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Wade Whitehead

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A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« on: August 18, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »
When the Tell Qaramel was constructed in present-day Syria it was the tallest man-made freestanding structure in the world.  Built in 10,000 B.C., it was 14 feet high.

The Tower of Jericho, constructed two thousand years later, took the title of world's tallest structure, topping out at 28 feet tall.

By 2650 B.C. the first major Egyptian pyramid reached 203 feet; with the completion of the Pyramid of Giza (in 2560 B.C.), the record climbed 481 feet.  This record would stand for more than 3500 years until Lincoln Cathedral's 525-foot spire rose in 1311.

Over the next 700 years, other structures have overtaken one another as the world's tallest.  Notre Dame, the Washington Monument, the Eiffel Tower, the Chrysler Building, the Empire State Building, and the CN Tower have all held the post.  Currently, Burj Khalifa tops the list at just over 2,700 feet.

The existence of Burj Kahlifa doesn't make the Pyramid at Giza less tall, though one dwarfs the other.  They're part of an evolution - a lineage of excellence - that reflects human desire and capacity over time.  Such is the History Of the Highest Freestanding Man-made Structure(s) In the World.

The Old Course hosted its first play in the first half of the fifteenth century.  It was the greatest golf course in the world.

At what point was it replaced, and by what place?  And what replaced that, and when?  What is the History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World?

Any such list would begin with the Old Course and would end with the current "greatest."  Between would be the "greatests," in the contexts of their own times and places.

What courses make up such a list?  The roster might be much shorter than we think, not because there are few great courses, but because there can only be one greatest.

WW
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 10:42:28 PM by Wade Whitehead »

Ian Andrew

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 11:07:19 PM »
It’s a superb question, but unfortunately the answer is subjective and personal.
 
The height of a building can’t be contested because its measured rather than an opinion. Unfortunately the only answer to your question is going to be a subjective opinion from each of us. There won' be a concensous.

I do think this is an interesting topic and worth “an opinion” from those who feel comfortable. My biggest issue is whether to go on “other” people’s opinion of the day, or simply apply my own feelings projected back in time. Either way I’m wrong, but the answer should at least elicit discussion until the decorum inevitably breaks down.

I will need time to think this one through because the 1890's to the 1920's is a tough call.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Wade Whitehead

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2012, 11:09:41 PM »
Ian:

You're right.  Height is measured with a ruler.  Golf courses are measured with other instruments (heart and head, primarily).

I'm hoping someone(s) will take the leap.

WW

Jim Colton

Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 11:18:09 PM »
Definitely an interesting question. One might argue that it has yet to be overtaken!

A timeline of greatest course in the US might have a few more chapters.

Dan King

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 11:39:52 PM »
There is not, and never has been a greatest golf course in the world. Even when you claim St. Andrews was the greatest, you would have gotten plenty of valid arguments from other venues.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
The emblem on the necktie reserved for the members of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews -- The Vatican of golf -- is of St. Andrew himself bearing the slatier cross on which, once he was captured at Patras, he was to be stretched before he was crucified. Only the Scots would have thought of celebrating a national game with the figure of a tortured saint.
 --Alister Cooke

Alex Lagowitz

Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 11:46:18 PM »
I think a more fair comparison is to compare beauty of architectural structures rather than height.
Looking through time, it cannot be determined which is best from historical greats such the Pantheon, Taj Mahal, Parthenon, Sydney Opera House, Bauhaus, whatever building you name it; and for good reason, no one tries to rank the greatest buildings of all time.  Instead, they just appreciate their beauty (and history if applicable) and if anything, they note which are worth seeing.  
No sane person would win an argument based on whether Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater in PA is better than the Hagia Sofia in Turkey.  
Architecture, thus, is not about ranking the best from the worst, but rather appreciating what is there and why.

