[Jason Topp]

Many courses have designated combination or mixed tees designated on their scorecards.  I rarely play them and find that I generally dislike the way that the tees are allocated.  Short holes are played from back tees and long holes are played from forward tees resulting in a course that has less variety than it does from one set of tees. 

As a general rule, I would prefer that the par threes and fives play from the forward tees and the fours play from the back tees unless there is a carry hazard that dictates otherwise.  In any event, I would like to see the tees designated to maximize the architecture rather than ensure that everyone has a chance to reach every green in regulation.

Do you agree?  Do you have examples of courses that have done either a good or poor job of designating mixed tees?

[David_Tepper]

The club I play at has "combo" tees that use the white tees on holes handicapped 1 thru 9 and the blues tees on holes handicapped 10 thru 18. Personally, I like the idea of being able to reach more of the par-4's in two.  

[Bill Seitz]

Jason,

I actually like the idea of rating a set of mixed tees.  If you play one course quite often, it can add some variety, and I like the idea of having a number of different 18 hole yardages for people to choose.  We have a "members" set of tees at Kingsley, and I think it's a pretty good mix, though I agree that it tends fall along "long hole - blue; short hole - gold".  I'm actually surprised more courses don't do it, since I would assume the costs associated with doing so would be minimal.  I'm not sure what is required for the USGA to come out and rate a set of tees.

One course that (as of my last visit) did not have a mixed set of tees, but which I thought desperately needed it was the Trophy Club northwest of Indianapolis. It's a great golf course, but it plays 7,317 - 75.3/138 from the tips,  6,580 - 72.1/130 from the blues, and 6,006 - 69.4/124 from the whites.  I felt it was a little too short from the blue tees, but too long from the tips.  Something right around 6,900 yards +/- would have been perfect, and they can put that together without building a new set of tees.  

[Jason Topp]

I like the idea of creating a set of combo tees but feel that courses do not put enough thought into determining which holes should use the forward tee and which holes should use the back tee.  

[Sean_A]

I like the idea of creating a set of combo tees but feel that courses do not put enough thought into determining which holes should use the forward tee and which holes should use the back tee.  

Why don't you play which tees you like depending on your mood, the weather etc?  I often play friendlies where the guy who has the honour chooses the tee.  I usually plop for the shortest walk.

Ciao

[Jason Topp]

I like the idea of creating a set of combo tees but feel that courses do not put enough thought into determining which holes should use the forward tee and which holes should use the back tee.  

Why don't you play which tees you like depending on your mood, the weather etc?  I often play friendlies where the guy who has the honour chooses the tee.  I usually plop for the shortest walk.

Ciao

That is always an option but not a normal approach among people I play with.  In part, one should post a score for handicap purposes and a combo tee is already rated for that purpose.

[Dan King]

Jason Topp writes:
That is always an option but not a normal approach among people I play with.  In part, one should post a score for handicap purposes and a combo tee is already rated for that purpose.

I was going to post the same as Sean.  Is the silly handicapping scheme in America the only thing keeping people from playing which ever tee suits their mood? 

I don't really understand why anyone would wish a course can do something they can just do on their own. Stop posting every score. It was a huge mistake by the USGA, but that doesn't mean you must continue with their error.

Cheers,
Dan King

I have an insane desire to shave a stroke or two off my handicap.
 --Alister Cooke (on why he was retiring from Masterpiece Theater)

[Tommy Williamsen]

My club used to have a mixed tee configuration.  They did away with it and just put out a new set of tees.  I joined Ballyhack last fall and when I play it I jump around to different tees.  I generally like to play the par threes and fives from the back tees. Some of the longer fours I will move up a bit.  Seems like I do the opposite from Jason.

[Jason Topp]

My club used to have a mixed tee configuration.  They did away with it and just put out a new set of tees.  I joined Ballyhack last fall and when I play it I jump around to different tees.  I generally like to play the par threes and fives from the back tees. Some of the longer fours I will move up a bit.  Seems like I do the opposite from Jason.

Interesting.  This conversation got a bit off the rails due to the handicapping situation but perhaps the better question is if you choose tees, how would you go about making the decision?  I think many courses (especially modern courses) hide too much yardage into par threes so I prefer moving up on those.  On par fives, I like the chance to reach the green or be aggressive in some fashion so I would rather move up on those.  On par fours, some short tees allow agressive play whereas some back tees make for more interesting par 4-1/2s. 

