[JESII]

Did anybody catch the Golf Central segment Saturday night when they were debating which would be a bigger deal...Tiger Woods winning or Bo Hoessler winning.

The first three said Tiger and then Jerry Foltz says...are you all nuts? This kids 17 and Tiger has won 14 majors, this isn't even close...or something similar.

Really strange how far gone some of these commentators are.

[Peter Pallotta]

Kalen - you are correct. That sane pacific northwest perspective of yours is, as always, a great tonic to our grumpy, cutting eastern ways. Thanks. (You too, George -- but you're from the Burg.....)

Peter

[Jed Peters]

George,

This is one topic you and I agree on 1000%

Man boobs, low AM comments, swaggy walk??  Come on guys are you serious? Give the guy a freaking break, he's just a kid who's still wearing braces , trying to break thru his insecurities for that 1st date, and get past those awkward teen years.

I doubt most of us here would hold up so well even now, much less when we were pimply teenagers.....

Its one thing to bag on a grown adult like Phil or Tiger...but c'mon we're better than bagging on a kid right?

I certainly don't want to be seen as bagging on a kid because I agreed (one time) with johnny miller.

The kid made low am comments himself.

And I could give a shit if the kid's lumpy or soft, for crissakes I could wear a c-cup on a "brO" if you put me in one.

Hopefully he gets it in as a result of his new found fame. I bet it'd help the swagger (or lack there of).

And George, shooting +6 in a round where you've been +3 for the tourney in three rounds before that is puking on yourself.

[Howard Riefs]

I was pulling for the kid. But he set himself up for a lousy final round by raising his expectations and putting too much pressure on himself.   

“I still want to be low amateur, but I also want to win the tournament,” he said. “I’m in contention to win it, and I’m going to try and take advantage of it tomorrow.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/sports/golf/us-open-17-year-old-amateur-believes-he-can-win.html

[Bill Seitz]

I was pulling for the kid. But he set himself up for a lousy final round by raising his expectations and putting too much pressure on himself.   

“I still want to be low amateur, but I also want to win the tournament,” he said. “I’m in contention to win it, and I’m going to try and take advantage of it tomorrow.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/sports/golf/us-open-17-year-old-amateur-believes-he-can-win.html

What would you have preferred?  "Sure, I'm in contention, but if I get to 16 within a shot or two of the lead, I'm definitely pulling a Chip Beck there, because while winning would be great, it's much more important to me to be low am"?  Isn't the goal for all of us to go out and shoot the lowest number possible?  Is there any evidence that he played too aggressive going for the win, or played the course any differently than he would have if he were trying to protect low am?  Much ado about nothing. 

[Howard Riefs]

What would you have preferred?  "Sure, I'm in contention, but if I get to 16 within a shot or two of the lead, I'm definitely pulling a Chip Beck there, because while winning would be great, it's much more important to me to be low am"?  Isn't the goal for all of us to go out and shoot the lowest number possible?  Is there any evidence that he played too aggressive going for the win, or played the course any differently than he would have if he were trying to protect low am?  Much ado about nothing. 

Yes, the goal is to play the course as it presents itself and to shoot the lowest number possible. Simply put, he could have said just that instead of "I want to win the tournament." We know that's the goal of all players. (Sans Chip Beck.)

[PCCraig]

I was pulling for him. Just playing in the US Open is a terrific accomplishment as a 17 year old, let alone contending. So what if he changed his goal. What would you have rather him say? "No, I'm not here to try to win the tournament?" Of course not, you shouldn't even enter local qualifying unless you think you can win....that's the entire point of entering the tournament.

And not only does he gave serious game for a teenager, he has more personality than 90% of the dopes playing on the PGA Tour already.

[George Pazin]

He shot 76 in a late pairing in the final round of the US Open.

Here are some scores of long-time pros, including some major winners:

Jim Furyk               74
Graeme McDowell   73
Tiger Woods          73
Lee Westwood       73
Frederick Jacobson  75
Nicholas Colsaerts    76
Matt Kuchar           74
Sergio Garcia          75
Hunter Mahan        74
Angel Cabrera        75
Phil Mickelson         78
Keegan Bradley      76


I hope to look back on my life at some point and see that I've puked on myself in such a fashion.

