Fred Couples on the 17th hole at Fox Chapel

[Dean DiBerardino]

I was watching the Pro-Am on TV for the Senior Tour Championship and they were talking to Fred Couples on the tee of the Biarritz 17th at Fox Chapel. When they asked him to comment on the hole, I thought I heard him say hat he did not know who designed the golf course. Did I hear him correctly? I'm asking only because I know that Freddie "designs" courses on the side.

I'll be paying attention when watching the replay at 9:00pm on the Golf Channel.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Would u ask a blond in a halter if she knew the designer. Freddie On architecture is silly.   Plenty lend the rename but really know little about the history of course design or designer

[Howard Riefs]

I was watching the Pro-Am on TV for the Senior Tour Championship and they were talking to Fred Couples on the tee of the Biarritz 17th at Fox Chapel. When they asked him to comment on the hole, I thought I heard him say hat he did not know who designed the golf course. Did I hear him correctly? I'm asking only because I know that Freddie "designs" courses on the side.

I watched the replay last night on the Golf Channel.  I didn't hear Freddie comment regarding the architect ... but he seemed vexed about the Biarritz 17th.

"There's like a big ... um ... swale that divides the green."

[Dean DiBerardino]

I was watching the Pro-Am on TV for the Senior Tour Championship and they were talking to Fred Couples on the tee of the Biarritz 17th at Fox Chapel. When they asked him to comment on the hole, I thought I heard him say hat he did not know who designed the golf course. Did I hear him correctly? I'm asking only because I know that Freddie "designs" courses on the side.

I watched the replay last night on the Golf Channel.  I didn't hear Freddie comment regarding the architect ... but he seemed vexed about the Biarritz 17th.

"There's like a big ... um ... swale that divides the green."

I wonder if we can get Chris Carter on here to give Freddie a "C'MON MAN!"

[Ronald Montesano]

If Seth Raynor called from the great beyond, Freddie wouldn't pick up, in the event that someone was on the other end...

[Jeff_Mingay]

I like Fred Couples, quite a bit - at least as a golfer. I don't know him personally, but am (very) confident to place a (huge) bet that he could care less who designed Fox Chapel... and that he could also care less about designing golf courses (really), other than the pay cheques associated with those deals. Which is fine, too... he's Fred Couples. Such is life...

[Terry Lavin]

I played with Fred Couples at Shoreacres (another Raynor design as most here know) about 10 years ago in a charity event. He was a regular guest for five years or so. He LOVED the golf course. He was constantly pointing out the old-timey design features and said that the reason this particular event was so popular with the players was the quality of the golf course. So, he may not know the architect, but he respects the architecture.

[Mark McKeever]

Maybe he was just tired after his round and didnt feel like talking about it....

Mark

[Mike Benham]

Would u ask a blond in a halter if she knew the designer. Freddie On architecture is silly.   Plenty lend the rename but really know little about the history of course design or designer

Freddie would prefer to be talking to the blond in the halter top. 

Then again, the blond WOULD be talking to Freddie and ignoring those who do know who designed Fox Chapel.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

I believe one could do a "find and replace" function with Fred Couples and Tiger Woods and the thread would be pretty much the same.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

I watched a good portion of the telecast yesterday and most of today and have not heard the name Seth Raynor mentioned. Has anyone heard Raynor mentioned?

[Howard Riefs]

I watched a good portion of the telecast yesterday and most of today and have not heard the name Seth Raynor mentioned. Has anyone heard Raynor mentioned?

Better yet, when was the last time you heard the course architect mentioned on a broadcast?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Watched part of the telecast today and was disappointed the announcers either new little or cared about the architecture.  They kept saying it was a great or good hole or test of golf, but never explained why.  Of course one of the announcers was Lanny Wadkins, who seldom says anything of consequence.  Today he said that Greg Norman made a triple bogey because he is rusty and when confronted with unusual  shots that shows that rustiness comes out first.  Then 30 second later said that the biggest thing about being rusty is that you lose your patience quickly.
Which is it Lanny, patience or the inability to make unusual shots?