[Garland Bayley]

Jason and Dan,

The USGA provides an adjustment mechanism so you can post no matter what set of tees you play. Just use the handicap manual to compute the adjusted rating and slope and post using it, instead of a designated set of tees.

[Dan King]

Garland Bayley writes:
The USGA provides an adjustment mechanism so you can post no matter what set of tees you play. Just us the handicap manual to compute the adjusted rating and slope and put using it, instead of a designated set of tees.

Or even better, don't bother.

I understand the reasons for handicaps, and I'm not opposed to the whole concept. I just think it is very goofy of the USGA to insist they need every possible score to do handicaps. Handicaps should be calculated using scores that are played in medal tournament conditions when the golfers are playing by the rules and when their primary goal is to score the lowest score.  To assume every round is played in this way is being silly.

I think the USGA handicap scheme is important to this discussion. If that is all that is keeping people from playing the course in the way they want (as long as it doesn't effect others on the course) then once again we have the USGA getting in the way of people enjoying golf. I hope that isn't part of its mission.

Cheers,
Dan King

Goldfinger came up. His face was glistening with triumph. 'Well, thanks for the game. Seems I was just too good for you after all.' 'You're a good nine handicap,' said Bond with suufficient sourness. He glanced at the balls in his hand to pick out Goldfinger's and hand it to him. He gave a start of surprise. 'Hullo!' he looked sharply at Goldfinger. "You play a Number One Dunlop don't you?'
 --Ian Fleming, Goldfinger

[Kalen Braley]

Garland Bayley writes:
The USGA provides an adjustment mechanism so you can post no matter what set of tees you play. Just us the handicap manual to compute the adjusted rating and slope and put using it, instead of a designated set of tees.

Or even better, don't bother.

I understand the reasons for handicaps, and I'm not opposed to the whole concept. I just think it is very goofy of the USGA to insist they need every possible score to do handicaps. Handicaps should be calculated using scores that are played in medal tournament conditions when the golfers playing are playing by the rules and when their primary goal is to score the lowest score.  To assume every round is played in this way is being silly.

I think the USGA handicap scheme is important to this discussion. If that is all that is keeping people from playing the course in the way they want (as long as it doesn't effect others on the course) then once again we have the USGA getting in the way of people enjoying golf. I hope that isn't part of its mission.

Cheers,
Dan King

Goldfinger came up. His face was glistening with triumph. 'Well, thanks for the game. Seems I was just too good for you after all.' 'You're a good nine handicap,' said Bond with suufficient sourness. He glanced at the balls in his hand to pick out Goldfinger's and hand it to him. He gave a start of surprise. 'Hullo!' he looked sharply at Goldfinger. "You play a Number One Dunlop don't you?'
 --Ian Fleming, Goldfinger

Dan,

I couldn't agree more!!

By going to a system like this, it would speed up casual rounds a ton for those very reasons.

And it would also eliminate "that guy" at the tournament who is a 14 <wink, wink> and then shoots 75, 76 over the weekend to take low net for the tourney.  We had one of these guys at the last tournie I played in, and the director even knew he was a sand bagger, and still didn't boot him out.  He was a "5" who shot 68, 67.

[Carl Johnson]

Jason, I think my course (Carolina GC in Charlotte) has excellent sets of mixed tees.  From long to short (back to front), our tees are black, blue, white and green.  On the score card we also have a mixed black-blue set.  We also have mixed blue-white and white-green.  The latter two are not printed on the card, but they are sloped and rated and a tee listing is available in the pro shop for anyone who wants it.  I think the blue-white and white-green are particularly good because I set them up.    (Of course, not everyone agrees!   ) The principal objective was to move tees up on holes that had carry problems off the tees for the (relatively) shorter hitters.  In my limited experience, I believe the black-blue and blue-white combinations are used quite a bit.  The green-white are used by 20+ handicappers in senior inter-club league play, and possibly from time to time by older seniors who are shorter hitters.  I am talking about the men here.  I am not sure what use the women make of the combination tees, if any.  Here are the distances, ratings and slopes for all tees for men (par is 71 for all tees - four 3s and three 5s).  However, keep in mind that the selection of the tee combinations had more to do with "carry issues" rather than total length, rating or slope, per se.

