Trump International Golf Links

[Thomas Dai]

Given recents happenings is Trumps potential second course just north of Aberdeen now likely to be in doubt?
Atb

[Adam Lawrence]

Given recents happenings is Trumps potential second course just north of Aberdeen now likely to be in doubt?
Atb

I think it has always been in doubt. He has planning permission, but that doesn't mean he was ever likely to build it. The resort is shelling money like crazy, why would you add more guaranteed loss-making capacity?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Given recents happenings is Trumps potential second course just north of Aberdeen now likely to be in doubt?
Atb

I think it has always been in doubt. He has planning permission, but that doesn't mean he was ever likely to build it. The resort is shelling money like crazy, why would you add more guaranteed loss-making capacity?

I dont think anyone doubts that the Trump Org - deep in hospitality and resorts  - is not hemorrhaging financially. From Doonbeg to Turnberry to Aberdeen then to Doral, TTO spent over $100M in the past 10 years. (Trump claims higher, of course.)


My predictions:


1. NO new capital will back his efforts for a new course at Aberdeen.


2. In fact, the GBI properties will be the first to be unloaded as Trump knows a British Open is off the table now. He will cut and run with indignation and insults. TTO will need cash and all 3 properties are upside down and, in light of recent events, they will not have a positive growth trajectory as the market for radical right-wing golfers is not promising.... [size=78%] [/size][/size]Plus, Russians really dont play...;p-) And since Boris basically publically gave the finger to Trump (along with the R&A) on Friday, there is more rationale for Trump to "pull stumps" and retreat from Europe altogether.[size=78%]


General consensus among my right-wing pals in exec positions in the golf business is that Trump is more agitated over losing the PGA and the possibility of an Open Championship than he is about losing his Twitter account.


If he can't have the Open at Turnberry (or anything at Aberdeen), then he will use that as an excuse to sell. Those properties are YEARS away from even generating 10% "ebitda margins" and he will need to get liquid in the next few years.

[Niall C]

Ian


In fairness (and I don't know why I'm being fair to Trump) it's a lot more than just right wing golfers who play his Scottish courses however clearly there aren't enough of them. As for the Open, the R&A's position isn't really anything new but it's just that it has now become public. If he didn't already know that he wasn't getting the Open then I think he was deluding himself.


Niall

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian


In fairness (and I don't know why I'm being fair to Trump) it's a lot more than just right wing golfers who play his Scottish courses however clearly there aren't enough of them. As for the Open, the R&A's position isn't really anything new but it's just that it has now become public. If he didn't already know that he wasn't getting the Open then I think he was deluding himself.


Niall

Niall...just curious if you know what " " means...?


I really dont care who plays his courses. I will not.
Just happy I played Turnberry 6 times before he put his golden stain on it. Fortunately, it can be washed off.


Trump will leave office in disgrace due to his own mental illnesses and he will have erased any positive attributes of his legacy by letting his ego and insecurities dictate his comportment.


Not so great for a brand based on luxury.


My bet is he sells these luxury "elite" assets" and focuses on mid-tier hotels in the US red states like his "Scion" brand of down-market hotels.

[cary lichtenstein]

House of Cards

[John Crowley]

.

[Sean_A]

Last I heard Trump had $billion debt against $3billion assets. Even if his assets take a hit in value he has options 👀.

Happy Hockey

[Mark Pearce]

Last I heard Trump had $billion debt against $3billion assets. Even if his assets take a hit in value he has options 👀.

Happy Hockey

Interesting.  Source?

[Sean_A]

Last I heard Trump had $billion debt against $3billion assets. Even if his assets take a hit in value he has options .

Happy Hockey

Interesting.  Source?

I think it was Forbes in the spring. But there was another source which listed his specific debts and loan repayment dates. I don't recall what that source was, but it tallied to just over $1billion.

I haven't followed this issue since, so his assets may be devalued now because of Covid. Though I believe at the time his assets had already taken a $1billion shave due to Covid 👀.

Happy Hockey

[Ally Mcintosh]

I see this course has moved from revetted sod walls to frilly edged cookie cutters.


How did this happen and who is responsible?

[Niall C]

Ally


Are you saying they have rebuilt bunkers or at least bunkers faces or is that they have just let the grass grow on top ?


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Rebuilt in the photos I just saw, Niall.


I saw a picture of 9 fairway (frilly), 18 (all the numerous bunkers frilly) and 17 green (still sod wall).

[David Jones]

Rebuilt in the photos I just saw, Niall.


I saw a picture of 9 fairway (frilly), 18 (all the numerous bunkers frilly) and 17 green (still sod wall).

I played there for the first time in December so can’t say whether they’ve changed or not Ally but generally they were revetted around the green with ‘frilly’ on the fairway. I know the mix isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but it didn’t offend me. I am going to make it this week’s mission to work out how to post photos here and will share some. Hopefully.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks David,


Certainly they were all revetted when the course opened but no idea how long they’ve been changed. Or who was behind the change.


Ally


EDIT: I hear through IM that it was most likely driven by a reduction in operating costs and was primarily in-house back in 2019.