[John_Conley]

George, my internet search of "Jed Peters golf" turns up very few rounds under 76 in a Major championship.  I'm with you here.  Way to go, kid!

[Jed Peters]

George, my internet search of "Jed Peters golf" turns up very few rounds under 76 in a Major championship.  I'm with you here.  Way to go, kid!

No doubt. But then again, at my level (which is shitty) If I was, say, playing the my Club stroke play tournament....

And let's say I was XXX over for three rounds. Then one day I went out and shot XXX over (x2) the final day, to get smoked? I'd say I puked on myself.

And no matter what that kid is told by people who think he should get a participant's ribbon that "he did good, he should be proud of himself" he will know, deep down in his competitive bones, that he fucked up and screwed the pooch with a poor round on sunday.

I should qualify this post by saying that I will never ever ever be in that kind of professional situation in anything that I ever do with regards to sport, I have no clue the pressure, I am not as good as Beau, etc. etc. etc.

[Bill Seitz]

Yes, the goal is to play the course as it presents itself and to shoot the lowest number possible. Simply put, he could have said just that instead of "I want to win the tournament." We know that's the goal of all players. (Sans Chip Beck.)

Yeah, but that would have been really, really boring.  "I want to win the tournament" is honest and somewhat refreshing.  Again, there's no evidence that his stated goals had any affect on the way he played or the number that he put up.  Why should I root for someone who's afraid to admit that he wants to win?  

[JMEvensky]

I should qualify this post by saying that I will never ever ever be in that kind of professional situation in anything that I ever do with regards to sport, I have no clue the pressure, I am not as good as Beau, etc. etc. etc.

None of us will be.

Which is why all any of us should ever do is to just be amazed that a 17 year old kid was a factor in the US Open.To think that this kid puked all over himself is incredible.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I was pulling for him. I thought what he did was amazing.
I figured he would self destruct when he got the lead Friday afternoon. Which he did for a few holes.
I thought he should have never said (Out loud) in the interview Saturday "I can win."
Like saying "Hey, nice no hitter."
Just bad karma.
While my group was playing Sunday, we were debating what would happen if he won.
Turn pro? (see Ty Tryon) Stay an am? Finish high school? Go one year to Texas, and then turn pro?

[John Kavanaugh]

I should qualify this post by saying that I will never ever ever be in that kind of professional situation in anything that I ever do with regards to sport, I have no clue the pressure, I am not as good as Beau, etc. etc. etc.

None of us will be.

Which is why all any of us should ever do is to just be amazed that a 17 year old kid was a factor in the US Open.To think that this kid puked all over himself is incredible.

I puke all over myself now as a 52 yr old more than I did when I was 17.  One of the best things that ever happened to me when I moved back to my home town as a 30 yr old was when I volunteered for our small town fire department.  I was feeling civic minded and figured I could wiggle a buck out of it by being a better person.  They looked my straight in the eye and told me I was too old.  You see, 30 yr olds run from danger, they only want to train young men.  Kinda like the Army.

Oh, to be 17 again.  btw...No thanks.

[Kalen Braley]

I was only hoping that we as the "adults" would recognize that he's just a kid, so of course he's probably not going to say the "right" things that the pros have had years and years of camera time to perfect.  I would think given his current spot in life, he would get a free pass on pretty much anything that came out of his mouth.

On a side note, if anything it was refreshing to hear someone do an interview where they are actually saying how they feel instead of giving the same old canned/scripted responses.  I mean c'mon, does anyone believe a word that comes out of the mouth of a guy like Tiger or Jim after their rounds?

[Howard Riefs]

Would this response have made some of you happier?

"Bo, you're 4 shots off the lead heading into tomorrow's round. What are you goals, and have they changed?"

