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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #775 on: March 27, 2015, 03:43:22 PM »
Gotta hand it to The Donald, there aren't many people who could simultaneously embody much of what's great in the world, and just as much of what is wrong.

That's not easy to pull off. There's probably a couple on this site who could do it, but maybe no one else... :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #776 on: March 27, 2015, 04:45:24 PM »
Was it ever in any doubt? Scan back through this thread and there were a number of us that knew just where this was going. It's all here on record.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #777 on: April 11, 2015, 11:55:09 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:39:01 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #778 on: April 12, 2015, 05:26:19 PM »
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/donald-trumps-first-scots-golf-5504305

Donald Trump's first Scots golf club loses £3.5million in two years
12 April 2015

NEWLY-PUBLISHED accounts show Donald Trump’s first Scots golf course lost £3.5million in two years.

The figures published by a national newspaper reveals shortfalls of £1.7million in 2012 and £1.8million in 2013 for the Menie Estate resort in Balmedie, Aberdeenshire.

They also reveal only 66 people worked there, though the billionaire claimed the Trump Interfarm national Golf Links would create 800 jobs.

Three years ago Trump, 68 — who also owns Turnberry in Ayrshire — threatened to axe the project over plans for a windfarm off the coast, but subsequently lodged plans to build 850 houses.

The Trump Organisation said: “It’s a great resort that continues to attract global visitors.”

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #779 on: April 12, 2015, 05:51:39 PM »
Brian, I don't know if Kevin would be desperately happy at such a blatant breach of his copyrights....
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #780 on: April 13, 2015, 02:49:53 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:39:18 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #781 on: April 13, 2015, 03:11:29 AM »
You should have linked to them and left it at that. To reproduce all those pics is a pretty egregious copyright theft, made worse by the fact that Kevin is a pro photographer who makes his living from his images.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #782 on: April 13, 2015, 03:29:45 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:39:28 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #783 on: April 13, 2015, 03:33:42 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:39:41 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #784 on: April 13, 2015, 03:49:11 AM »
You should have linked to them and left it at that. To reproduce all those pics is a pretty egregious copyright theft, made worse by the fact that Kevin is a pro photographer who makes his living from his images.

I have linked to them  ???



... And left it at that
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #785 on: April 13, 2015, 03:52:07 AM »
.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:39:53 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #786 on: April 13, 2015, 04:12:38 AM »
Like Kevin, I earn my living thanks to the existence of intellectual property laws. That makes me quite sensitive to signs they are being ignored. You do not have the right to reproduce these images. No-one is going to stop you doing so, but please consider the rights of the copyright owner in future.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #787 on: April 13, 2015, 04:18:00 AM »
Adam, I really think you could learn a few things from Mr. Murray.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #788 on: April 13, 2015, 08:59:44 AM »
Brian,

Adam is right here.  Those photos are embedded on the site rather than merely linked,  No-one is going to visit the photographer's site to view them and their reproduction on GCA is, technically, an infringement of copyright in them unless the copyright owner has agreed to that reproduction.  It is one of the worst legal misconnceptions that simply because something is posted on the internet anybody is free to copy it, that simply isn't true.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #789 on: April 13, 2015, 02:54:17 PM »
Brian,

Adam is right here.  Those photos are embedded on the site rather than merely linked,  No-one is going to visit the photographer's site to view them and their reproduction on GCA is, technically, an infringement of copyright in them unless the copyright owner has agreed to that reproduction.  It is one of the worst legal misconnceptions that simply because something is posted on the internet anybody is free to copy it, that simply isn't true.

Mark,

whilst you maybe technically correct there is also a responsibility for the owner of the copyright to take reasonable precautions to protect it. By not blocking the ability of visitors to his website from simply linking his work so as to show it on other site it has to be the assumption that Mr. Murray was happy to share his photos with any visitor to his site.


Jon

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #790 on: April 13, 2015, 05:31:25 PM »
Jon,

Why?  Do you assume you can copy books because you can borrow them from a library?

Mark
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #791 on: April 13, 2015, 10:40:46 PM »
Copyright is what my wife does.

If the original was password protected - then that is theft.