[Niall C]

I've played it once a number of years ago and seem to recall that they were all revetted and indeed in the Hawtree fashion all were round pots. In rebuilding the bunkers presumably the faces are shallower so that recovery is easier ?


Niall

[Pete_Pittock]

In that case it is much easier for the owner to step into (and climb out of) them.

[Niall C]

Pete


From what I hear has forecaddies who do all that sort of thing for him.


Niall

[David Jones]

Here goes on the photo upload attempt. Thanks to the Scott Warren post for the help!


You can see frilly bunkers in evidence further out from the green from December. Would be interested to see any 'before' pictures.

[Bryan Izatt]

Here's a before of the 1st hole along with David's after picture.












And, here is a before and after of the 18th from the tee.  Although not clear in the photos they appear to have grassed over 4 of the chaotic 18 bunkers on the hole - two short right of the green, one out of play far right of the green, and the one behind the green.  Maybe they heard the noise from our discussions 8 years ago. 

[David Jones]

Here's a before of the 1st hole along with David's after picture.

Good work Bryan! That illustrates it really nicely.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Looks like it suits the 1st hole much better.


Might have been an idea to try and build some variety of size in to the 18th.


And still not convinced by the all frilly / all sod wall split depending on fairway or greenside but that’s more to do with other courses. Split may not be quite as stark here.

[Niall C]

I'd forgotten how ridiculous the 18th looked standing on the tee. Not sure if the new look bunkers are an improvement in style but they certainly appear to be easier to make a bit of yardage out of. I think one of the problems with the bunkering at Balmedie, and this would be the case irrespective of the style, is the scale of them. A lot of them appear fairly insignificant due to the scale of the dunes and surrounding landscape.


Niall

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/2155504/pensioner-who-mounted-legal-challenge-against-donald-trumps-north-east-golf-resort-and-starred-in-youve-been-trumped-dies/


‘Resilient and determined’ pensioner who fought Donald Trump’s north-east golf development dies at 96
April 21 2021



A pensioner who battled Donald Trump’s controversial plans for a multi-million-pound golf resort in Aberdeenshire has died.

Molly Forbes was among the residents faced with eviction as Mr Trump pushed on with the resort at Menie, near Balmedie.

The US businessman even referred to her son Michael’s home as a “slum”.

The 96-year-old went on to feature in the 2011 film You’ve Been Trumped and its 2016 sequel, You’ve Been Trumped Too by Angus director Anthony Baxter.

She was loudly outspoken against the real estate mogul both before and during his time as president, warning Americans of the danger he posed as a leader.

It is understood that she died peacefully in a north-east nursing home on April 11.

Her death was announced on twitter by both her close friend Alicia Bruce and the director of You’ve Been Trumped Anthony Baxter.

Ms Bruce said: “My friend and collaborator Molly Forbes passed away peacefully in Aberdeen on Sunday April 11.

“A private service was held for her yesterday on what what would have been Molly’s 97th birthday.

“She stood dignified in the shadow of Donald Trump’s bullying, harassment and threats of compulsory purchase order from 2006.”

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.alternet.org/2021/06/trump-business-losses/


Trump's Scottish golf clubs suffer $40 million loss after failing to incorporate basic financial practice
Meaghan Ellis June 12, 2021

Former President Donald Trump's international golf clubs are at a critical point of suffering due to substantial losses of more than $40 million. According to Business Insider, the losses are so crippling the Trump Organization has been forced to "rely on loans from various Trump-owned vehicles in the United States just to stay afloat."

However, experts have reason to believe the organization's losses may be far greater than what is being publicly reported. So what is the reason for the losses? According to experts, it could be the result of Trump's failure to incorporate a "very basic financial practice." The publication reports that it appears Trump failed to "hedge" the loans created for his Scottish golf clubs.

The Scottish properties, the Turnberry near Glasgow and the Trump Golf Links International in Aberdeenshire, have suffered staggering losses year after year since the former president purchased them. In fact, the publication notes that both luxury properties now require loans from Trump and other United States-owned entities just to stay above water.

According to the December filing for the UK Companies House accounts, Golf Recreation Scotland, the parent company for Turnberry, now owes Trump a total of £113,425,000 (which equates to approximately $160,000,000 in USD.) But there is a major problem with those loans and likely one that is the result of Trump failing at a very basic business practice.

Per the publication, depreciation of British pound value will impact the overall worth of the loans he previously issued:

"The problem is that Trump appears to have created those loans in British pound sterling — as evidenced by the fact they are all displayed as sterling loans on Companies House."

Unfortunately for Trump, the British pound has declined significantly in value against the dollar in the period since Trump started issuing loans to his golf courses.

That means that, when and if those loans are eventually repaid to Trump in his native dollar currency, they are going to be worth considerably less than when he issued them.

Stephen Clapham, an investment analyst, weighed in with an explanation of hedging and why it is critical where currencies are concerned. "Hedging is what every business does unless there's a specific reason you can't do it — for example, you're investing in [...] somewhere where the capital markets aren't developed enough to allow you to hedge the currency," Clapham told Insider.

Clapham also noted that the basic blunder also raises questions about Trump's professional judgment. "The most likely explanation is that Trump has made this loan and incurred a significant loss," Clapham said. "It's the simplest explanation and probably the most likely."