13th at Olympic

[Lance Rieber]

It sounds like the player think he USGA screwed this one up. From what I have seen on tv they might be correct. If you hit the green and the ball feeds off into the water, not sure if that is a great idea to mow that area left so short. Phil and bubba are really blasting this thing in their media sessions. Those of you in the know, is it as hard as they say?  They made  it sound  like if you missed it right of the green you couldn't keep it on and it would roll into the canal. Anybody on sight have a little more insight?

[Matt_Cohn]

Maybe? The wind there is right to left, and it's already tough because if you push one out a bit too far to the right there are tall trees over there - they shouldn't be in play for the pros, but it wouldn't be a surprise if a couple of guys hit them during the week. I'd say if balls roll of the green there, fine. If they actually roll into the water...I think that would be not good.

[Joel_Stewart]

The hole is 199 yards.  I've played that hole 100 times and never hit it into the water much less OB.  Phil and Bubba are probably going to be hitting 7 and 8 irons there.

I'm not sure but they also may allow crowds there so they could block the ball?

I think there are far harder shots at Olympic.

[David_Tepper]

"I'm not sure but they also may allow crowds there so they could block the ball?"

Joel S. -

Based on what I saw yesterday, there will be no spectators allowed at all on the right side of the 13th green. In fact, the area down the slope of the right side of that green is not really visible to spectators standing on the left side of the green or sitting in the grandstand behind the green.

It is hard to see or know just how far down the slope the chipping area goes and how much rough there is between the chipping area and the canal/drainage channel.

I saw both Davis Love and Brian Harman attempt to play recovery shots from that area yesterday and neither of them got the ball on the green with their 1st attempt.

DT   

[Lance Rieber]

Joel, they made it sound like you could be 10 feet or more on the green and it may roll off and into the water. How much slope is on the left side of the green?

[Terry Lavin]

I watched the coverage on GC yesterday which featured Phil's comments.  His best line said if a guy hit it down the left slope to the creek, he'd face an uphill shot with trees in the way and a likely one-way ticket to Hartford.   

It does look like a gimmicky setup when evaluating the tv views and the player commentary.  In some ways it's reminiscent of the short par 5 debacle at Pebble Beach in the Open, so one hopes that nobody in contention winds up losing the championship because of this seemingly wrongheaded decision.

[David_Tepper]

Lance -

There is not that much slope at all on the left side of the green. I cannot imagine a ball landing on the green 10 feet from the left edge of the green rolling off the green, unless it has an excessive amount of hook spin. A ball landing within 2 or 3 feet of the left edge  might be in danger, but that would be about it.

On the other hand, a ball missing the green left could be in big trouble.

DT  

[Matthew Petersen]

Solution: Don't hit it over there.

If the water hazard was bulkheaded hard against the left side of the green, no one would bitch and moan.

[Tom_Doak]

I think that these "chipping areas" which take the ball away from the green toward water are an awful idea.  I had a bad feeling years ago when Augusta National started shaving the bank in front of the 15th green, and it's just gotten steadily worse from there.  There will be another prominent one this fall on the 12th at Medinah for the Ryder Cup.

I honestly don't remember the "canal" on the 13th at Olympic at all ... in fact, I remember using the course in the list of examples of great courses without a water hazard.

[Matthew Rose]

Someone have a photo or something?

I've never had a recollection of water being in play.

[David_Tepper]

Matthew -

There is a drainage canal (that some times has an inch or two of water in it) that runs along the left side of 13th & 14 holes of the Lake Course. Under normal circumstances, you have to hit a pretty good pull hook to reach it. You would not consider it to be "in play."

Here is a picture of #13 taken from behind the green. The canal is behind the tree line on the left side of the picture.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2012-06/photos-olympic-club#slide=13

DT

[Matthew Rose]

So it's hidden essentially. So the USGA has mowed it closely there?

[David_Tepper]

Matthew -

Yes, the USGA has mowed the area on the left side of the green (looking from the tee) that slopes down to the drainage canal to chipping height. I presume they have left a buffer zone of rough between the chipping area and the canal, but I do not know how wide that zone is (or if it is there at all).

Unless I am mistaken, that canal is so far out of play that it is not even marked as a lateral hazard for member play.

