   

[Brian_Ewen]

There is nothing about a golf course that pisses me off more than when the rough swallows my 'slightly-errant' golf balls.  The next biggest aggravation is long, uphill approach shots (say, 190-yards plus) to blind, green surfaces.   

Ivan
And these was the two things that annoyed you most about Trump International Golf Links ?

[Mark Pearce]

Paul, like many your focus is misguided.  You join the ranks of those who miss the mark regarding the recent tragic event in Newtown.
The primary focus should be on "mental illness" not the instrument of destruction.
On the same day a deranged man attacked and stabbed 22 children at a school in China.
Should China ban all knives or any sharp instrument.

Patrick,

That Chinese incident has been remarked upon.  Remind me, how many people died?

Please tell me that even you don't agree with the NRA's absurd, even obscene, suggestion that the best way to prevent these massacres is to have an armed guard in every school?

[Brian_Ewen]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/11-000-sign-petition-for-inquiry-into-trump-project-1-2829353

11,000 sign petition for inquiry into Trump project
Published on Monday 11 March 2013
A PETITION calling for a public inquiry into the handling of Donald Trump’s controversial golf project on the North Sea coast has attracted more than 11,000 signatures, exceeding its organisers’ expectations.

David Milne, an opponent of the scheme at Menie, north of Aberdeen, said he had hoped for 2,000 signatures. The petition is being lodged at the Scottish Parliament today, two weeks earlier than planned.

Mr Milne said: “There’s clearly a growing appetite to get to the bottom of this fiasco, and to make sure no other community anywhere in Scotland ever has to face down the combination of a bullying developer and officials determined to see them get their way.

“This is not a party political matter – it’s a systematic failure. At Holyrood and locally we have seen successive administrations of various colours cosy up to Mr Trump.

“It is now up to the MSPs who sit on the Public Petitions Committee to choose: do they want to find out what went wrong and ensure it never does again, or do they want to guarantee the whole story is never even told.

“I am confident that they will listen to the public and do the right thing, and I look forward to having an opportunity to discuss these issues with them in person.”

Mr Milne, a 48-year-old independent health and safety consultant who lives near Trump’s golf complex, claims that some bodies, including Aberdeenshire Council and the Scottish Government, were involved in breaches of planning regulations before Mr Trump was given the green light to construct his links course.

If Mr Milne’s petition is successful, it would see a comprehensive inquiry established into local and national government involvement with the Trump organisation. The timescale would cover former first minister Jack McConnell’s Labour-led Scottish Executive, Alex Salmond’s SNP government and Aberdeenshire Council, which was controlled at the time by Liberal Democrats.

Earlier he said: “We have had to be patient to get to this stage, but we are calling for a full public inquiry into what happened and we want the full facts to emerge. Now, we are hoping that many other Scots will share our concerns over the background to how Trump was ­allowed to build this course.”

The planning application for the golf complex was initially rejected by a local authority committee, causing turmoil among councillors, and was controversially called in by the Scottish Government.
The First Minister became MSP for the area in 2007. The plan was subsequently rubber-stamped by the council, then approved by Finance Secretary John Swinney in November 2008.

No-one from the Trump organisation responded to phone calls last night. However, last month Sarah Malone, the executive vice-president of Trump International, spoke about the petition.

She said: “The project has ­already gone through years of scrutiny and debate during a lengthy planning process, including a public inquiry in the full media spotlight. Mr Milne needs to move on. He attempted this before and it failed, because there is no basis for it.

“The championship course is now established and drawing thousands of golfers from around the world and creating business opportunities and much-needed jobs.”

Trump is now locked in a heated battle to stop an offshore wind farm being built within sight of his golf course.

A planning application for the wind farm was submitted to Marine Scotland – which manages Scotland’s seas – in August 2011 for the development just over a mile away from Trump’s golf resort at Menie.

Trump said £100 million hotel ­development is on hold until the decision on whether the nearby 11-turbine offshore wind farm proposal is approved is made.

[Paul Gray]

Whatever side of the fence you sit on, you have to admire the persistence of the Scottish.

I can only assume Trump's arrogance allowed him to think the Scots would just go away. Does he know nothing of the nation's history?

[Brian_Ewen]

Trump said £100 million hotel ­development is on hold until the decision on whether the nearby 11-turbine offshore wind farm proposal is approved is made.

Funny, how that hotel has gone from costing £280 million to suddenly £100 !

[Ally Mcintosh]

Never, ever, trust any press reports to do with budgets for large construction projects.There are too many nuances with the numbers and it is too easy to spin things any which way.

I've spent my whole working career watching budgets for projects I'm working on being misrepresented in order to create an angle.

[Sean_A]

Never, ever, trust any press reports to do with budgets for large construction projects.There are too many nuances with the numbers and it is too easy to spin things any which way.

I've spent my whole working career watching budgets for projects I'm working on being misrepresented in order to create an angle.

Ally - the financial and employment figures for the project was always a joke.  I can only surmise that nobody bothered to check into the numbers because they knew they were wildly off.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Never, ever, trust any press reports to do with budgets for large construction projects.There are too many nuances with the numbers and it is too easy to spin things any which way.

I've spent my whole working career watching budgets for projects I'm working on being misrepresented in order to create an angle.

That's because the previously-discussed 400 room hotel is now to be a hundred and odd.

[Thomas Dai]

The Trump organisation has been opposing the offshore windfarm development along the lines of 'it'll spoil the view the hotel". Does this mean that the windfarm isn't going ahead or has Trump changed his tune a bit?

All the best.