[Joe Leenheer]

I am scheduled to play tomorrow morning at a course I have never played before.  It is a newer course (2006) and looks to be a nice, semi-private club.  I've played two other courses that it's architect designed and they were ok at best. 

I know I can't expect the type of excitement as if I were playing ______________ (fill in your big time club/course here) tomorrow, but I'm not excited at all. 

I'm sure I will enjoy my company, but shouldn't I be at least a little bit excited to see a new track regardless of details?

Would anyone else out there like to join my GCASA (golf course architect snobs anonymous) club?

[Doug Ralston]

I think this is an opportunity.

Go play it, then write us a report on if you were right or not, and most importantly, why. May learn something about yourself, and even if you don't, who cares, because we will. 

Enjoy

Doug

[Matt_Cohn]

This is a topic I've thought about before, because it's very easy for GCA to awaken us to the deficiencies and unmet potential of so many golf courses we play.

But if this website makes any of us enjoy our pursuits less, rather than more, we should simply leave it. GCA should help us to enjoy the game and the places we play it more, not less. It should allow us to notice and take pleasure in elements of golf courses we might not have noticed before.

An analog in my life is that my pursuit of cooking has taught me to appreciate and enjoy more foods - not just the fancy ones, but the very mundane ones too. It wasn't until I started making a lot of my own sauces that I learned, as a silly but true example, to appreciate ketchup.

I hope that we can find our own ways to enjoy the game more through our time on this site.

[Mark Saltzman]

Joe, when you lose excitement about playing because you will be playing a less-than-great course, you must begin to question which one you like more... golf or golf courses. 

ps: I completely understand.

[Keith Doleshel]

I am one of those people who will play golf pretty much anywhere they let me put a peg in the ground and let me tee it up.  That being said, most of my favorite golf courses are the ones which are either nationally ranked or highly regarded by GCA types.  What I have found is that I have played many courses which wouldn't be thought of highly by a lot of golf course snobs, but there have been elements of those courses which I really enjoyed.  I love finding golf courses off the beaten path, 9 hole courses, and places where I can form my own opinion of them without having expectations being built up in my mind.  Of course, there have been times where I have left feeling that there was unrealized potential or even disappointed with elements of a course, but there are few places where I tell myself that I wouldn't return.

I agree with what Matt and Mark both said.  I enjoy being on here to learn more about golf course architecture, see some really cool pictures and descriptions of places which I would love to play or have played, and I think it has helped me enjoy the game more and become more aware of places I play.  I certainly wouldn't be on here if it took away any enjoyment I have about playing the game.  I guess I am in the camp of someone who likes golf more than golf courses, but feel like I have met a happy medium between the two.

[Ken Moum]

Even without this site, I have concluded that playing a Ross all the time, and understanding what I like about golf course design has made me WAY less tolerant of crappy courses.

But I have done what Geoff Shackelford suggests in "Grounds for Golf."  When I play courses that I find lacking, I try to work out why they don't appeal to me, and what I might have done differently.

The simple fact is that nearly all the courses I play have elements that make wonder what in hell the people who built it were thinking of.  There are even a few that raise the question, "Who looked at this piece of property and thought it looked like a golf course?"

A perfect example is a course I played on my Nebraska trip over Memorial Day weekend.  Heritage Hills is only an hour and a half from Wild Horse, and one of them screams Golf Here!!! and the other one... well, it just makes me want to scream.

[Sean_A]

Joe

I am already a card carrying gca snob or maybe a classic gca snob.  I can find cool stuff in a lot of old courses that many people wouldn't give a first look - I think because subtlety is for the most part a dead art.  There is a ton of fine golf out there that doesn't get ranked, Doaked or mentioned by mags.  Sometimes, these are the courses I enjoy the most. 

Ciao

[JC Jones]

People > place.  Always.

[Michael Goldstein]

Spot on Sean. I had the pleasure of finding one today: Otaki.

Joe, hope you enjoy it.

[Mac Plumart]

Sean and JC...I'm with you 100%.

Joe...I think you can find some really neat architectural features on courses that are not highly regarded by the masses.  And, for sure, you can have a damn good time playing with friends on any golf course.

[Dan Herrmann]

I reconfirmed today that I'm married to a GCA snob.  Over the last couple of weeks, we played two courses because our home club was closed for men's/women's member/guests.  Laura's out there critiquing green complexes, angles, use of terrain, and even agronomy (noting the presence of algae on one green and lamenting a huge greenside fan on another).

Thanks, treehouse.  You've turned her into a gal with fine tastes.  Yikes!

