Bare Knuckles Bandon Brawl - Rank the 4 Courses at BDGR

[Alex Miller]

I might be the only guy with this ranking

BT, PD, OM, BD

I'd love to go back and confirm my ranking  .

Bart

Not the only guy at all.

[PThomas]

OM, BD, PD, BT

would love to hear why you ranked them this way Mac, thx

[David Kelly]

My bottom line about this ranking is best put thusly:  If any of these courses was the only course out there, it would be a wildly popular destination. 

If Bandon Dunes was the only course there I wouldn't have returned the many times I have.  I liked the course but it wouldn't keep drawing me back.  OM, PD and to a lesser extent BT all would if they were the only course at Bandon.

[Mac Plumart]

OM, BD, PD, BT

would love to hear why you ranked them this way Mac, thx

Hey Paul...

Old MacDonald is my favorite due to the "adventure" golf vibe to the course, the uniqueness, the routing makes the round feel like a journey, and fun aspect of the challenges.  And, if playing a match, the closing holes are some of the best match play holes I've ever seen.  Some people may bag on this hole or that as they don't fit in the with the templates perfectly, but I couldn't care less.  All I want is fun golf with unique challenges.  And Old Mac delievers in spades.  Quite simply, I'd travel far and wide to play a course like this...as I can't get what it has anywhere near my home.

Bandon Dunes is a great mix of links golf meets American golf.  It is linksy enough to be something different, but still "comfortable" enough not to throw you totally out of whack.  So, I am at ease while playing...but with really neat tee to green challenges.  And then comes 16...WOW!!!!!  I think the placement of that hole, in all its maginficence, is perfect and then to follow it up with 17 is ideal...and then while still awed and amazed by those two holes, you are eased out of the round bewildered and stunned.  Really cool stuff IMO.

Pacific Dunes' back nine is out of this world amazing.  11, 13, 14, 17, and 18 knocked my socks off.  But I was a bit underwhelmed with a few of the holes, notably 1, 2, 7, and 8.  I am unsure if 7 and 8 are great in every wind.  But then you get a hole like 6, and you are totally blown away again.  I guess it was hit or miss with me and my, to date, 2 plays of the course.  However, I think if I've missed something while playing and evaluating a course...I might have missed something at Pac Dunes.  Like I said, I've played it twice...but I feel like I need to get back out there again for another round (or two).  BUT, I've felt this way before about other courses and then on the follow-up visits I felt the same way.  Regardless, I'll be back to try it again.

Bandon Trails I LOVED holes 1-13.  Then the vibe shifted on hole 14 to something completely different from the first 13 holes...then the vibe at 15 was right back to the same one that existed before hole 14...then 16 had another odd feel to it that wasn't congruent to any of the other holes...then 17 was freakin' world class but by this time my head was spinning from all the shifts in vibes of of the holes...and then 18 was another odd feeling hole.  This back and forth in sentiment regarding holes ruined it for me.  I really liked the course, I think it is really good, but in my mind it doesn't compare to the other courses as I feel the course doesn't fit together like the others do.  

Of course, these are just my thoughts (as you requested).  I'm sure others have differing and very valid opinions.  After all, that is what makes the Discussion Group so entertaining.

[Matthew Essig]

OM, BT,PD....................BD

+1, but not so many ........

+2

[Dustin Knight]

Here goes... Having just returned to the other side of the world after a dream trip here's my take on Bandon. Let me also declare that I am a golf professional and this is just my personal opinion, i'm sure I will be lambasted by many here for what I am about to say..... so be it!.

#1 Bandon Trails - A true challenge and the one I walked away from with my jaw on the ground! just a fabulous use of the dune and forest land with a memorable journey form coast to forest and back to coast! A true player's course.

#2 Old Mac - surely the most fun you can have on a golf course without being kinky and naked with the opposite sex!

#3 Bandon Dunes - the suprise packet of the trip! I loved the space and strategy required to play well here! the tease of ocean holes early and then taking you inland made you salivate for more, 15-17 just delivered the anticipation you were expecting.

#4 The Preserve!!!! Wow, what a pure place to share some beers, ,mateship and exchange some cash with your mates! totally unexpected to find such quality golf there!.

