[Wayne_Kozun]

Anyone (like perhaps Mr Doak) know the status of the new holes at The Renaissance Club?  Are they open yet, and if not what is the ETA?

[Simon Holt]

Hi Wayne,

The holes are coming along really well.  We have had our wettest summer on record but it has also been fairly warm; this makes for brutal rough at all the East Lothian courses but ideal growing conditions for our new holes.

At the moment the greens are being cut at 6mm with the existing greens at 4mm.  We are hesitant to open them too soon as they will be some way behind the conditioning of the rest of the course.  I imagine we will have some limited play next year for things like our Member Guest and around the Open at Muirfield in July. 

The opening will no doubt coincide with the opening of the clubhouse in Spring 2013.  Everything at the club is going great guns.  2011 was a very difficult year in terms of picking up new members but already we are off to a flyer this year; more importantly we have only lost 4 members since we opened in 2008 with no one on the resignation list at present.  Member retention is very important in this market especially with our unusual business model for a Scottish club.

If someone can kindly post some pictures then I will email them some new ones.  There are some great pictures of the holes under construction on our website.  http://www.trcaa.com/the_course/the_new_holes/  along with some words from George Peper.

Thanks,

Simon

[George Pazin]

Photo of the new 10th from Simon. He said more pics will follow next week, bug him, not me!

[Wayne_Kozun]

Thanks Simon - I did see the info on the website but I wasn't sure whether that information was up to date.  I played TRC a little under three years ago and quite enjoyed it, I hope to be back in the near future.

[Ben Jarvis]

The new holes at the Renassaince Club will really give that place a "wow factor". I was lucky enough to play RC in June and Simon provided some great insight into whats happening here. I took a few photos but only have one on file at the moment, and is a little similar to the one above, albeit closer to the tee box.

From memory, and correct me if I'm wrong Simon, this hole when played downwind, will really tempt the longer hitter to have a go at the green, with the lay of the land helping the ball along the way. Plenty of trouble if you miss left though!!

[Tom_Doak]

The hole is about 420 yards from the back tee, so you'd have to have a hell of a wind behind you to aim anywhere near the green.

[Ben Jarvis]

The hole is about 420 yards from the back tee, so you'd have to have a hell of a wind behind you to aim anywhere near the green.

Tom,

What is the length from the intermediate/member tee? It looks like, with the right to left shape, the ball could really run on and get close to the front edge, with a strong wind of course!

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

What is the length from the intermediate/member tee? It looks like, with the right to left shape, the ball could really run on and get close to the front edge, with a strong wind of course!

Ben:

I honestly don't know the answer to this, as we never had a map of the ground down there that I considered to be accurate.

My best advice would be that if you ever do get the wind behind you, you should still check to make sure there is nobody down on the beach before you try that shot.  I do not want you killing anyone trekking around the point!

[Simon Holt]

Hi Ben,

The idea was floated that when we have a tour event they may use the forward tee to entice the big boys to have ago downwind.  Not an option for the mere mortals.  The front tee is just under 400 yards, so 380ish front of green.  I can drive our 8th green when its downwind at 320 so I am sure the tour guys might consider it on the new 10th if we dangled the carrot.

Simon

[Ben Jarvis]

Hi Ben,

The idea was floated that when we have a tour event they may use the forward tee to entice the big boys to have ago downwind.  Not an option for the mere mortals.  The front tee is just under 400 yards, so 380ish front of green.  I can drive our 8th green when its downwind at 320 so I am sure the tour guys might consider it on the new 10th if we dangled the carrot.

Simon

Thanks for refreshing my memory Simon - it would be wonderful to see but I don't think too many would take on the risk.

[Niall C]

Simon/Tom

I take it playing from the beach isn't going to be an option a la Machrihanish or North Berwick. Did the planners have a concern regarding the holes playing close to a public area, indeed did you have any safety concerns yourself or is it not as bad as it might appear ?

Niall

[Simon Holt]

Pass!  I am sure Tom knows but I dont.  It would be really hard to get down to the beach and play a ball; its a pretty big cliff.

[Simon Holt]

http://www.trcaa.com/the_course/the_new_holes/


There are a few more pictures on our website of the new holes now they have grassed in a little more.  We played them for the first time in a one off preview for the members about a month ago - they are as spectacular to play as they look on the photographs.

The cliff hole which is the one depicted in the cool aerial shot plays at 430 from the back and 390 from the members tee.  Stephen Gallagher (European Tour Pro) is one of our members and he knocked it to 20 yards short of the green from the front tee.  I really believe when the ground firms up a little more, the front tee might be a fun option downwind in a pro tournament.

To stand on the tee is truly spectacular with Fidra Island on the left of the shot.  In fact the photograph on the first par 3 with Fidra in the background is arguably just as good.  As you can see the grass coverage on the two par 3 greens is very good (the greens with the wall next to them).  Crap playing weather this year has proved to be excellent grass growing weather.

The new clubhouse is watertight and we will move in over the winter.  Scheduled to open in April, the Grand Opening for want of a better phrase, will be in June around our Member-Guest.  The new rotation will be in play from June 1st, so everything should be shipshape well in time for the Open next door at Muirfield in 2013.  Golf in the morning at Renaissance, then hop over the wall to watch the Open in the avo

Enjoy.

[Tom_Doak]

Simon:

Great timing!  I am actually visiting John Ashworth out in San Diego today -- he will drool over the picture of the 9th and Fidra behind it. 

[For everyone else:  sadly, that is not the angle of the tee shot ... they wouldn't let us go out in the dunes that far to put the tee.  But you do get the full-on view of the island and lighthouse once you get to the green, and all the way along on the 10th.]

