a routing issue: heading back toward the line of fire

[PThomas]

I played a course this weekend that, 2 or 3 times, had me head back up one of the sides of the fairway to the next tee...I find this to be a big negative due to safety concerns:

Is this ever justfiable??

[Wade Whitehead]

PT:

Is the course private?  If so is it busy?

I can imagine a very quiet place might incline an architect to route without typical concerns for line-of-fire.

At Ballyhack we have a teebox on the seventeenth hole (a short par three) that is close to the "line of fire" for the tee shot on the twelfth.  It's only used every now and then, but I've literally never seen a group on twelve when it has been.  Even recently in our member-member there weren't enough groups to present a problem.  The nature of the place permits it, but a busier venue would never utilize it.

WW

[PThomas]

PT:

Is the course private?  If so is it busy?

I can imagine a very quiet place might incline an architect to route without typical concerns for line-of-fire.

At Ballyhack we have a teebox on the seventeenth hole (a short par three) that is close to the "line of fire" for the tee shot on the twelfth.  It's only used every now and then, but I've literally never seen a group on twelve when it has been.  Even recently in our member-member there weren't enough groups to present a problem.  The nature of the place permits it, but a busier venue would never utilize it.

WW

Wade, it was a resort course....you make a good point that it might be ok at a private course or when with limited play

[Tom_Doak]

Paul:

You have to do that from 13 green to 14 tee at Pacific Dunes.  The course must suck.

[PThomas]

Paul:

You have to do that from 13 green to 14 tee at Pacific Dunes.  The course must suck.

actually PD is one of my favorite courses ever Tom.....so am I making too big a deal about it?  and is it, in your opinion, ok to do it more than once a round?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Paul,

I would say it's only a safety concern if the players behind can’t see you.

I would hesitate to call it bad design when players have to return down the fairway, as the designer has probably chosen to offer the players a meaty Par 4,  as opposed to a sub 300 yard Par 4. This knowingly at the cost of a potential reduction of the speed of play.

Usually a safer Tee would be on offer next to the green to avoid walking back.

[Sean_A]

I don't like it because either 1) play is slowed down - often unnecessarily or 2) players are often needlessly put at risk.  There are always exceptions like when a road or water etc block access to a safe path, but like with long walks between greens and tees, the hole has to be of the quality to justify the hitch.  An excellent hole goes a long way to overlooking hitches.   

Ciao   

[Mac Plumart]

Paul:

You have to do that from 13 green to 14 tee at Pacific Dunes.  The course must suck.

Yes, Tom, that course is a piece of junk...trust me, I've played it.   

Paul...I think in general the routing issue you site should be avoided/limited.  But in the end, each course/piece of land will determine what is appropriate to do.  If the architect embraces minimalism/naturalism, then the land should dictate everything (or close to everything).

[Tom_Doak]

Paul:

You have to do that from 13 green to 14 tee at Pacific Dunes.  The course must suck.

actually PD is one of my favorite courses ever Tom.....so am I making too big a deal about it?  and is it, in your opinion, ok to do it more than once a round?

It's not ideal, surely.  But there are lots of courses that don't double back into play, that still aren't as good as Pacific Dunes.

There are exceptions to every rule.  In fact, there are usually enough exceptions to them that I don't know why people keep searching for new rules.

[Jeff_Brauer]

No one likes the hair on the back of their neck standing up when they play golf, unless its for the carry on 16 at Cypress!

Not ideal by any means.  Once in a blue moon, quite necessary.  Agree that its worse on a public and worser on a resort, where you presume everyone plays just once (or at most, once every few years) but still, paying dues doesn't make you more willing to risk injury, does it?

As mentioned, I am less concerned with the back tee, since maybe 1% of people play there, and conflicts will be fewer.

Also its not only safety, but a speed of play issue to go back from a green to the next tee, since following groups have to wait it out for you to clear their hitting zone.

Honestly, in most cases you would be hard pressed to explain it if someone got really injured.  Surely someone would find a way to route it without those situations.

[Evan Louden]

One upside is if you put your approach on the green you get the opportunity to drop your bag by the next tee and make that nice little walk up and back with just your putter.

Tom,

Was there any thought to trying to putting a path around the back side of the big dune to the right of 13 green to the 14th tee box at PD?

Oh and, Hello everyone.

Evan

[Greg Tallman]

Paul:

You have to do that from 13 green to 14 tee at Pacific Dunes.  The course must suck.

actually PD is one of my favorite courses ever Tom.....so am I making too big a deal about it?  and is it, in your opinion, ok to do it more than once a round?

It's not ideal, surely.  But there are lots of courses that don't double back into play, that still aren't as good as Pacific Dunes.

There are exceptions to every rule.  In fact, there are usually enough exceptions to them that I don't know why people keep searching for new rules.

Perhaps they watch too much Bill Maher

[Randy Thompson]

I think it sucks but have had to do it more than once, developers down here have a bad habit of making a land plan without golf architect input, pre-selling the lots and then calling me and asking me to put 18 holes into the remaining corridors. So sometimes your forced into these unpleasant alternatives. Like I said, it sucks but so does sixteen and seventeen hole golf courses which is the other alternative. The third alternative is walk away and protect your reputation but drinking wine from those orange juice looking boxes....really sucks! Fifteen foot netting protecting tee boxes also suck but got some of them of those too.

[Mike McGuire]

We have a bad one on our Gill nine at West Bend CC.

From 15 green to 16 tee you walk 40 yards back into the hole. Bad because it's a reachable par 5 so your waiting for the green to clear and then wait another couple minutes for them to get al the way to the tee.

Plan is to shorten 15 to a par 4 and then no issue.

[Jason Thurman]

Doesn't it become much easier to reverse the routing if you have tees on the side of greens rather than behind them? That's a fun thing to do once or twice a year...

[Jason Topp]

Safety concerns aside there is something that stinks about having to turn around and walk backwards to get to a tee.  I will gladly do it if a great hole is the result.