#5 Pac Dunes....... Sure the ocean holes just blow you away, however i consider this like Pebble, apart from the ocean holes I just felt let down and expected more.

During the trip I played every venue twice, I can recite every hole I played on each course apart from PD...... It just didn't live up to the hype from my end.

let the blasting start.......

[Pete Blaisdell]

For my personal enjoyment

  Old Mac
  Trails
  PD
  BD

Stroke competition

  PD
  BD
  Old Mac
  Trails

Match Play

  Old Mac
  Trails
  PD
  BD

[Garland Bayley]

Dustin,

You give us no context. You sound like a great admirer of the courses, but then say they let you down.
Do all courses let you down? What courses don't?
In what way did they let you down? Approach shots didn't hold? WARNING, if you say yes to that one, you best run and hide.

EDIT: On rereading, I understand it was just Pacific Dunes that let you down.
In that case, each to his own.

[Jud_T]

PD, OM, BT, BD

Ditto.

Ditto.   

another ditto

Yet another ditto, this is obviously the right answer....

[Garland Bayley]

PD, OM, BT, BD

Ditto.

Ditto.   

another ditto

Yet another ditto, this is obviously the right answer....

Not the right answer, just the most predictable one from this group.

[Mark Johnson]

i think dustin makes a good point about BT being a players course.

I would be willing to bet that of the people who put BT first, a majority are probably (or have been) mid-single digits handicaps or lower.   

[Matt Bosela]

PD, BT, OM, BD

That's the way I feel today.  Tomorrow is another day though...they are all great and I still plan on an equal split the next time I visit.

[George Pazin]

...they are all great and I still plan on an equal split the next time I visit.

Just wondering how prevalent this plan is, from those who have returned and will return again.

[Matt Bosela]

...they are all great and I still plan on an equal split the next time I visit.

Just wondering how prevalent this plan is, from those who have returned and will return again.

George,

From those I've talked to, I'd guess I'm in the minority. 

[Stephen Davis]

PD, OM, BT, BD

Ditto.

Ditto.   

another ditto

Yet another ditto, this is obviously the right answer....

Another Ditto here! Although, I think that Bandon Trails is a better course than Bandon Dunes, however, I enjoy playing Bandon Dunes more.

[Mac Plumart]

i think dustin makes a good point about BT being a players course.

I would be willing to bet that of the people who put BT first, a majority are probably (or have been) mid-single digits handicaps or lower.  

Mark...

I think you are spot on.  And I think you can use peoples favorites at Bandon and apply the three types of golfers that Mike Nuzzo wrote about to find out which type of golfer someone is.  The challenge-centric/Crane types probably like Trails best.  The adventure golfers probably Old Mac and maybe Pac Dunes.  The beauty-centric golfer probably Bandon Dunes and maybe Pac Dunes.

Always neat to dig deeper into why someone might like something.  In golf, I find it is almost always determined by how they view the game and what they think a course "should" do.

[Andy Troeger]

Another reason Trails might be a bit polarizing is the lack of wind there compared to the other three courses. I'll admit I'd probably enjoy Trails in a breeze more than the other three in a gale. It just seems like the trees and terrain protect the course from the elements a bit more. For others, that might all be a negative.

I don't really buy that Trails is that much more difficult than the other three. Its still pretty wide and played at a similar yardage I didn't see a big difference in challenge between any of the four courses at the resort. I think I scored similarly on all four courses as well.

Mac,
Your thoughts to me are interesting. I wouldn't associate adventure with Old Mac so much as I would Pac Dunes. I was a 2 hcp at one point so I fit Mark's theory, but I'd say I enjoy adventure over challenge but put Trails first by a nose over Pac Dunes with Old Mac last. The biggest gap for me is between BD at #3 and OM at #4. All of them I think belong in the top 100 in the US though so no shame in 4th in that group.

Interestingly I enjoyed MacDonald's "original" work on my New York trip this May more than I enjoyed Old Mac. Perhaps I just need to go back to Bandon now and I'll get the point, but I also don't think the land for OM had the quantity of natural features that existed on the other courses (or on the land for NGLA, Yale, Sleepy Hollow, etc.).

[Mac Plumart]

Andy...