It seems to me that for the viewer the telecast could have used the architecture as their theme and it would have explained why someone did well on a particular hole.  All they ever said was that you have to leave it below the hole.  Great.

Finally they did some diagrams of the 17th showing the hole from different angles and with dimensions of the Biarritz.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Howard: If this was a Nicklaus or Palmer we'd be hearing it all telecast long.

A friend who watched yesterday said there was these two snippets from Lanny Wadkins.

 “Those steep faces are a design feature of Seth Raynor.  You’ll contend with those throughout the entire course.”
 
When describing the Biarritz 17th green, Wadkins says, “I’ve played a lot of golf in my days and I’ve never seen anything like this.”

During today's broadcast someone compared the 17th, which anyone has yet to call a Biarritz, to a a hole at Wailea. I'm wondering if Wadkins played there. There has also been no mention of the fact that the Greenbrier's Old White, which hosts a PGA Tour event, and Fox Chapel are by the same guy.

[Matthew Rose]

I don't expect the average pro to know who Raynor is, but I'd expect any one with a little bit of interest in architecture would.

Before I visited this site, I knew who he was but did not understand the significance. I also heard Pete Dye drop his name occasionally, which makes sense now but didn't then. I knew what a Redan was but I'd never seen a Biarritz.

The biarritz might be my favorite kind of par three now, although I've never actually played one.

[Howard Riefs]

Howard: If this was a Nicklaus or Palmer we'd be hearing it all telecast long.

Good point. And we did hear Nicklaus' name way too often on the broadcasts of the WGC Match Play (Dove Mountain) and PGA Sr. Championship (Benton Harbor)

[Ronald Montesano]

Pete Dye gets mentioned all the time, as does Donald Ross. We can't bitch too much. Raynor, CBM, Alister Mac, et al are second-tier, supporting actors at best.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Matthew: A Biarritz is even better in person.

Anthony

[Mark Steffey]

i was watching thursday and after norman's round he sat down with rosefort and the following exchange took place *with some paraphrasing from me.

tim - greg, what did you think playing a classic course today?

greg - yeah, classic (snort), walking down 10 today i asked tom (lehman?) what he would say if i built a hole like this.  he said that he and some of the guys would have a word with me..

tim - (pause.. no reply)

greg - when seth built this of course it ran at 9.5 or 10.  with todays technology and our being able to spin it, it...

tim - (moved on to something else)

[Dean DiBerardino]

Didn't Greg Norman build a golf course in Scottsdale, on the site of what is now the Mirabel Club, which was built and was closed before it officially opened because it was too hard to play?

Maybe Rosaforte should have asked him about that...

[John_Conley]

When describing the Biarritz 17th green, Wadkins says, “I’ve played a lot of golf in my days and I’ve never seen anything like this.”

During today's broadcast someone compared the 17th, which anyone has yet to call a Biarritz, to a a hole at Wailea. I'm wondering if Wadkins played there. There has also been no mention of the fact that the Greenbrier's Old White, which hosts a PGA Tour event, and Fox Chapel are by the same guy.

Tony:

Waialae is the home of the Sony Open, the Tour stop where Michelle Wie made an impression.  It is an old Seth Raynor course.  I would think Wadkins played there.

I have not played the course, but #13 is the Biarritz.

[Ronald Montesano]

Some of what the commentators say is massive-ego driven; some is ignorance driven and more still is drama driven. Thus, it is not conversational as we would exchange.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mark S - to be honest, I think Tom Rosefort gave up too quickly/easily. He didn't get the quick little sound bite he wanted/expected, (e.g. "ah, these old courses are great, so different") and so he moved on -- when actually there could've been a good discussion there with Norman raising the issue of green speeds and new technology etc.

Peter

[Tom Yost]

I did hear Raynor and Biarritz mentioned several times in Thursday's broadcast, although I couldn't tell who was talking. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Terry, Thanks for clearing Fred's good name with your Shoreacres post.