Peter Pallotta

Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 12:21:29 AM »
Wade - fun to think about, thanks.  Maybe we can't get a consensus, but we do have in writing one man's opinion, i.e. Dr. MacKenzie's.
"I still think the best courses in Scotland, such as the Old Course at St. Andrews, are superior to any in the world...The National and Pine Valley are outstanding..."  In short, it's still The Old Course that holds the championship belt, but NGLA and Pine Valley are close behind. Once something in America topples PV off its perch, we can talk.... :)

Peter

Mark Bourgeois

Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 08:03:49 AM »
Up to 1930: TOC
1931-1958: RM West
1959-2011: RM Composite
2012 - end of days: Trump International Golf Links Scotland

That was too easy. Is this some sort of trick question?

Mac Plumart

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 09:21:09 AM »
I agree with Jim's idea that it may still reign supreme.  It does in my mind, at least.

However, Pine Valley seems to sit a top all lists.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mark Pritchett

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2012, 09:27:50 AM »

However, Pine Valley seems to sit a top all lists.

Not Golf Digest's! 

Mac Plumart

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2012, 09:36:25 AM »
What course tops their list, Mark?

 8)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2012, 09:46:59 AM »
Give it a year. Micro-movements at the top have been selected an editorial priority by the marketing department (along with coming up with at least one new list per fiscal quarter).

Bart Bradley

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2012, 01:24:59 PM »
Wade:

This is a great thread idea.  But I agree with others that the analogy just doesn't quite compare.  One idea is concrete and the other ethereal...one is measureable and the other an opinion.

The problem with opinion is that it is subject to the vagaries of the times.  Crystal Downs, National Golf Links, and other courses weren't considered great just 30 years ago by the cognescenti.  We now look back and scoff.  But perhaps, 30 years from now the folks talking about GCA will think the people on this board were missing the boat entirely.

I don't think the list, if you were to make one up, is very long.  Nearly everyone picks something old as the best course ever.

Bart


Wade Whitehead

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2012, 04:12:10 PM »
Bart:

I was actually hoping to draw an important line between a list of great buildings, for example, and great golf courses.  Man can always figure out a way to build a taller building, but I'm not convinced we've created better golf courses (in general) as time goes on.

I'm also interested in exposing, if possible, some of the real-time bias you point out.  We think we know what we're talking about.

The list would be surprisingly short (only one course for some), which is why I'm interested.  Almost nobody will take the bait, though.

WW

Mac Plumart

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 05:29:00 PM »
I am still unsure precisely what you are looking for Wade.  But here is some information...

Golf Magazine Top 100 in the World list #1's...

1983...Muirfield
1985-present...Pine Valley



Courses currently rated higher than The Old Course...

Pine Valley,
Cypress Point,
Augusta National
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Wade Whitehead

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2012, 06:52:56 PM »
Mac:

I'm looking for an entirely subjective list.

The Old Course was the greatest course in the world when it was built.  At what point was it dethroned (if it was)?  And when was its successor replaced as the greatest?

This is an entirely personal exercise, independent of any rating or official ranking.

WW

Dan King

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2012, 07:47:39 PM »
Wade Whitehead writes:
The Old Course was the greatest course in the world when it was built.  At what point was it dethroned (if it was)?  And when was its successor replaced as the greatest?

First step might be coming up with when the Old Course was built. When would that be?

This is an entirely personal exercise, independent of any rating or official ranking.

That's going to make it even tougher. Where are you going to find someone who has played many of the great courses in the world and is also a few hundred years old?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
Sir Guy Campbell's classic account of the formation of the links, beginning with Genesis and moving step by step to the thrilling arrival of 'tilth' on the fingers of coastal land, suggests that such notable features of our planet as dinosaurs, the prairies, the Himalayas, the seagull, the female of the species herself, were accidental by-products of the Almighty's preoccupation with the creation of the Old Course at St. Andrews.
 --Alister Cooke

JMEvensky

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Re: A History Of the Greatest Golf Course(s) In the World
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 09:38:18 AM »


That's going to make it even tougher. Where are you going to find someone who has played many of the great courses in the world and is also a few hundred years old?



You can find him on this website--Pat Mucci.

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