I'd agree you fit that mold perfectly, if you were a 2 handicap and liked Trails best.

If Old Mac isn't adventure golf to you, what is?  Can you list a few courses that you'd consider "adventure golf".


In my mind, Old Mac is adventure golf...as are:  Askernish, Dismal River, Kingsley, and Rock Creek...to name a few.

[Bart Bradley]

i think dustin makes a good point about BT being a players course.

I would be willing to bet that of the people who put BT first, a majority are probably (or have been) mid-single digits handicaps or lower.  

Mark...

I think you are spot on.  And I think you can use peoples favorites at Bandon and apply the three types of golfers that Mike Nuzzo wrote about to find out which type of golfer someone is.  The challenge-centric/Crane types probably like Trails best.  The adventure golfers probably Old Mac and maybe Pac Dunes.  The beauty-centric golfer probably Bandon Dunes and maybe Pac Dunes.

Always neat to dig deeper into why someone might like something.  In golf, I find it is almost always determined by how they view the game and what they think a course "should" do.

Mac:

Very thoughtful as always.   But I like Trails best and I love adventure.  For me, Trails is the best routing at the Bandon Resort.  It also has the most adventure in my opinion.  I don't study golf courses before I go and visit.  Surprises around every corner at Trails.  Epic.  OM has the least adventure in my opinion.  Interesting how two people see and experience the same thing but perceive it differently.

I agree with Andy that the courses are all of approx equal difficulty although OM may be the least penal of the courses.

Best wishes,

Bart

Edit:  Adventure golf:  Lahinch, Prestwick, Kingsley, Ballyneal

[Mac Plumart]

Interesting how two people see and experience the same thing but perceive it differently.


You are right, Bart.  This reminds me of the thread about intimate golf courses.  Some people thought that Seminole was intimate, while others thought tree lined courses were intimate.  Different perspective.

I "get" where people could see Trails as adventure golf...but I don't.  Going blind over the hill on the Sahara Hole at Old Mac is adventure to me.





Traveling up the slope, battling the gorges/bunkers, to get the the sea side green on 15 is an adventure to me.





I can see where people could view the changing land types as an adventure at Trails, but I don't view it that way.

To each, their own...I suppose.

[Garland Bayley]

Mac,

Aren't there more blind drives at Trails than OM?

How about the adventure second at 14 Trails vs. the adventure approach at OM Westward Ho.

I think there is enough adventure all around the resort to make a person happy.

[Bart Bradley]

I fully agree that the Sahara is adventure golf...at its best.

Well said and I fully respect that we can each be moved by different things.  Art is very subjective.

Bart

[Mac Plumart]

Great food for thought guys.  Great food for thought.

I can only come up with one good answer...I need to get back out there to play all four courses again!!   

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
Adventure golf: Yale, Kingsley, Black Mesa, and Tobacco Road would be a good start!

I love Rock Creek and its got some components of adventure golf to it as well, perhaps similar to PD and Trails.

Bart's comment about OM being the least penal might be on to something for me. For me the adventure requires some potential for real danger, and Old Mac is the kind of course that builds upon itself for difficulty instead of having a few defining hazards that need to be challenged or navigated in some respect. I kind of like those climactic moments, and find more of them on the other three courses. I did like #5 and 7 at OM, in part because they presented danger not always present on the other holes.

[Jud_T]

I don't really buy that Trails is that much more difficult than the other three. Its still pretty wide and played at a similar yardage I didn't see a big difference in challenge between any of the four courses at the resort. I think I scored similarly on all four courses as well.

Andy,

I agree.  I've said this before but I don't really understand why many consider Trails to favor strong players.  Perhaps it's because it's a bit sheltered from the strong summer winds, but I've had my low round by a fair margin on both trips at Trails, and nobody in their right mind would call me a strong player.  Sure the first couple holes are a bit tight, the last couple are tough and one has to play the course with a reasonable sense of course management, but I just don't get it.  Furthermore, if one looks at the slope of the green tees on each course, one in from the tips and which most average players are likely to play, BT is the second EASIEST of the four courses.  Personally I find Bandon Dunes the most difficult and penal (139 slope from the greens), which is probably one of the reasons I rate it a distant fourth.