[Simon Holt]

He's a good man!  I saw him in Vegas at the PGA Expo for the first time since the Renaissance Cup.  Have fun.

[mike_beene]

So how far is it to the course from the 6th green at Muirfield?

[Tom_Doak]

The current 10th tee at The Renaissance Club is about 100 yards from the sixth tee at Muirfield.

[Mark Chaplin]

Simon - is the club looking to make any tee times open to visitors during the Open as some of the decent clubs do close to Augusta to raise a few bob?

[Simon Holt]

Hi Mark,

We will be hosting 8 very small groups (8 golfers) which we are already marketing in the appropriate channels.  While its nice to make a few bob we are in a very fortunate financial position, so to be honest it is more about exposure for us and getting the word out in the right way.  We have not paid for advertising in any magazines or articles as of yet and I cant see us doing it anytime soon.  I'm not sure if that is directly correlated to our very poor ranking considering how good the course actually is but that is for another discussion.  The reality is that I can still talk to golfers in Edinburgh that have never heard of us, let alone London or the US, its a slow process and an interesting/challenging branding exercise.

As you know as well as anybody the model is very different from 99% of clubs in GB&I.  We will certainly not be handing out flyers at the Open, far from it, but if someone called the day before and we didn't have many members down to play I am sure they could get a game at a price.  We would be silly not to really but the members will always come first.

The biggest problem that week will be accommodation!

[Ally Mcintosh]

We have not paid for advertising in any magazines or articles as of yet and I cant see us doing it anytime soon.  I'm not sure if that is directly correlated to our very poor ranking considering how good the course actually is but that is for another discussion.

Simon, what rankings do you feel hard done by from?.... The GB&I Golf World one have treated you about right and it's only good vibes that Renaissance is a stayer (Top 200 in 2008, followed by 70's in 2010 and now 60's in 2012)... New holes I'm sure will see it rise again... It's worth a Top-50 for sure because there's some pretty great detail in the design out there... But certainly wouldn't say it's entitled to any higher due to all the competition... That said, I wouldn't argue against it being rated higher either...

[Simon Holt]

I dont feel hard done by personally as they can put us where they like but if asked, I feel 35-45 would be about right.  I can see how it reads like I was having a pop but its not something I lose sleep over.  It comfortably holds its own against all the other courses in the area.  The greens this year were better than anywhere else I played in GB&I, including all of the usual suspects.  Richard Windows at the STRI says we have set "a new benchmark for links course conditioning."

In my opinion the Golf World list is more credible than the others but when other 'new' courses jump straight in at dizzy heights it does amuse me.  I have been very lucky to play a lot of good courses in the past few years, Renaissance is not in the top 20 of those but its a pretty good personal list    I suppose it just niggles away when I hear people who havent played it recently saying that its not better than course X because magazine Y says it isn't.  I'm emotionally detached enough to look in the mirror and say it is considerably better than its ranking in the UK magazines.

Re the new holes, I have no doubt that we will see an uptick in the rankings.  In a way that frustrates me though.  I will be annoyed when people say we needed those changes to take it to the next level or some BS like that.  Its a very good course now and I hope people remember that when we change to the new routing.  If people say 'it wasn't that good before' and believe me they will, I will find it hard to bite my lip...I will, but I will find it hard.   I really like the way the course flows at the moment, its very nicely balanced.

Of the GCAers that have played it I would be surprised if they didn't concur. 

[Ulrich Mayring]

As someone rating golf courses I can tell you that "exclusive access" is indeed a problem. This does not necessarily have to do with the business model, there are other reasons why access can be confined to a few - such as a very remote location or a host of world class courses nearby that get all the play.

In any event, whenever I play a course that not many raters have played before, I am completely going out on a limb judging it. Suppose I played some hidden gem and proclaimed greatness, then maybe Tom Doak is going to seek it out and find it average and I'd have a lot of egg on my face. Conversely, if I grossly undersell the course. So any judgment tends to be "with a grain of salt". This is a normal human reaction and as such an integral part of the rating process (we do rate for humans!).

Again, this is not a function of how hard it is to get onto a course. I'd have no problem rating Augusta National or Pine Valley, because I can weigh my personal impressions against a huge body of reference material that is out there.

Ulrich

[Tim_Weiman]

Simon,

I understand your frustration regarding the ranking, but I remember playing during the Ren Cup and feeling that the new holes would significantly alter the character of the course and for the better. It isn't just that the new holes are coming. No, we were told that during our visit and it was hard right from the beginning not to defer our final evaluation of the course, at least it was for me.

That is an unusual situation, I believe. Where else was that the case?

Imagine playing Cypress Point for the first time, but without 15-17 existing Then, a member takes you to the land and says "we are hoping the California Coastal Commission is going to let us build these holes". Of course, you would be hoping things would work out. Of course, you would be looking forward to coming back. You would be thinking what CP was going to be, not what it already was.

By the way, of all Tom's work, my favorite could well be St. Andrews Beach. There also we were told more was coming - a second course. But, for me that didn't distract my appreciation for had already been built.

One final point,  for the Renaissance Club I think the existing 1-3 holes will become something better than they already are: a great place to warm up or just play a few casual holes. In that role they will beat how they started in the golf world.

[Mark Pearce]

Simon,

I think you are completely correct about the rankings.  Certainly in so far as the comparison between RC and other modern courses.  I also think the ranking of RC means more to you than you say.  If the club is a success, who cares if you're top 50 rather than top 60?

[Jud_T]

Hard to believe it's 49 spots below the European Club...

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