"Well, I'll tell ya what...I just wanna play it one shot at a time tomorrow and let the chips fall where they may. Fairways and greens and on my misses, just want to miss it in the right spot, give myself a lot of green to work with and see what happens. Not sure if you've ever heard this before or not, but this here game is a game of inches...that means the inches between your ears...which means your brain.... This is a tough, old school course that rewards good ball striking. The good Lord willing, I'll get some putts to drop and we'll see what happens. Hey, speaking of the good Lord, I want to give a shout out to him and my personal savior......David Ledbetter.

Exactly. 

"You're going to have to learn your cliches. You're going to have to study them. You're going to have to know them. They're your friends."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVca9MwDX8

[Doug Ralston]

And on and on about who will win.

I would think many of you lovers of British  golf attitude would remember; "Be gracious in victory and defeat, and treat THOSE TWO OLD IMPOSTERS THE SAME"! But in this 'modern' World we cannot.

Once again I will try an anecdote, this one partly about myself [so much for self-effacing]. I once came in second in the US Amatuer of a certain game. Nice, huh? You would think so, but ........ several of my friends came to me with "too bad Doug, you came so close". Second in the whole USA, and 'too bad .....". Tell me it doesn't strike an off cord with you when the team losing the NCAA Basketball Title game is crying, upset, and even angry at themselves?

"Treat those two old imposters the same". Couldn't the young man be happy to have competed for the US Championship. To actually perform quite well there? And more importantly, couldn't WE be happy for that? Obsession is always ugly. I with we wouldn't pass it on.

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

I know many of you are young parents.  Please put your children in positions where they will puke all over themselves and fail.  It makes them better people.  Also throw every damn participation award they receive away before you make it to the car.  The kid choked plain and simple.  He will be a better person for it unless he suddenly becomes your hero for just being there.

[George Pazin]

moved

[Tim Pitner]

Two quotes come to mind:

One by Theodore Roosevelt:  "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

And another by Woody Allen:  "Ninety percent of life is just showing up."

[George Pazin]

And no matter what that kid is told by people who think he should get a participant's ribbon that "he did good, he should be proud of himself" he will know, deep down in his competitive bones, that he fucked up and screwed the pooch with a poor round on sunday.

Well, I was hoping originally you were going to come back at my 1st post by saying you were half-kidding about Hossler puking all over himself. Now I just see that you have no perspective or ability to analyse the situation.

Finishing T29 in one of the world's biggest golf tournaments and having folks say, well done, is not giving a participation ribbon.

Forget the fact that he's 17 - shooting a score that holds up among the top 25 golfers in the world, on a course as difficult as Oympic, in US Open conditions, under late Sunday afternoon pressure, is not puking all over yourself FOR ANYONE.

He didn't pull a snowman on the last hole to lose the Open. He didn't fold after going +3 over the first 6 holes Sunday. He didn't post an 80 or 85 - or even a 78 like Phil or a 77 like the current PGA champion.

You just have a flat out bizarre definition of puke job.

On a side note, if anything it was refreshing to hear someone do an interview where they are actually saying how they feel instead of giving the same old canned/scripted responses.  I mean c'mon, does anyone believe a word that comes out of the mouth of a guy like Tiger or Jim after their rounds?

Why would anyone ever share his true feelings, when the types of responses on this thread are awaiting?

It is especially galling to hear Johnny Miller - MR. I CAN'T KEEP MY THOUGHTS TO MYSELF, EVER, MR. I'M JUST SPEAKING THE TRUTH - calling him out for sharing his goal.

Johnny Freaking Miller. What little respect I had for him as a human being is absolutely gone. Helluva golfer, effin' idiot as a human being. If I ever meet him, I will ask him 2 questions:

How did you shoot a 63 at Oakmont in the US Open?

and

Do you realize just how stupid and thoughtless your comments to Beau Hossler were, late in his round at Olympic?

Hossler didn't blame the course or the setup, as many pros have done over the years. He didn't give a Bull Durham speech (thanks for that, David, well done). He just said he was playing to win, and people have a problem with that.

I know many of you are young parents.  Please put your children in positions where they will puke all over themselves and fail.  It makes them better people.  Also throw every damn participation award they receive away before you make it to the car.  The kid choked plain and simple.  He will be a better person for it unless he suddenly becomes your hero for just being there.