Black: 7,011; 73.2; 139
Black/Blue: 6,703; 72.0; 134
Blue: 6,453; 71.0; 132
Blue/White: 6,169; 69.2; 130
White: 5,891; 68.4; 125
White/Green: 5,587; 66.8; 121
Green: 5,253; 65.5; 115

[Howard Riefs]

Erin Hills actually has two sets of mixed tees:

White/Red:     5,889
White (6,423)
Red (5,123)

Blue/Green:    6,990
Blue (7,234)
Green (6,756)

While they achieve their purpose in providing a good mix of additional teeing options and various distances to play the course. I still believe EH can use a set of tees at 6,200 for the recreational golfer that will want to play a U.S. Open course but refuses to play from sub-6,000 yards. I'm not holding my breath though.

http://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_score_card_2.aspx

[Ben Kodadek]

Jason,

I don't care for the idea of mixed tees, but I feel as though on many courses the yardage of 6500-6600 often is overlooked.  A majority of guys I play with seek out this length of course.  Long enough for the big hitters to have a challenge or two and not too daunting for a 12-16 hcp.   

[jeffwarne]

Is there a vomit emoticon?


If you insist on mixed tees, just pick them yourself.
If you insist on a course rating from your mixed tees, just average the two tees you mixed and post as an away score.

[Jason Topp]

Is there a vomit emoticon?


If you insist on mixed tees, just pick them yourself.
If you insist on a course rating from your mixed tees, just average the two tees you mixed and post as an away score.

Jeff:

Did you read my posts?  The point I was trying to get to was if you are going to mix and match, how do you decide?  I suggest playing 3's ad 5's short and 4's long.  Tepper suggests the opposite.

[jeffwarne]

Is there a vomit emoticon?


If you insist on mixed tees, just pick them yourself.
If you insist on a course rating from your mixed tees, just average the two tees you mixed and post as an away score.

Jeff:

Did you read my posts?  The point I was trying to get to was if you are going to mix and match, how do you decide?  I suggest playing 3's ad 5's short and 4's long.  Tepper suggests the opposite.

I hadn't, but now I have.
Sean's got it right.
Play where you want-figure it out for course rating/slope

every member I speak to has a different opinion about what combos/# of tees we should have.
that's fine, play where you want-leave me (the pro) out of the equation as far as you posting your score and don't make up a card with 12 different combos

[Tim Martin]

Is there a vomit emoticon?


If you insist on mixed tees, just pick them yourself.
If you insist on a course rating from your mixed tees, just average the two tees you mixed and post as an away score.

Jeff:

Did you read my posts?  The point I was trying to get to was if you are going to mix and match, how do you decide?  I suggest playing 3's ad 5's short and 4's long.  Tepper suggests the opposite.

Jason-I think the par threes and fives take the biggest hit as far as integrity of the hole. We have often played the threes and fives back with the fours from the member tees. The yardage often falls between 6300 and 6600. It is tougher to get it right when there are in excess of three sets of tees.  

[Garland Bayley]

If you are going to mix tees, why not simply pick a set that allows you to play at the most variety of distances? Tom D and I have both put forward course ideas based on that in the past.

[Carl Johnson]

If you are going to mix tees, why not simply pick a set that allows you to play at the most variety of distances? Tom D and I have both put forward course ideas based on that in the past.

Why not pick a set that you enjoy "playing" the most, or, for variety, changing it up from time to time?

My view is that there is nothing God given about any particular set of tees being the "best" tees or the "right" tees for everyone to play.  For competitions and handicapping, standards are necessary.  Otherwise, it does not matter.

[Tim Bert]

If you are playing a course with a good variety of tees that you've played many times, I recommend any of the following methods:

1. Walk up to the tee and pick the one that looks fun

2. Have each member of the foursome pick the tee on four holes and draw the others out of a hat

3. Draw all 18 tees out of a hat

4. Start at your normal tee. Every time you make par or better move back a set. Every time you make bogey or worse move up (or adjust the par/bogey in the suggestion to suit your game).

5. Play the long holes longer and the short holes shorter.

6. Play someone better than you (or worse) and try to handicap your match using tees or equipment instead of strokes. 

7. Ask the architect or superintendent for their favorite tee on each hole and play that mix.

8. Don't forget to occasionally play the actual sets of tees.  Make sure you play each set at least once over time.

[Jud_T]

Tim,

You forgot to mention that you bring your handicap computer with you which calculates the rating and slope from an infinite possible combination of tees so that you can post each round properly....

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