News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lester George - High Vista CC (Arden, NC)
« on: June 09, 2012, 09:54:48 PM »
High Vista is a great little club tucked away about 12-15 miles from downtown Asheville. I have played there many times over the years and enjoy the course...and the group that I play with there (when I'm in town) very much. It's one of the friendliest places I've ever visited, and as much fun to play as anywhere I've ever been. Situated almost 500 feet above the valley floor, and with sweeping views of the Balsam Range and Smoky Mountains, it possess the most spectacular view from a cluhouse anywhere west of Colorado.
Originally designed by Tom Jackson in the mid-70's, High Vista is, in my mind, the prototypical mountain golf course. It has several greens that are less than 20 feet wide but often between 75-150 feet in length!!. The ninth and eighteenth holes are as severe uphill approach shots as you will ever find. My Bushnell read 109 yards for my approach to #9 this morning, but I had to hit a pretty good 9-Iron (my 145 yrd club) to get it to the flag. The severe undulations and quirkiness of many of the holes might turn some off...but it really gives an opportunity to use one's imagination...especially when it is playing firm and fast. The par 5's are all reachable for the better player...but the severity of the terrain guarantees disaster for a poorly hit shot. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I always enjoy it tremendously and it's worth checking out if you're ever in the area.

Which brings me to Lester George...about 15 years ago the club built a new clubhouse and 5 new holes. I was never a huge fan of the new holes...but on my trip home this week I made it back out there and, with some investment by the new management company, and different maintenance practices, I have a different perspective altogether.
The place looks wonderful since they took over, period...but the real potential standout, in my opinion, is the par-5 13th. I don't know if it was ever intended, but it has become an alternate fairway hole. The traditional route requires a forced carry of about 245 yeards from the back tees to a faiway that is diagonally slanted right to left and away from the tee, with the extreme left side of the fairway requiring a poke of about 265-70 to carry the junk. A good tee shot will require a 230-250 yard shot to get home in two-with hazard all the way down the left side. Or, the player may hit an iron back over the same hazard to a fairway left of but facing the green. What you can't see from the "traditional" fairway is that the green slopes significantly away from the fairway and it is extremely difficult to hold the green from 230-250 yards...while the green sets up perfectly for a wedge from the "second" faiway. Back at the tee however, if you are really feeling good about your swing and want to have a much shorter second-shot, you can ignore the "traditional" fairway and look left. If you can thread a well-hit driver over a tree and between OB left and the hazard right (the same one that must be carried to the traditional fairway) you will be richly rewarded. If you can hit this "alternate" fairway, you could possibly be left with as little as 170 yards to the green - plus you have much the same receptive angle that the lay-up player does from the traditional fairway The only drawback is that the shot is almost completely blind. For many years, the club maintained this alternate route as thick rough, but are now seriously contemplating mowing it down to fairway length, especially since few ladies can handle the forced carry. It is unbelievably fun to play and one of the most "heroic" tee shots of my experience.
The thing that really blows my mind is the 10th green. The hole is a very attractive "drop-shot" type par-3 of about 200 yards from the tips...but has the most severe green I have seen in a lifetime of golf. The back to front tilt of this green is so severe as to almost guarantee a 3-putt if you hit your shot any distance above the hole. I hit my tee shot pin high this morning, six feet from the hole....and had to turn 180 degrees so that my chest was facing the cup -to putt. It has always been a source of fascination for me that anyone could have built a green so severe for any demographic, let alone a strictly country-club set. In short, the construction of this green borders on the criminal. I always marvel at the green when I play there, and after I inevitably 3-4 putt, I always ask how the hell the green wound up like that. Today, a former board member told me that the architect was some guy named Lester George! I couldn't believe it, I drove straight home and looked at his website, and sure enough, he lists 5 new holes at High Vista among his body of work. As they have matured, the 5 holes have really turned into something special, but #10 and #12 greens (Today I hit a 10 footer 3 feet past the hole on #12 and it fell in backwards for birdie-on the flattest part of the green).
If you see your name and read this Lester, I respect your work there at HV, and I'm excited to see how those 5 holes, with better maintenance and some TLC, will look in a few years, but I'm just curious how #10 (and #12 to a lesser extent) would up with such a spectacularly unplayable green?

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lester George - High Vista CC (Arden, NC)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 02:31:20 PM »
Kevin,

HV has some interest.  It certainly has the narrowest set of greens I've seen.

I seem to remember hitting the left "fairway" on 13 - it needs extending badly - and hitting the green with a 5-iron out of the rough for a two-putt birdie.  I don't remember that par-3 being as severe as you describe it?

Cheers


Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lester George - High Vista CC (Arden, NC)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 10:04:00 AM »
Will,

It is a great looking hole, and it's entirely possible that you hit it close enough to the hole that it was not an issue-although in my experience any put of ANY length is a potential landmine there. There are a handful of hole locations, particularly on the left side, that are not quite as severe....but overall the green is severly sloped from back to front, especially on the right side.
I can't believe that the architect intended it or #12 to be so severe. I'm guessing that the real culprit is whomever actually built it.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lester George - High Vista CC (Arden, NC)
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 05:50:03 PM »
I usually don't respond to many of these types of threads because there is no benefit to debating golf holes someone doesn't like.  Players that play well on your courses (or individual holes) like them, players who don't play well on your courses (or individual holes) don't like them.  Simple as that most of the time. 

Pretty sure I get alot of the credit for building the five new holes.  What I don't know is how they have been maintained or managed over the past years as I have never been back since the developer did not pay my fee.  The club is full of nice people, but the developer was a less than reputable (wish I had known in advance) character.  I am not fond of my memorires of getting almost screwed out of nearly six figures either.  Fortunately, a third party to the deal, sent my money after about three years.

I remember the club being upset at the contractor for grow-in of some portions of the new five holes, but on futher investigation, the club dropped the ball and eventually took responsibility.  I also don't recall the greens on those (or any of my five) being that severe.  I do remember trying to reproduce similar contours (but not green shapes) to those on the Jackson holes.  One thing I will tell you, the five holes I was asked to replace were easily the worst five holes I have ever seen on one golf course.  Mr. Jackson (who I admire) should have demanded more land than build those holes.  So bad someone was killed (or mamed severely) mowing one of them.  Thats why the club knew they had to do something and entered an agreement with a developer to purchase additional land and fix them.

Sorry if you don't like them.  They ARE positively better than the originals.  I did put in the alternate fairway you mentioned.  I am glad you told me a management company is taking care of it and it is looking good.   



Lester

Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lester George - High Vista CC (Arden, NC) New
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 10:54:07 PM »
Lester,

Please don't misunderstand, I went out of my way to compliment the five holes you built....there is no question that your work there is a HUGE improvement over the old holes. As they have matured, the holes have actually turned out, architecturally, to be the best of the 18. The 12th and, now that it is being properly maintained, the par-5 13th (with the alternate fairway) are wonderful holes that I always look forward to playing.
Far from not liking your work there Lester, I love going back there to play. The 10th green is, for better or worse, however, one of the most severely sloped greens I've ever played.....and I was simply curious how it got that way....I have always been aware of the issues that confronted the club around the time that you were associated with it. None of what you mentioned surprises me in the least. I half expected you to say that someone else got carried away shaping #10 green after your association ended and you might never have seen the finished product.
The course, and especially your holes, really looked good when I played there last month. I hope someday you can get back to see them, they're quite good.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 11:04:53 PM by Kevin Robinson »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back