If its on a site where it can be "right clicked and uploaded" then it is not PROVIDING the person does not make money from its use.

It is considered "bad form" not to credit "each and every photo" with the person's name.

A link to their web site is best practices.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 10:50:05 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #792 on: April 13, 2015, 10:58:23 PM »
Quite a few years back a professional golf writer (ie. paid) took sections of one of my blogs and used them in an article with a "light" re-write.
There is a copyright note on my blog, but essentially I know that anything posted on a blog becomes free game.
My issue was not the use, but the fact it was done by a professional without providing credit and quotes.

You know as an author or artist that unless you actively protect your work, once posted, the modern internet culture is to take and use without asking.
I believe if you don't want that, you need to password protect or avoid the medium.


I had someone ask if they could copy my blog to read it in book form rather than online.
I consented, but also reminded them that there was nothing I could do to stop them.
It was cultural, he would not have taken it if I said no.
I appreciated the "ask," but even more the fact that intellectual rights matter to him.


I pay for music and books on principal.

With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #793 on: April 13, 2015, 11:00:05 PM »
repeated post
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 07:58:38 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #794 on: April 14, 2015, 12:16:09 AM »
Lot of misinformation here. The photos are copyrighted by the photographer. There is no question about that. The issue is whether the posting of the photos here constitutes fair use. Attribution is irrelevant - it's either fair use (an exception to the copyright) or it's not, and if it's not, attribution isn't necessary (though it's customarily a nice thing to do). Equally irrelevant is the fact that the photographer posted the photos online, or whether he protected them with a password or a "right click" shield.

I am a lawyer, so paradoxically, I'm essentially prohibited from providing legal advice here (and so none of this should be considered as such). But I will say that my copyright in the images I post on this site is not destroyed or diminished by virtue of my sharing those images online, and I'd have recourse against someone taking or using those images for a purpose other than one covered by fair use. I might decline to avail myself of that recourse (I'm not a pro photographer, so there isn't a great deal of incentive for me in that), but that doesn't mean I don't have that right.

Ethics and Internet "best practices" aside, fair use is what matters here. Nothing else. As to whether the above use is "fair use," I leave to others to decide.

Gorgeous photos, by the way. Kudos to the photographer.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 12:21:00 AM by Jon Cavalier »
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #795 on: April 14, 2015, 03:44:19 AM »
Jon,

Why?  Do you assume you can copy books because you can borrow them from a library?

Mark

Mark,

I think the answer is already given below. But, is a link to the original a copy? If the original were taken down would not the image on this site would disappear? Are you not therefore looking at the original and not a copy? If it is the original then it has not been copied. Sort of reading a library book by webcam maybe?

Of course all academical though.

Jon

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #796 on: April 14, 2015, 04:04:12 AM »
Jon,

You are right.  A much better question is whether you'd feel free to cut and paste an entire article from, say, a newspaper website.  I know some people think that's fair game but it is most certainly copyright infringement.  Strictly what Brian has done isn't linking.  That is when you simply post a hyperlink, which, when clicked on, takes you to the host site.

Mark
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #797 on: April 14, 2015, 06:16:00 AM »
Jon,

You are right.  A much better question is whether you'd feel free to cut and paste an entire article from, say, a newspaper website.  I know some people think that's fair game but it is most certainly copyright infringement.  Strictly what Brian has done isn't linking.  That is when you simply post a hyperlink, which, when clicked on, takes you to the host site.

Mark

I am not top of the class in the computer tech I'm afraid Mark so I guess your description of hyperlink is what I was thinking of. Protecting copyright on the net is going to be big problem going forward IMO.

Jon

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #798 on: April 22, 2015, 08:36:10 AM »
As we're having Trump week on GCA

This will have more effect on future pans than any amount of Golf news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11553769/BP-sees-massive-shock-for-North-Sea-as-oil-glut-deepens.html
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #799 on: April 22, 2015, 02:16:13 PM »
As we're having Trump week on GCA

This will have more effect on future pans than any amount of Golf news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11553769/BP-sees-massive-shock-for-North-Sea-as-oil-glut-deepens.html

Tony,

Are you thinking Scotland will have to triple the number of offshore wind turbines to make up for the lack of north sea oil ;D

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