DT

[jeffwarne]

I think that these "chipping areas" which take the ball away from the green toward water are an awful idea.  I had a bad feeling years ago when Augusta National started shaving the bank in front of the 15th green, and it's just gotten steadily worse from there.  There will be another prominent one this fall on the 12th at Medinah for the Ryder Cup.

I honestly don't remember the "canal" on the 13th at Olympic at all ... in fact, I remember using the course in the list of examples of great courses without a water hazard.

+1

If they really want to "protect par" require players to use equipment that doesn't reduce course setups to such absurd levels.
The players will do just fine however.

I did get a kick out of Bubba looking for some commiseration from the press corps at his press conference complaining about having to hit a 4 iron to a par 4 (to an audience of players that would kill to get to have ANY iron to a par 4 at any course)

[Lance Rieber]

Those of you that are there or have knowledge, does the 17th look as silly as it did on tv last night?  Did they just shave everything from 50 yards in?  They were reporting from there and it looked ridiculous.  Could a ball miss short and right, which isn't bad if the pin is left, and roll past the gallery way to the right?  The slope on that hole is so severe where does the ball stop. It seems like a silly set up. I like fringe cuts when the slopes are designed with them in mind but shaving just for the sake of it seems strange, especially on that hole. You have 3-4 inch rough on each side of the fairway then it just stops and they shave it to 10 on the stimp meter. Tell me the slope isn't so extreme and it will be playable.

[Joel_Stewart]

I honestly don't remember the "canal" on the 13th at Olympic at all ... in fact, I remember using the course in the list of examples of great courses without a water hazard.

I don't think the water canal is on the course property.  It's way - way over there.  They must have done an amazing amount of work to clear and smooth that amount of property that a ball would roll that far.    The other thing is there use to be a chain link fence that boardered the property.  Dave Tepper, did they remove the fence?

[Kalen Braley]

Here's what it looks like from the street view on Google Maps.  Looks like the chain link fence is indeed gone!!

[Kalen Braley]

Here's another aerial view where the ditch can be seen....

[Mike Benham]

Lance -

Yes, the area short right of 17 is at fairway height including around the bunkers, probably within 25 yard short of the green. (there is not gallery allowed on the right side of 17 and left of 18 tee).

Love it or not, I think Mike Davis has set the hole up for risk / reward, with the risk not being a penalty, like a lake or hazard but leaving a shot the requires a tremendous amount of skill to recover from (and with a chance to make a birdie if the golfer went for the green in two).

The hole is 522 yards and the safe play is to make a 3-shot hole.  The rough is not gnarly enough where it won't prevent the golfer from hitting a second shot that leaves the 3rd shot anywhere from 75-125 yards, a shot that the golfers at this level should not have a problem with.

Mike

[Sam Morrow]

I thought there were no water hazards at Olympic, heck that was a headline in one of the magazines even.

[Kevin_Reilly]

A computer graphic on the Golf Channel last night made the canal look like Rae's Creek.  I can't recall ever thinking about water on that tee even a as a perpetual snap-hooker.  To bring that canal into play they would have had to do a lot of clearing (which may in fact be the case...I do not know).

In any event, Johnny will surely be recommending a "hold off fade" or mention Nicklaus or Lema or something on that tee.  Definitely not a time for a "trap draw".

[Sam Morrow]

A computer graphic on the Golf Channel last night made the canal look like Rae's Creek.  I can't recall ever thinking about water on that tee even a as a perpetual snap-hooker.  To bring that canal into play they would have had to do a lot of clearing (which may in fact be the case...I do not know).

In any event, Johnny will surely be recommending a "hold off fade" or mention Nicklaus or Lema or something on that tee.  Definitely not a time for a "trap draw".

"When I was playing here we never thought about the water, you have to really choke to hit it over there."

[jeffwarne]

After "continued "cuts and rolls", it got too fast"

Mike Davis on the shaved area left of the green on 13 and balls rolling into the hazard

no shit-that's what cutting and rolling does

If they jumped over to SFGC, simply played the back tees,and had no time for a USGA setup staff and years of preparation, would they get a "fluke" winner?

[Matthew Rose]

Have they marked it with red stakes?

Otherwise I could see some nightmare ruling happening.

[Mike Benham]

If they jumped over to SFGC, simply played the back tees,and had no time for a USGA setup staff and years of preparation, would they get a "fluke" winner?

Yes they would, with a winning score of 18 under par ...