[Andy Troeger]

I'm always excited to see a new course, even if its not highly regarded. I admittedly am not that interested in driving 1-2 hours for the lousy municipal courses in the little towns around New Mexico, but I've played basically everything in town. I tried to play everything within an hour of South Bend when I lived there too, although I missed at least a few on the Michigan side of the state line. Unfortunately there's nothing left for me to see now! The closest Golf Digest candidate course that I haven't seen is four hours away (Torreon in Show Low, AZ). 

If I'm going to travel across the country for golf, I do admittedly tend to stick to the ones I really want to see, or at least a group of courses in an area of interest.

[Paul Jones]

People > place.  Always.

JC,

Spot on... One of my favorite rounds of golf was at Ballybunion Cashen course with 2 childhood friends.  From an architecture standpoint, it was at the botton of our trip, but we had a great time playing.

[Cliff Walston]

I am a glass half full kind of guy.  I have found that the more I have learned about good golf architecture, the more redeeming qualities I find in even otherwise average courses that I would have missed before I began this journey. 

[Jason Thurman]

I love great courses, but I'm still happy to play mundane ones, particularly with good company.

I do play some golf with a few very good friends with very high handicaps. On those occassions, I sometimes lament that moving up a tee or two or three means missing out on some of a course's architectural features, but I prefer the socializing.

I do try to approach every course with an open mind, and sometimes find myself pleasantly surprised or surprisingly appalled. I also enjoy finding shards of brilliance on beat up, run down, below average courses.

I still want to analyze the courses I play, and that in itself makes me a GCA snob I guess, but I'm happy I can still enjoy a round almost anywhere. I do struggle to get through courses that are flat-out awful though, or ones that I think an abomination.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I hate it but I only want to play courses I enjoy.  I am supposed to play The Blue course at Congressional on Friday and am looking to get out of it.  I just don't enjoy the course at all.  I'd rather play the Gold Course.  I don't care if a course is ranked or not, but I do care if it is a course I enjoy.

[Steve_Lovett]

People > place.  Always.

TRUTH

[James Boon]

I'm happy to play golf at a lot of different places, especially in good company. I also enjoy a lot of old quirky courses that I grew up playing in the Derbyshire hills that I know a lot of people dont take to. Though I suppose as we all have an interest in golf course design and history there will always be a degree of snobbery to some extent?

However, I do think I suffer from "Shit Golf Course Syndrome" where if I find myself playing over a flat dull piece of land, with not a lot of interest, then I can virtually guarantee it wont stimulate me into playing decent golf, but will lead to some absolute tripe on my part! 

Cheers,

James

[Carl Nichols]

I hate it but I only want to play courses I enjoy.  I am supposed to play The Blue course at Congressional on Friday and am looking to get out of it.  I just don't enjoy the course at all.  I'd rather play the Gold Course.  I don't care if a course is ranked or not, but I do care if it is a course I enjoy.

It's also supposed to be 99 on Friday. (I'm also scheduled to play Congo on Friday -- what time are you playing?)

[Joe Leenheer]

Excellent thoughts/comments by all. 

I agree with people>place, but in my professional I have learned to play along with pretty much ANY personality and still be able to enjoy my time on a course.

Today's course lived up to the hype...which was little to none.  In the architects defense, he wasn't given much to work with.  The course is laid out within a housing development....for some this would be "enough said". 

What made matters worse is that the development is still under development so at times I felt like I was on a dusty construction site rather then a golf course.  I believe our semi-drought here in NE Ohio didn't help matters either.

The course was uninteresting for the first 8 holes.  The 9th hole was a glimmer of hope as it was the first hole with any natural terrain which was very nicely used.  As we turned to the back 9, it appeared that the architects hands were a bit tied as large homesites took up valuable real-estate which could have allowed for a more interesting routing and a much better use of natural terrain.  Holes 10-14 were blah. 

The one thing that the course did have going for it was a "strong" finish (strong only in comparison to the rest of the course.  Holes 15-18 where very well thought out and fun to play.
 
Unfortunately for me, my lack of anticipation was appropriate.  On the bright side however, I did come out of today with something positive.  I have found my own way of rating a golf course.  I have yet to name my scale, but it revolves around how far I/you think someone should drive to play a course. 

I give this course, Shale Creek Golf Club in Medina, Ohio 10-15 miles.

I am currently working on a 12 step program for other GCA Snobs.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I hate it but I only want to play courses I enjoy.  I am supposed to play The Blue course at Congressional on Friday and am looking to get out of it.  I just don't enjoy the course at all.  I'd rather play the Gold Course.  I don't care if a course is ranked or not, but I do care if it is a course I enjoy.

It's also supposed to be 99 on Friday. (I'm also scheduled to play Congo on Friday -- what time are you playing?)

Not sure about the exact time yet but I think it is around 9:30.  It is probably under Don Orso.

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