More bizarre definitions of choke. He did what you said, John - he went out, tried hard and failed. Whether he learns from it remains to be seen, but he sure as hell didn't choke. He just didn't win.You don't learn from something by mislabeling it as a choke. You try to figure out what you did wrong and fix it.

Under your and Jed's definitions of choke, damn near every guy out there choked. That completely diminishes to meaning of the word, renders it meaningless in fact. I would have thought a golfer as fine as you would understand the fine line between pars and bogeys and even doubles at the Open.

76 is not a choke. What was the average score for the day? 73? 74? 2 or 3 shots under those conditions is choking?

[JESII]

George,

If and when you get the opportunity to ask JM those questions please promise you'll ask the second one first...otherwise you won't get to it...

[Tim Martin]

And no matter what that kid is told by people who think he should get a participant's ribbon that "he did good, he should be proud of himself" he will know, deep down in his competitive bones, that he fucked up and screwed the pooch with a poor round on sunday.

Well, I was hoping originally you were going to come back at my 1st post by saying you were half-kidding about Hossler puking all over himself. Now I just see that you have no perspective or ability to analyse the situation.

Finishing T29 in one of the world's biggest golf tournaments and having folks say, well done, is not giving a participation ribbon.

Forget the fact that he's 17 - shooting a score that holds up among the top 25 golfers in the world, on a course as difficult as Oympic, in US Open conditions, under late Sunday afternoon pressure, is not puking all over yourself FOR ANYONE.

He didn't pull a snowman on the last hole to lose the Open. He didn't fold after going +3 over the first 6 holes Sunday. He didn't post an 80 or 85 - or even a 78 like Phil or a 77 like the current PGA champion.

You just have a flat out bizarre definition of puke job.

On a side note, if anything it was refreshing to hear someone do an interview where they are actually saying how they feel instead of giving the same old canned/scripted responses.  I mean c'mon, does anyone believe a word that comes out of the mouth of a guy like Tiger or Jim after their rounds?

Why would anyone ever share his true feelings, when the types of responses on this thread are awaiting?

It is especially galling to hear Johnny Miller - MR. I CAN'T KEEP MY THOUGHTS TO MYSELF, EVER, MR. I'M JUST SPEAKING THE TRUTH - calling him out for sharing his goal.

Johnny Freaking Miller. What little respect I had for him as a human being is absolutely gone. Helluva golfer, effin' idiot as a human being. If I ever meet him, I will ask him 2 questions:

How did you shoot a 63 at Oakmont in the US Open?

and

Do you realize just how stupid and thoughtless your comments to Beau Hossler were, late in his round at Olympic?

Hossler didn't blame the course or the setup, as many pros have done over the years. He didn't give a Bull Durham speech (thanks for that, David, well done). He just said he was playing to win, and people have a problem with that.

I know many of you are young parents.  Please put your children in positions where they will puke all over themselves and fail.  It makes them better people.  Also throw every damn participation award they receive away before you make it to the car.  The kid choked plain and simple.  He will be a better person for it unless he suddenly becomes your hero for just being there.

More bizarre definitions of choke. He did what you said, John - he went out, tried hard and failed. Whether he learns from it remains to be seen, but he sure as hell didn't choke. He just didn't win.You don't learn from something by mislabeling it as a choke. You try to figure out what you did wrong and fix it.

Under your and Jed's definitions of choke, damn near every guy out there choked. That completely diminishes to meaning of the word, renders it meaningless in fact. I would have thought a golfer as fine as you would understand the fine line between pars and bogeys and even doubles at the Open.

76 is not a choke. What was the average score for the day? 73? 74? 2 or 3 shots under those conditions is choking?

+1 Great post George.

[John Kavanaugh]

Yes George he and many others choked. He had a huge lead on low am, a lifetime achievement, and blew it. +1 in perfect conditions on a fair course is an opportunity champions dream for. There was one champion, 30 or so chokers and a bunch of guys who never believed they could win. It's one thing to get beat by someone shooting lights out, quite another to turn the lights out on yourself.

[JESII]

No John, even if he said he still wanted to be low amateur, once he switched his goal to winning the tournament he was no longer protecting a lead.

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