How would you present a thorough examination to the best golfers in the world ?

[Phil McDade]

Dan:

The USGA has  a long history of "defending par" at the U.S. Open, and in doing so it has produced champions such as Jones, Hogan, and Nicklaus (4-time winners), Tiger (3-time winner), Trevino, Casper and Boros (2-time winners). Were they lucky?

[Doug Siebert]

So it's a simple as picking a good course and letting them have at it.  Tricking it up probabally defeats the goal as luck can become more  important than skill in identifying e best golfer.  When good shots are not rewarded because of conditions you are doing more harm than good.

Dan

So they should play Olympic in the same condition the members play it?  Don't lengthen holes, don't narrow fairways, don't firm up the greens?  Then it becomes a question of who is the best wedge player.

I don't like seeing them go crazy with narrow fairways and long rough to the point where the rough practically plays as a 1/2 stroke penalty lateral hazard.  But while I have nothing against birdies or under par results, I don't want to watch guys throwing darts at the greens.

I think the setup at Olympic is pretty reasonable.  The rough is deep, but its dry so you can still play out of - but can't hit the type of shot you'd be able to play out of 3" rough.  The shaved areas aren't done to an extreme, and it is up to the player how safe or bold they want to play where those areas come into play.  The fairways are narrow but the holes are short enough that leaving your driver in the bag is definitely a good option.  The greens played firm but not overly firm, and while they were quick they didn't look to be quite US Open speed to my eye (but then again, it is only Thursday)

[Dan Byrnes]

Dan:

The USGA has  a long history of "defending par" at the U.S. Open, and in doing so it has produced champions such as Jones, Hogan, and Nicklaus (4-time winners), Tiger (3-time winner), Trevino, Casper and Boros (2-time winners). Were they lucky?

I wouldn't say that.  However there are plenty of others who don't hold a candle to those names.  I am more concerned with those.  My point is by tricking up past US Open courses is more likely to produce an exception to the names above.

Dan

[Dan Byrnes]

So it's a simple as picking a good course and letting them have at it.  Tricking it up probabally defeats the goal as luck can become more  important than skill in identifying e best golfer.  When good shots are not rewarded because of conditions you are doing more harm than good.

Dan

So they should play Olympic in the same condition the members play it?  Don't lengthen holes, don't narrow fairways, don't firm up the greens?  Then it becomes a question of who is the best wedge player.

I don't like seeing them go crazy with narrow fairways and long rough to the point where the rough practically plays as a 1/2 stroke penalty lateral hazard.  But while I have nothing against birdies or under par results, I don't want to watch guys throwing darts at the greens.

I think the setup at Olympic is pretty reasonable.  The rough is deep, but its dry so you can still play out of - but can't hit the type of shot you'd be able to play out of 3" rough.  The shaved areas aren't done to an extreme, and it is up to the player how safe or bold they want to play where those areas come into play.  The fairways are narrow but the holes are short enough that leaving your driver in the bag is definitely a good option.  The greens played firm but not overly firm, and while they were quick they didn't look to be quite US Open speed to my eye (but then again, it is only Thursday)

I think it's fine to toughen it up beyond member play but to try and eliminate the power in the game today is not going to necessarily determine the best golfer?  If you change how the course was designed to play so they don't shoot 20 under doesn't correlate necessarily with the intended goal of identifying the best golfer.

Not saying Olympic is set up poorly but certainly in the past there have been some issues that  threaded the funneling of too tricked up? 

Dan

[Matthew Essig]

You could be insane and have water in play at sometime on every hole...

[Patrick_Mucci]

What about a par five (5) that takes three (3) full shots.

Would it have to be 750 ?

[Jud_T]

Pat,

good question.  I wonder why they're not playing 16 all the way back every day.  They finally have a 3 shot hole that is causing fits to some of the guys, yet they feel compelled to make it reachable on some days. 

[Jason Thurman]

What about a par five (5) that takes three (3) full shots.

Would it have to be 750 ?

You'll see a 750 yard par 5 in a few years at Erin Hills, and we'll see if the guys need three full swings then. If it's fast and firm, someone will hit a punch wedge. It just won't be David Toms.

Honestly, I think the setup at Olympic is about perfect. The leaderboard shows this. I'm not a big proponent of looking for how many of the World Top 20 are around the top of the board, but the fact that so many different types of players are near the top shows the course isn't discriminating against any particular skillset. Tiger's fabulous ballstriking, Furyk's great short game, and Toms' accuracy and putting are all playing to a dead heat so far. I watched most of Tiger and Toms' rounds yesterday, and felt they both had to use their full arsenal, including a healthy dose of their mental game.

[Doug Siebert]

Patrick,

What is being examined with a par 5 that requires three full shots that isn't being examined by Olympic's 16th?  I think we can agree this hole requires three shots from everybody from the 670 tees.  While long hitters may have a half wedge for their third if they go full out with their first two shots, others may choose to play an iron for position with their second and leave a full short iron third.

A hole that basically required a full driver, full 3W, then a full middle iron may be fun to watch from the standpoint of making the pros squirm, but in the end it'll just be very hard, requiring two consecutive shots in the fairway, as hitting in the rough would probably leave you unable to reach the green in three.