Do we really know what golfers want?

[JMEvensky]

Dan - that's a good question/observation, and well worth pondering. (The fault does indeed lie with myself.) I think, though, that Jeff raises the right counter-point.  If golf is somehow to give us a brief respite from the strivings of life, or at least invite us to consider such a respite, wouldn't a course that encourages participation instead of testing more likely to provide such an invitation?

Peter

I think I agree with Dan Kelly--the golf course itself is secondary to the actual playing of golf.That,to me,is where the respite is.

If JB builds a transcendent golf course,it might make my respite more enjoyable than a run-of-the-mill golf course.But,I'm going to enjoy playing golf if I have to play in the middle of a parking lot.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Maybe the best possible golf course, the most transcendent, is the one that allows golfers a glimmer, a taste, an opening to this state of grace, one in which we pause from our endless striving and simply be present, moment by moment, to the splendour of which we are part. Actually, skip the "maybe" part -- if I try to imagine "the best possible golf course", that is precisely the course I'd imagine. And I think many golfers might same the same.

Peter --

Seems to me that is possible on any course, anywhere -- even a Doak Zero -- if we would just suspend our "endless striving" for a transcendent course.

That particular endless striving is what we ought to transcend -- no?

The fault, dear Peter, is not in our courses, but in ourselves.

Dan

Dan,
I don't buy it. Interesting golf courses make it easier to get lost within the game.

Do you like to read? Is it the reading that is fun in and of itself, or do you like reading something interesting?

Food-is it just eating, or do new and different tastes in different combinations make it more interesting?

Hiking-are some trails more interesting then others? Or is it just putting one foot in front of the other that makes it something we want to do.

I don't think we are always striving for something transcendent, but I think we are striving to get away and enjoy ourselves when we play golf. I realize some people only enjoy hitting the ball, that to them any course will do. But that's not most of us, IMO.

[Dan Kelly]

Maybe the best possible golf course, the most transcendent, is the one that allows golfers a glimmer, a taste, an opening to this state of grace, one in which we pause from our endless striving and simply be present, moment by moment, to the splendour of which we are part. Actually, skip the "maybe" part -- if I try to imagine "the best possible golf course", that is precisely the course I'd imagine. And I think many golfers might same the same.

Peter --

Seems to me that is possible on any course, anywhere -- even a Doak Zero -- if we would just suspend our "endless striving" for a transcendent course.

That particular endless striving is what we ought to transcend -- no?

The fault, dear Peter, is not in our courses, but in ourselves.

Dan

Dan,
I don't buy it. Interesting golf courses make it easier to get lost within the game.

Do you like to read? Is it the reading that is fun in and of itself, or do you like reading something interesting?

Food-is it just eating, or do new and different tastes in different combinations make it more interesting?

Hiking-are some trails more interesting then others? Or is it just putting one foot in front of the other that makes it something we want to do.

I don't think we are always striving for something transcendent, but I think we are striving to get away and enjoy ourselves when we play golf. I realize some people only enjoy hitting the ball, that to them any course will do. But that's not most of us, IMO.

Don --

I completely agree with you (and Jeff, and Peter)! As anyone who knows me at all will attest, I am surely not saying that "any course will do"!

I was attempting to say this (along the lines of Rihc Goodale observing that golf holes aren't strategic; golfers are):

If the goal is to be the golfer Wethered portrays, the course -- no matter how splendid -- is not going to make it happen. Only the golfer can make it happen. And the golfer who can make it happen can make it happen almost anywhere.

Obviously, it's easier to achieve on well-crafted courses, in fine surroundings -- but well-crafted courses in fine surroundings are not sufficient to give many of us a "care-free spirit."

And I think the sort of "bucket list/check another off" approach to golf courses -- an approach many or most of us here fall victim to -- is not conducive to the achievement of Wethered's "care-free spirit."

I hope that's clearer.

Dan

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

I might have missed the correct answer but Tom D's quoted passage comes from "The Perfect Golfer"  by H. N. Wetherered.

Cheers Colin

[Colin Macqueen]

Acchh, stupid me.  Tom answered his own question! But it is a terrific passage.

Colin

[Carl Rogers]

If I was in the industry, I would also ask myself what do I want?  And does that have anything in common with what "Golfers" want?

Is the corollary thread titled "What do I want" needed?

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

This perfervid Scot having calmed himself (after his excitement in having recognised where a quote came from!) and read the whole thread is delighted with the way that the thread has developed.
I really enjoy golf because it forces me to be "in the moment", it dictates that I calm myself in preparation for any given shot and "in between times", to quote the great Shivas Irons. I could also play golf in a barren waste, as JME alludes to because of the thrill of the flight of the ball, but whacking the ball around more natural terrain definitely enhances the experience. So what I want out on the green is a bit of peace and quiet, the odd bit of reflection (not my normal state of whirling mind!) which I think golf architects can aid in when they ply their trade well.

I think I'll pin Peter Pallotta's response #43 on the back of my golf locker door! Will this help me to get in the "now"?

Cheers Colin

[Mac Plumart]

In the end, I believe we all want different things.  And many of us want differing experiences from different courses.  This is what makes golf a unique game...the playing field differs from place to place.

I belong to a course close to my house.  I like it for a few different reasons.  It is interesting and fun to me.  BUT, I can get there in 15 minutes.  This is one of the biggest reasons I'm a member at this course.

Another course I'm a member of I have to travel all day to get to.  BUT when I get there I see things and experience golf in a manner in which I can't anywhere else.  It is vast, extreme, fun, and at times over the top.  Would I want to play there day in and day out?  Probably not.  But for that few times I year I get to go there, it is mind blowing because it is so unique and thrilling.

I belong to another course near where my parents and in-laws live.  It has that amazing peaceful feel to it and interesting golf.  But, again, it is close to where I'm going to be many times a year.


Now, having said all that, I will travel to play other courses.  But they have to bring something to the table I can't get within my normal rotation of courses.

I think we want convenience for our local game...and something unique when we travel.   

[Connor Dougherty]

Someone had said what in my thread on order and chaos that "golfers want to be Jesus." I think that's just it. Most golfers don't have an understanding of what makes golf courses interesting and great. There's definitely qualities that play into what golfers want (beauty, conditioning, dare I say strategy!) but ultimately, it comes down to how well we play. My high school golf coach praised TPC Sawgrass, and claimed it was one of his favorite courses. When I asked why, he just said that it "fit my eye." He had no explanation otherwise, nothing had to do with its beauty or its strategy. But he shot 72, at an older age, and for that, it's one of his favorite courses.

The Old Course is my favorite course in the world for so many reasons. But it would be foolish of me to say that part of it didn't have to do with hitting a 3 wood on #5 from 249 yards in the fescue, then spending 5 minutes looking for it only to find the ball in the hole for a 2. I don't think I'll ever experience something as thrilling as that. That feeling is all the average golfer wants.